§10.9#3ἢ καθάπερ ἐπὶ τῶν ἄλλων, παρὰ τῶν πολιτικῶν;
, as in the other cases, from the politicians?
μόριον γὰρ ἐδόκει τῆς πολιτικῆς εἶναι.
For it seemed to be a part of political science.
ἢ οὐχ ὅμοιον φαίνεται ἐπὶ τῆς πολιτικῆς καὶ τῶν λοιπῶν ἐπιστημῶν τε καὶ δυνάμεων;
Or does the case of political science not appear similar to that of the other sciences and capacities?
ἐν μὲν γὰρ ταῖς ἄλλαις οἱ αὐτοὶ φαίνονται τάς τε δυνάμεις παραδιδόντες καὶ ἐνεργοῦντες ἀπʼ αὐτῶν, οἷον ἰατροὶ γραφεῖς· τὰ δὲ πολιτικὰ ἐπαγγέλλονται μὲν διδάσκειν οἱ σοφισταί, πράττει δʼ αὐτῶν οὐδείς, ἀλλʼ οἱ πολιτευόμενοι, οἳ δόξαιεν ἂν δυνάμει τινὶ τοῦτο πράττειν καὶ ἐμπειρίᾳ μᾶλλον ἢ διανοίᾳ· οὔτε γὰρ γράφοντες οὔτε λέγοντες περὶ τῶν τοιούτων φαίνονται (καίτοι κάλλιον ἦν ἴσως ἢ λόγους δικανικούς τε καὶ δημηγορικούς), οὐδʼ αὖ πολιτικοὺς πεποιηκότες τοὺς σφετέρους υἱεῖς ἤ τινας ἄλλους τῶν φίλων.
For in the other cases, the same people appear to transmit the capacities and to act from them, as physicians and painters do; but as for political matters, the sophists profess to teach them, yet none of them practices, but rather the politicians do, who would seem to do this by a certain capacity and experience rather than by thought; for they do not appear either to write or to speak about such matters (although it was perhaps more beautiful than to do so about forensic and deliberative speeches), nor indeed to have made their own sons or any others of their friends politicians.
εὔλογον δʼ ἦν, εἴπερ ἐδύναντο· οὔτε γὰρ ταῖς πόλεσιν ἄμεινον οὐδὲν κατέλιπον ἄν, οὔθʼ αὑτοῖς ὑπάρξαι προέλοιντʼ ἂν μᾶλλον τῆς τοιαύτης δυνάμεως, οὐδὲ δὴ τοῖς φιλτάτοις.
Yet it was reasonable to expect them to do so, if they were able; for they could have left nothing better to their states, nor could they choose to have anything exist for themselves, or indeed for those dearest to them, rather than such a capacity.
οὐ μὴν μικρόν γε ἔοικεν ἡ ἐμπειρία συμβάλλεσθαι· οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγίνοντʼ ἂν διὰ τῆς πολιτικῆς συνηθείας πολιτικοί·
Nevertheless, experience seems to contribute no small amount; for they would not have become politicians through political habit.
διὸ τοῖς ἐφιεμένοις περὶ πολιτικῆς εἰδέναι προσδεῖν ἔοικεν ἐμπειρίας.
Therefore, those who aim to know about political science seem to need experience in addition.
τῶν δὲ σοφιστῶν οἱ ἐπαγγελλόμενοι λίαν φαίνονται πόρρω εἶναι τοῦ διδάξαι.
But those of the sophists who profess to teach it appear to be very far from doing so.
ὅλως γὰρ οὐδὲ ποῖόν τι ἐστὶν ἢ περὶ ποῖα ἴσασιν· οὐ γὰρ ἂν τὴν αὐτὴν τῇ ῥητορικῇ οὐδὲ χείρω ἐτίθεσαν, οὐδʼ ἂν ᾤοντο ῥᾴδιον εἶναι τὸ νομοθετῆσαι συναγαγόντι τοὺς εὐδοκιμοῦντας τῶν νόμων· ἐκλέξασθαι γὰρ εἶναι τοὺς ἀρίστους, ὥσπερ οὐδὲ τὴν ἐκλογὴν οὖσαν συνέσεως καὶ τὸ κρῖναι ὀρθῶς μέγιστον, ὥσπερ ἐν τοῖς κατὰ μουσικήν.
For they do not know at all even what sort of thing it is or about what matters it is concerned; for otherwise they would not have classed it as the same as rhetoric or even inferior to it, nor would they have thought it easy to legislate by collecting the laws of good repute—saying that it is a matter of selecting the best, as if the selection itself did not require comprehension, and as if judging rightly were not the greatest thing, just as in matters of music.
οἱ γὰρ ἔμπειροι περὶ ἕκαστα κρίνουσιν ὀρθῶς τὰ ἔργα, καὶ διʼ ὧν ἢ πῶς ἐπιτελεῖται συνιᾶσιν, καὶ ποῖα ποίοις συνᾴδει·
For those who are experienced in each area judge the works rightly, and understand through what means and how they are accomplished, and what sorts of things harmonize with what.
τοῖς δʼ ἀπείροις ἀγαπητὸν τὸ μὴ διαλανθάνειν εἰ εὖ ἢ κακῶς πεποίηται τὸ ἔργον, ὥσπερ ἐπὶ γραφικῆς.
But for the inexperienced, it is a matter of satisfaction if it does not escape them whether the work is well or badly made, just as in the case of painting.
οἱ δὲ νόμοι τῆς πολιτικῆς ἔργοις ἐοίκασιν· πῶς οὖν ἐκ τούτων νομοθετικὸς γένοιτʼ ἄν τις, ἢ τοὺς ἀρίστους κρίναι;
Now, laws seem to be the works of political science; how then could anyone become a legislator from them, or judge the best?
οὐ γὰρ φαίνονται οὐδʼ ἰατρικοὶ ἐκ τῶν συγγραμμάτων γίνεσθαι.
For people do not appear to become physicians from handbooks either.
καίτοι πειρῶνταί γε λέγειν οὐ μόνον τὰ θεραπεύματα, ἀλλὰ καὶ ὡς ἰαθεῖεν ἂν καὶ ὡς δεῖ θεραπεύειν ἑκάστους, διελόμενοι τὰς ἕξεις·
Although they do try to state not only the treatments, but also how people might be cured and how one must treat each class of person, having distinguished their habits.
ταῦτα δὲ τοῖς μὲν ἐμπείροις ὠφέλιμα εἶναι δοκεῖ, τοῖς δʼ ἀνεπιστήμοσιν ἀχρεῖα.
But while these seem to be useful to those with experience, they are useless to those without science.
ἴσως οὖν καὶ τῶν νόμων καὶ τῶν πολιτειῶν αἱ συναγωγαὶ τοῖς μὲν δυναμένοις θεωρῆσαι καὶ κρῖναι τί καλῶς ἢ τοὐναντίον καὶ ποῖα ποίοις ἁρμόττει εὔχρηστʼ ἂν εἴη· τοῖς δʼ ἄνευ ἕξεως τὰ τοιαῦτα διεξιοῦσι τὸ μὲν κρίνειν καλῶς οὐκ ἂν ὑπάρχοι, εἰ μὴ ἄρα αὐτόματον, εὐσυνετώτεροι δʼ εἰς ταῦτα τάχʼ ἂν γένοιντο.
Perhaps then collections of laws and constitutions would also be useful to those who are able to study them and to judge what is well done or the opposite, and what sorts of things fit what; but for those who go through such collections without the habit, judging rightly would not belong to them, unless indeed by chance, though they might perhaps become more understanding in these matters.
παραλιπόντων οὖν τῶν προτέρων ἀνερεύνητον τὸ περὶ τῆς νομοθεσίας, αὐτοὺς ἐπισκέψασθαι μᾶλλον βέλτιον ἴσως, καὶ ὅλως δὴ περὶ πολιτείας, ὅπως εἰς δύναμιν ἡ περὶ τὰ ἀνθρώπεια φιλοσοφία τελειωθῇ.
Since, then, previous writers have left the subject of legislation unexplored, it is perhaps better that we ourselves examine it, and indeed the subject of the constitution as a whole, in order that the philosophy of human affairs may be completed as far as possible.
πρῶτον μὲν οὖν εἴ τι κατὰ μέρος εἴρηται καλῶς ὑπὸ τῶν προγενεστέρων πειραθῶμεν ἐπελθεῖν, εἶτα ἐκ τῶν συνηγμένων πολιτειῶν θεωρῆσαι τὰ ποῖα σῴζει καὶ φθείρει τὰς πόλεις καὶ τὰ ποῖα ἑκάστας τῶν πολιτειῶν, καὶ διὰ τίνας αἰτίας αἳ μὲν καλῶς αἳ δὲ τοὐναντίον πολιτεύονται.
First, then, let us try to review whatever has been well said in detail by our predecessors, and then, from the collected constitutions, let us study what sorts of things preserve and destroy states, and what sorts preserve and destroy each of the constitutions, and through what causes some are well-governed and others the opposite.
θεωρηθέντων γὰρ τούτων τάχʼ ἂν μᾶλλον συνίδοιμεν καὶ ποία πολιτεία ἀρίστη, καὶ πῶς ἑκάστη ταχθεῖσα, καὶ τίσι νόμοις καὶ ἔθεσι χρωμένη.
For once these things have been studied, we might perhaps more fully see both what constitution is best, and how each is ordered, and using what laws and habits.
λέγωμεν οὖν ἀρξάμενοι.
Let us then begin our discussion.