§2.13#3αὕτη οὖν πότερον ἄνω ἢ κάτω, ἢ ποῦ ἐστίν;
This, then, is it upwards or downwards, or where is it?
εἶναι μὲν γάρ τινα ἀναγκαῖον·
For it is necessary that there be some movement.
εἰ δὲ μηδὲν μᾶλλον κάτω ἢ ἄνω, ὁ δʼ ἄνω ἀὴρ μὴ κωλύει τὴν ἄνω φοράν, οὐδʼ ἄν ὁ ὑπὸ τῇ γῇ κωλύοι τὴν κάτω· τὰ γὰρ αὐτὰ τῶν οὐτῶν ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι αἴτια τοῖς αὐτοῖς.
And if it is no more downwards than upwards, and the air above does not prevent the upward movement, neither would the air under the earth prevent the downward; for the same things among existing entities must necessarily be causes of the same results.
ἔτι δὲ πρὸς Ἐμπεδοκλέα κἂν ἐκεῖνό τις εἴπειεν.
And further, against Empedocles one might also say this.
ὅτε γὰρ τὰ στοιχεῖα διειστήκει χωρὶς ὑπὸ τοῦ νείκους, τίς αἰτία τῇ γῇ τῆς μονῆς ἦν;
For when the elements were separated apart by Strife, what was the cause of the earth's remaining at rest?
οὐ γὰρ δὴ καὶ τότε αἰτιάσεται τὴν δίνην.
For surely he will not attribute it to the whirl then as well.
ἄτοπον δὲ καὶ τὸ μὴ συννοεῖν ὅτι πρότερον μὲν διὰ τὴν δίνησιν ἐφέρετο τὰ μόρια τῆς γῆς πρὸς τὸ μέσον· νῦν δὲ διὰ τίνʼ αἰτίαν πάντα τὰ βάρος ἔχοντα φέρεται πρὸς αὐτήν;
It is also absurd not to perceive that, while previously the parts of the earth were carried to the center because of the whirl, now, by what cause are all things having weight carried towards it?
οὐ γὰρ ἥ γε δίνη πλησιάζει πρὸς ἡμὰς.
For the whirl at least does not come near to us.
ἔτι δὲ καὶ τὸ πῦρ ἄνω φέρεται διὰ τίνʼ αἰτίαν;
Moreover, for what cause is fire carried upwards?
οὐ γὰρ διά γε τὴν δίνην.
For it is certainly not because of the whirl.
εἰ δὲ τοῦτο φέρεσθαί που πέφυκεν, δῆλον ὅτι καὶ τὴν γῆν οἰητέον.
And if this is of a nature to be carried somewhere, it is clear that we must think the same of the earth.
ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδὲ τῆ δίνῃ γε τὸ βαρύ καὶ κοῦφον ὥρισται, ἀλλά τῶν πρότερον ὑπαρχόντων βαρέων καὶ κούφων τὰ μὲν εἰς τὸ μέσον ἔρχεται, τὰ δʼ ἐπιπολάζει διὰ τὴν κίνησιν.
Moreover, neither are the heavy and the light defined by the whirl, but of the heavy and light things previously existing, some come to the center, while others float to the surface because of the motion.
ἦν ἄρα καὶ πρὶν γενέσθαι τὴν δίνην βαρύ τε καὶ κοῦφον, ἃ τίνι διώριστο καὶ πῶς ἐπεφύκει φέρεσθαι ἢ ποῦ;
Therefore, even before the whirl came to be, there existed both heavy and light; by what were these defined, and how and where were they of a nature to be carried?
ἀπείρου γὰρ ὄντος ἀδύνατον εἶναι ἄνω ἢ κάτω, διώρισται δὲ τούτοις τὸ βαρὺ καὶ κοῦφον.
For if it is infinite, it is impossible for there to be an "up" or "down", and it is by these that the heavy and the light are defined.
οἱ μὲν οὖν πλεῖστοι περὶ τὰς αἰτίας ταύτας διατρίβουσιν· εἰσὶ δέ τινες οἳ διὰ τὴν ὁμοιότητά φασιν αὐτὴν μένειν, ὥσπερ τῶν ἀρχαίων Ἀναξίμανδρος·
Most people, then, busy themselves with these causes; but there are some who say that it remains at rest because of indifference, like Anaximander among the ancients.
μᾶλλον μὲν γὰρ οὐθὲν ἄνω ἢ κάτω ἢ εἰς τὰ πλάγια φέρεσθαι προσήκειν τὸ ἐπὶ τοῦ μέσου ἱδρυμένον καὶ ὁμοίως πρὸς τὰ ἔσχατα ἔχον· ἄμα δʼ δύνατον εἰς τὸ ἐναυτίον ποιεῖσθαι τὴν κίνησιν· ὥστʼ ἐξ ἀνάγκης μένειν.
For that which is established at the center and holds a similar relation to the extremes ought not to be carried any more upwards or downwards or to the sides; and at the same time, it is impossible to make movement in opposite directions; so that of necessity it remains at rest.
τοῦτο δὲ λέγεται κομψῶς μέν, οὐκ ἀληθῶς δέ·
This is said ingeniously, but not truly.
κατὰ γὰρ τοῦτον τὸν λόγον ἀναγκαῖον ἅπαν, ὅ τι ἂν τεθῇ ἐπὶ τοῦ μέσου, μένειν, ὥστε καὶ τὸ πῦρ ἠρεμήσει· τὸ γὰρ εἰρημένον οὐκ ἴδιόν ἐστι τῆς γῆς.
For according to this argument, everything that is placed at the center must necessarily remain at rest, so that even fire will be still; for what has been said is not peculiar to the earth.
ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδʼ ἀναγκαῖον.
Moreover, it is not even necessary.
οὐ γὰρ μόνον φαίνεται μένουσα ἐπὶ τοῦ μέσου, ἀλλὰ καὶ φερομένη πρὸς τὸ μέσον.
For the earth is not only seen remaining at the center, but also being carried towards the center.
ὅπου γὰρ ὁτιοῦν φέρεται μόριον αὐτῆς, ἀναγκαῖον ἐνταῦθα φέρεσθαι καὶ τὴν ὅλην· οὖ δὲ φέρεται κατὰ φύσιν, καὶ μένει ἐνταυθοῖ κατὰ φύσιν.
For wherever any part of it is carried, there the whole must necessarily be carried too; and where it is carried by nature, it also remains there by nature.
οὐκ ἄρα διὰ τὸ ὁμοίως ἔχειν πρὸς τὰ ἔσχατα· τοῦτο μὲν γὰρ πᾶσι κοινόν, τὸ δὲ φέρεσθαι πρὸς τὸ μέσον ἴδιον τῆς γῆς.
Therefore, it is not because of holding a similar relation to the extremes; for this is common to all, but being carried towards the center is peculiar to the earth.
ἄτοπον δὲ καὶ τοῦτο μὲν ζητεῖν, διὰ τί ποτε μένει ἡ γῆ ἐπὶ τοῦ μέσου, τὸ δὲ πῦρ μὴ ζητεῖν διὰ τί ἐπὶ τοῦ ἐσχάτου.
It is also absurd to seek this, namely why the earth remains at the center, and not to seek why fire remains at the extreme.
εἰ μὲν γὰρ κἀκείνῳ φύσει τόπος ὁ ἔσχατος, δῆλον ὅτι ἀναγκαῖον εἶναί τινα καὶ τῇ γῇ φύσει τόπον·
For if the extreme is the natural place for that too, it is clear that there must also be some natural place for the earth.
εἰ δὲ μὴ τπύτῃ οὗτος ὁ τόπος, ἀλλὰ διὰ τὴν ἀνάγκην μένει τὴν τῆς ὁμοιότητος, ὥσπερ ὁ περὶ τῆς τριχὸς λόγος τῆς ἰσχυρῶς μὲν ὁμοίως δὲ πάντῃ τεινομένης, ὅτι οὐ διαρραγήσεται, καὶ τοῦ πεινῶντος καὶ διψῶντος σφόδρα μὲν ὁμοίως δὲ καὶ τῶν ἐδωδίμων καὶ ποτῶν ἴσον ἀπέχοντος (καὶ γὰρ τοῦτον ἠρεμεῖν ἀναγκαῖον), ζητητέον αὐτοῖς περὶ τῆς τοῦ πυρὸς μονῆς ἐπὶ τῶν ἐσχάτωνθαυμαστὸν δὲ καὶ τὸ περὶ μὲν τῆς μονῆς ζητεῖν, περὶ δὲ τῆς φορᾶς αὐτῶν μὴ ζητεῖν, διὰ τίνʼ αἰτίαν τὸ μὲν ἄνω φέρεται τὸ δʼ ἐπὶ τὸ μέσον μηδενὸς ἐμποδίζοντος.
But if this is not its place, but it remains because of the necessity of indifference, like the argument about the hair which, being stretched strongly but equally in every direction, will not break, and about the man who is exceedingly hungry and thirsty, but is equidistant from food and drink (for it is necessary that he too remain still), they must seek concerning the rest of fire at the extremes. And it is also wonderful to seek about their rest, but not to seek about their motion, for what cause one is carried upwards and the other to the center, when nothing prevents them.
ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδʼ ἀληθές ἐστι τὸ λεγόμενον.
Moreover, what is said is not even true.
κατὰ συμβεβηκὸς μέντοι τοῦτʼ ἀληθές, ὡς ἀναγκαῖον μένειν ἐπὶ τοῦ μέσου πᾶν ᾧ μηθὲν μᾶλλον δεῦρο ἢ δεῦρο κινεῖσθαι προσήκει.
However, this is true accidentally, in that everything which has no more reason to move this way than that way must remain at rest at the center.
ἀλλὰ διά γε τοῦτον τὸν λόγον οὐ μενεῖ ἀλλά κινηθήσεται, οὐ μέντοι ὅλον ἀλλὰ διεσπασμένον.
But because of this argument, indeed, it will not remain but will move, not indeed as a whole, but in a dispersed manner.
ὁ γὰρ αὐτὸς ἁρμόσει λόγος καὶ ἐπὶ τοῦ πυρός· ἀνάγκη γὰρ τεθὲν μένειν ὁμοίως ὥσπερ τὴν γῆν· ὁμοίως γὰρ ἕξει πρὸς τῶν σημείων τῶν ἐσχάτων ὁτιοῦν·
For the same argument will apply also to fire; for once placed, it must necessarily remain at rest just like the earth; for it will hold a similar relation to any of the extreme points.
ἀλλʼ ὅμως οἰσθήσεται ἀπὸ τοῦ μέσου, ὥσπερ καὶ φαίνεται φερόμενον, ἄν μή τι κωλύῃ, πρὸς τὸ ἔσχατον· πλὴν οὐχ ὅλον πρὸς ἓν σημεῖον (τοῦτο γὰρ ἀναγκαῖον μόνον συμβαίνειν ἐκ τοῦ λόγου τοῦ περὶ τῆς ὁμοιότητος) ἀλλὰ τὸ ἀνάλογον μόριον πρὸς τὸ ἀνάλογον τοῦ ἐσχάτου, λέγω δʼ οἷον τὸ τέταρτον μέρος πρὸς τὸ τέταρτον μέρος τοῦ περιέχοντος· οὐθὲν γὰρ στιγμὴ τῶν σωμάτων ἐστίν.
But nonetheless it will be carried away from the center, just as it is also seen to be carried, if nothing prevents, towards the extreme; except not as a whole towards one point (for this is the only necessary consequence of the argument about indifference), but the proportional part towards the proportional part of the extreme—I mean, for example, the fourth part towards the fourth part of the surrounding; for no body is a point.
ὥσπερ δὲ κἂν ἐκ μεγάλου συνέλθοι πυκνούμενον εἰς ἐλάττω τόπον, οὕτω κἂν ἐξ ἐλάττονος εἰς μείζω μανότερον γιγνόμενον· ὥστε κἂν ἡ γῇ τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον ἐκινεῖτο ἀπὸ τοῦ μέσου διά γε τὸν τῆς ὁμοιότητος λόγον, εἰ μὴ φύσει τῆς γῆς οὗτος τόπος ἦν.
And just as it could contract from a large space into a smaller one by becoming denser, so it could also expand from a smaller space into a larger one by becoming rarer; so that the earth too would have moved in this way away from the center, according to the argument of indifference, if this were not the natural place of the earth.
ὅσα μὲν οὖν τυγχάνει περί τε τοῦ σχήματος αὐτῆς ὑπολαμβανόμενα καὶ περὶ τόπου καὶ μονῆς καὶ κινήσεως, σχεδὸν ταῦτʼ ἐστίν.
Almost these, then, are the opinions held concerning its shape, place, rest, and motion.