§2.13#2οἱ μὲν γὰρ διὰ ταῦτα ἄπειρον τὸ κάτω τῆς γῆς εἶναί φασιν, ἐπʼ ἄπειρον αὐτὴν ἐρριζῶσθαι λέγοντες, ὥσπερ Ξενοφάνης ὁ Κολοφώνιος, ἵνα μὴ πράγματʼ ἔχωσι ζητοῦντες τὴν αἰτίαν·
For some, because of these reasons, say that the bottom of the earth is infinite, stating that it is rooted to infinity, like Xenophanes of Colophon, so that they may not have trouble seeking the cause.
διὸ καὶ Ἐμπεδοκλῆς οὕτως ἐπέπληξεν, εἰπὼν ὡς “εἴ περ ἀπείρονα γῆς τε βάθη καὶ δαψιλὸς αἰθήρ, ὡς διὰ πολλῶν δὴ γλώσσης ῥηθέντα ματαίως ἐκκέχυται στομάτων, ὀλίγον τοῦ παντὸς ἰδόντων. ʼʼ οἱ δʼ ἐφʼ ὕδατος κεῖσθαι.
Wherefore Empedocles also rebuked them in this way, saying, "If indeed the depths of the earth and the abundant air are infinite, as has been spoken in vain by the tongues of many from their mouths, seeing but a small part of the whole." But others say that it lies upon water.
τοῦτον γὰρ ἀρχαιότατον παρειλήφαμεν τὸν λόγον, ὅν φασιν εἰπεῖν Θαλῆν τὸν Μιλήσιον, ὡς διὰ τὸ πλωτὴν εἶναι μένουσαν ὥσπερ ξύλον ἤ τι τοιοῦτον ἕτερον (καὶ γὰρ τούτων ἐπʼ ἀέρος μὲν οὐθὲν πέφυκε μένειν, ἀλλʼ ἐφʼ ὕδατος), ὥσπερ οὐ τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον ὄντα περὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ τοῦ ὕδατος τοῦ ὀχοῦντος τὴν γῆν· οὐδὲ γὰρ τὸ ὕδωρ πέφυκε μένειν μετέωρον, ἀλλʼ ἐπί τινός ἐστιν.
For we have received this as the most ancient theory, which they say Thales of Miletus stated, namely that it remains at rest because of being able to float like wood or some other such thing (for none of these is of a nature to remain at rest on air, but they do so on water), as if the same argument did not apply to both the earth and the water carrying the earth; for neither is water of a nature to remain suspended in the air, but it must be upon something.
ἔτι δʼ ὥσπερ ἀὴρ ὕδατος κουφότερον, καὶ γῆς ὕδωρ, ὥστε πῶς οἴονται τὸ κουφότερον κατωτέρω κεῖσθαι τοῦ βαρυτὰς τέρου τὴν φύσιν;
Furthermore, just as air is lighter than water, and water than earth, how do they think that the lighter is situated lower than that which is heavier by nature?
ἔτι δʼ εἴπερ ὅλη πέφυκε μένειν ἐφ᾿ ὕδατος, δῆλον ὅτι καὶ τῶν μορίων ἕκαστον αὐτῆς· νῦν δʼ οὐ φαίνεται τοῦτο γιγνόμενον, ἀλλὰ τὸ τυχὸν μόριον φέρεται εἰς βυθόν, καὶ θᾶττον τὸ μεῖζον·
Moreover, if indeed the whole earth is of a nature to remain on water, it is clear that each of its parts must be so too; but in fact this does not appear to happen, but any random part is carried to the bottom, and a larger one more quickly.
ἀλλʼ ἐοίκασι μέχρι τινὸς ζητεῖν, ἀλλʼ οὐ μέχρι περ οὗ δυνατὸν τῆς ἀπορίας.
But they seem to carry their inquiry up to a certain point, and not as far as the difficulty itself allows.
πᾶσι γὰρ ἡμῖν τοῦτο σύνηθες, μὴ πρὸς τὸ πρᾶγμα ποιεῖσθαι τὴν ζήτησιν ἀλλὰ πρὸς τὸν τἀναντία λέγοντα· καὶ γὰρ αὐτὸς ἐν αὑτῷ ζητεῖ μέχρι περ ἂν οὗ μηκέτι ἔχῃ ἀντιλέγειν αὐτὸς αὑτῷ.
For this is customary for all of us, to direct our inquiry not towards the subject itself but towards the person who speaks to the contrary; for even when inquiring by oneself, one carries on only until one has no longer anything to say against oneself.
διὸ δεῖ τὸν μέλλοντα καλῶς ζητήσειν ἐνστατικὸν εἶναι διὰ τῶν οἰκείων ἐνστάσεων τῷ γένει, τοῦτο δʼ ἐστὶν ἐκ τοῦ πάσας τεθεωρηκέναι τὰς διαφοράς.
Wherefore, he who is going to inquire well must be capable of objecting through objections proper to the genus, and this comes from having observed all the differences.
Ἀναξιμένης δὲ καὶ Ἀναξαγόρας καὶ Δημόκριτος τὸ πλάτος αἴτιον εἶναί φασι τοῦ μένειν αὐτήν.
But Anaximenes, Anaxagoras, and Democritus say that its flatness is the cause of its remaining.
οὐ γὰρ τέμνειν ἀλλʼ ἐπιπωματίζειν τὸν ἀέρα τὸν κάτωθεν, ὅπερ φαίνεται τὰ πλάτος ἔχοντα τῶν σωμάτων ποιεῖν· ταῦτα γὰρ καὶ πρὸς τοὺς ἀνέμους ἔχει δυσκινήτως διὰ τὴν ἀντέρεισιν.
For it does not cut the air beneath but caps it, which bodies possessing flatness are seen to do; for these are difficult to move even against winds because of their resistance.
ταὐτὸ δὴ τοῦτο ποιεῖν τῷ πλάτει φασὶ τὴν γῆν πρὸς τὸν ὑποκείμενον ἀέρα· τὸν δʼ οὐκ ἔχοντα μεταστῆναι τόπον ἱκανὸν ἀθρόον τῷ κάτωθεν ἠρεμεῖν, ὡς πρὸς τὸ ἐν ταῖς κλεψύδραις ὕδωρ.
This same thing, they say, the earth by its flatness does to the underlying air; and the air, not having sufficient space to change its place as a whole, remains at rest below, as in the case of the water in clepsydras.
ὅτι δὲ δύναται πολύ βάρος φέρειν ἀπολαμβανόμενος καὶ μένων ὁ ἀήρ, τεκμήρια πολλὰ λέγουσιν.
And they state many proofs that air, when enclosed and remaining still, can support a great weight.
πρῶτον μὲν οὖν εἰ μὴ πλατὺ τὸ σχῆμα τῆς γῆς ἐστί, διὰ τοῦτο μὲν οὐκ ἂν ἠρεμοῖ.
Now first of all, if the shape of the earth is not flat, it would not remain at rest on account of this.
καίτοι τῆς μονῆς οὐ τὸ πλάτος αἴτιον ἐξ ὧν λέγουσιν, ἀλλὰ τὸ μέγεθος μᾶλλον.
And yet, the cause of its remaining at rest is not its flatness according to what they say, but rather its size.
διὰ γὰρ τὴν στενοχωρίαν οὐκ ἔχων τὴν πάροδον ὁ ἀὴρ μένει διὰ τὸ πλῆθος· πολὺς δʼ ἐστὶ διὰ τὸ ὑπὸ μεγέθους πολλοῦ ἐναπολαμβάνεσθαι τοῦ τῆς γῆς.
For because of the confinement, the air, having no passage, remains because of its quantity; and it is abundant because it is enclosed by the great size of the earth.
ὥστε τοῦτο μὲν ὑπάρξει, κἂν σφαιροειδὴς μὲν ἡ γῇ ᾖ, τηλικαύτη δὲ τὸ μέγεθος· μενεῖ γὰρ κατὰ τὸν ἐκείνων λόγον.
So that this will be the case even if the earth is spherical, provided it is of such a size; for it will remain at rest according to their own argument.
ὅλως δὲ πρός γε τοὺς οὕτω λέγοντας περὶ τῆς κινήσεως οὐ περὶ μορίων ἐστὶν ἡ ἀμφισβήτησις, ἀλλὰ περὶ ὅλου τινὸς καὶ παντός.
Generally, against those who speak in this way about motion, the dispute is not about parts, but about some whole and the universe.
ἐξ ἀρχῆς γὰρ διοριστέον πότερόν ἐστί τις τοῖς σώμασι φύσει κίνησις ἢ οὐδειαὐτῆς μία, καὶ πότερον φύσει μὲν οὐκ ἔστι, βίᾳ δʼ ἔστιν.
For from the beginning it must be determined whether there is any motion by nature for bodies or none at all, and whether there is none by nature, but there is by force.
ἐπεὶ δὲ 295a περὶ τούτων διώρισται πρότερον ὅσα κατὰ τὴν παροῦσαν ἐύναμιν εἴχομεν, χρηστέον ὡς ὑπάρχουσιν.
And since 295a concerning these things a determination has been made before as far as we were able according to our present capacity, we must use them as established.
εἰ γὰρ μηδεμία φύσει κίνησίς ἐστιν αὐτῶν, οὐδὲ βίαιος ἔσται· εἶ δὲ μή ἐστι μήτε φύσει μήτε βίᾳ, ὅλως οὐδὲν κινηθήσεται· περὶ γὰρ τούτων ὅτι ἀναγκαῖον συμβαίνειν, διώρισται πρότερον, καὶ πρὸς τούτοις ὅτι οὐδʼ ἠρεμεῖν ἐνδέχεται· ὥσπερ γὰρ κίνησις ὑπάρχει ἢ βίᾳ ἢ φύσει, οὕτω καὶ ἠρεμία.
For if there is no motion by nature for them, there will not be any by force either; and if there is neither by nature nor by force, nothing at all will move; for that these consequences necessarily follow has been determined before, and in addition to these, that it is not even possible for them to be at rest; for just as motion exists either by force or by nature, so does rest.
ἀλλὰ μὴν εἴ γέ ἐστι κίνησίς τις κατὰ φύσιν, οὐκ ἂν ἡ βίαιος εἴη φορὰ μόνον οὐδʼ ἠρέμησις· ὥστʼ εἰ βίᾳ νῦν ἡ γῇ μένει, καὶ συνῆλθεν ἐπὶ τὸ μέσον φερομένη διὰ τὴν δίνησιν·
But indeed, if there is some motion according to nature, the movement and rest by force would not be the only ones; so that if the earth now remains at rest by force, it also came together being carried to the center because of the whirling.
ταύτην γὰρ τὴν αἰτίαν πάντες λέγουσιν ἐκ τῶν ἐν τοῖς ὑγροῖς καὶ περὶ τὸν ἀέρα συμβαινόντων· ἐν τούτοις γὰρ ἀεὶ φέρεται τὰ μείζω καὶ τὰ βαρύτερα πρὸς τὸ μέσον τῆς δίνης.
For all state this cause from what happens in liquids and in the air; for in these the larger and heavier things are always carried to the center of the whirl.
διὸ δὴ τὴν γῆν πάντες ὅσοι τὸν οὐρανὸν γεννῶσιν, ἐπὶ τὸ μέσον συνελθεῖν φασίν· ὅτι δὲ μένει, ζητοῦσι τὴν αἰτίαν, καὶ λέγουσιν οἱ μὲν τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον, ὅτι τὸ πλάτος καὶ τὸ μέγεθος αὐτῆς αἴτιον, οἱ δʼ ὥσπερ Εμπεδοκλῆς, τὴν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ φορὰν κύκλῳ περιθέουσαν καὶ θᾶττον φερομένην τὴν τῆς γῆς φορὰν κωλύειν, καθάπερ τὸ ἐν τοῖς κυάθοις ὕδωρʼ καὶ γὰρ τοῦτο κύκλῳ τοῦ κυάθου φερομένου πολλάκις κάτω τοῦ χαλκοῦ γινόμενον ὅμως οὐ φέρεται κάτω πεφυκὸς φέρεσθαι διὰ τὴν αὐτὴν αἰτίαν.
Wherefore indeed, all those who generate the heaven say that the earth came together at the center; but why it remains, they seek the cause, and some speak in this way, that its flatness and its size are the cause, while others, like Empedocles, say that the motion of the heaven, running around in a circle and moving more quickly, prevents the motion of the earth, just like the water in cups; for this water, when the cup is carried in a circle, though it often comes to be below the bronze, yet is not carried downwards, though being of a nature to be carried so, because of the same cause.
καίτοι μήτε τῆς δίνης κωλυούσης μήτε τοῦ πλάτους, ἀλλʼ ὑπελθόντος τοῦ ἀέρος, ποῖ ποτʼ οἰσθήσεται;
And yet, if neither the whirl prevents it nor the flatness, but the air has slipped away, where will it be carried?
πρὸς μὲν γὰρ τὸ μέσον βίᾳ, καὶ μένει βίᾳ· κατὰ φύσιν δέ γε ἀναγκαῖον εἷναί τινα αὐτῆς φοράν.
For its movement towards the center is by force, and its rest is by force; but by nature, it is necessary that there be some movement of it.