§8.841ΚΛ. τίνα δὴ συμβουλεύεις αὐτοῖς τίθεσθαι νόμον, ἐὰν ὁ νῦν τιθέμενος αὐτοὺς ἐκφύγῃ;
CLE. What law indeed do you advise them to establish, if the one now being established escapes them?
ΑΘ. δῆλον ὅτι τὸν ἐχόμενον τούτου δεύτερον, ὦ Κλεινία.
ATH. Clearly, Cleinias, the one that follows this as second.
ΚΛ. τίνα λέγεις;
CLE. Which one do you mean?
ΑΘ. ἀγύμναστον ὅτι μάλιστα ποιεῖν τὴν τῶν ἡδονῶν ῥώμην ἦν, τὴν ἐπίχυσιν καὶ τροφὴν αὐτῆς διὰ πόνων ἄλλοσε τρέποντα τοῦ σώματος.
ATH. It was to make the strength of pleasures as untrained as possible, by turning its influx and nourishment elsewhere in the body through labors.
εἴη δʼ ἂν τοῦτο, εἰ ἀναίδεια μὴ ἐνείη τῇ τῶν ἀφροδισίων χρήσει· σπανίῳ γὰρ αὖ τῷ τοιούτῳ διʼ αἰσχύνην χρώμενοι, ἀσθενεστέραν ἂν αὐτὴν δέσποιναν κτῷντο ὀλιγάκις χρώμενοι.
And this would be, if shamelessness were not present in the use of sexual pleasures; for by using such things rarely out of shame, they would acquire it as a weaker mistress, since they use it only occasionally.
τὸ δὴ λανθάνειν τούτων δρῶντά τι καλὸν παρʼ αὐτοῖς ἔστω, νόμιμον ἔθει καὶ ἀγράφῳ νομισθὲν νόμῳ, τὸ δὲ μὴ λανθάνειν αἰσχρόν, ἀλλʼ οὐ τὸ μὴ πάντως δρᾶν.
Therefore, let keeping secret when doing any of these things be beautiful among them, being deemed a custom by habit and unwritten law, but not keeping secret be shameful, though not the not doing it at all.
οὕτω τοῦτο αἰσχρὸν αὖ καὶ καλὸν δευτέρως ἂν ἡμῖν ἐν νόμῳ γενόμενον κέοιτο, ὀρθότητα ἔχον δευτέραν, καὶ τοὺς τὰς φύσεις διεφθαρμένους, οὓς ἥττους αὑτῶν προσαγορεύομεν, ἓν γένος ὄν, περιλαβόντα τρία γένη βιάζοιτʼ ἂν μὴ παρανομεῖν.
Thus this shameful and beautiful, being established as a law in a second degree for us, would lie in place, having a second correctness; and grasping those who are corrupted in their natures, whom we address as weaker than themselves, being one class, it would force them not to break the law by encompassing three classes.
ΚΛ. ποῖα δή;
CLE. Which ones indeed?
ΑΘ. τό τε θεοσεβὲς ἅμα καὶ φιλότιμον καὶ τὸ μὴ τῶν σωμάτων ἀλλὰ τῶν τρόπων τῆς ψυχῆς ὄντων καλῶν γεγονὸς ἐν ἐπιθυμίᾳ.
ATH. Piety and at the same time love of honor, and the desire that has arisen not for bodies but for the beautiful characters of the soul.
ταῦτα δὴ καθάπερ ἴσως ἐν μύθῳ τὰ νῦν λεγόμενʼ ἐστὶν εὐχαί, πολύ γε μὴν ἄριστα, εἴπερ γίγνοιτο, ἐν πάσαις πόλεσι γίγνοιτο ἄν.
These things indeed now being spoken of are perhaps like wishes in a myth, but indeed by far the best, if they should happen, they would happen in all cities.
τάχα δʼ ἄν, εἰ θεὸς ἐθέλοι, κἂν δυοῖν θάτερα βιασαίμεθα περὶ ἐρωτικῶν, ἢ μηδένα τολμᾶν μηδενὸς ἅπτεσθαι τῶν γενναίων ἅμα καὶ ἐλευθέρων πλὴν γαμετῆς ἑαυτοῦ γυναικός, ἄθυτα δὲ παλλακῶν σπέρματα καὶ νόθα μὴ σπείρειν, μηδὲ ἄγονα ἀρρένων παρὰ φύσιν· ἢ τὸ μὲν τῶν ἀρρένων πάμπαν ἀφελοίμεθʼ ἄν, τὸ δὲ γυναικῶν, εἴ τις συγγίγνοιτό τινι πλὴν ταῖς μετὰ θεῶν καὶ ἱερῶν γάμων ἐλθούσαις εἰς τὴν οἰκίαν, ὠνηταῖς εἴτε ἄλλῳ ὁτῳοῦν τρόπῳ κτηταῖς, μὴ λανθάνων ἄνδρας τε καὶ γυναῖκας πάσας, τάχʼ ἂν ἄτιμον αὐτὸν τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει ἐπαίνων νομοθετοῦντες ὀρθῶς ἂν δόξαιμεν νομοθετεῖν, ὡς ὄντως ὄντα ξενικόν.
And perhaps, if a god should wish, we might force one of two things concerning erotic matters: either that no one dare to touch any of the well-born and free except his own wedded wife, and not to sow unhallowed and illegitimate seeds of concubines, nor barren seeds of males against nature; or, on the one hand, we would take away that of males altogether, and on the other hand, regarding women, if anyone should associate with any woman except those who have entered his house with gods and sacred marriages, whether bought or acquired in any other way whatsoever, and did not escape the notice of all men and women, we might perhaps, by legislating him to be deprived of the praises in the city, seem to legislate correctly, as being truly alien.
§8.842ΑΘ.οὗτος δὴ νόμος, εἴτε εἷς εἴτε δύο αὐτοὺς χρὴ προσαγορεύειν, κείσθω περὶ ἀφροδισίων καὶ ἁπάντων τῶν ἐρωτικῶν, ὅσα πρὸς ἀλλήλους διὰ τὰς τοιαύτας ἐπιθυμίας ὁμιλοῦντες ὀρθῶς τε καὶ οὐκ ὀρθῶς πράττομεν.
ATH. Let this law, then, whether it is necessary to address them as one or two, be established concerning sexual pleasures and all erotic matters, as many as we do, correctly and incorrectly, in associating with one another through such desires.
ΜΕ. καὶ τοίνυν, ὦ ξένε, ἐγὼ μέν σοι σφόδρα δεχοίμην ἂν τοῦτον τὸν νόμον, ὁ δὲ δὴ Κλεινίας αὐτὸς φραζέτω τί ποτε περὶ αὐτῶν διανοεῖται.
MEG. And indeed, stranger, I for my part would very gladly accept this law for you; but let Cleinias himself tell us what he thinks about them.
ΚΛ. ἔσται ταῦτα, ὦ Μέγιλλε, ὁπόταν γε δή μοι δόξῃ τις παραπεπτωκέναι καιρός· νῦν μὴν ἐῶμεν τὸν ξένον ἔτι εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν προϊέναι τῶν νόμων.
CLE. These things shall be, Megillus, whenever indeed some fitting opportunity seems to have come to me; for now let us allow the stranger to proceed still further forward with the laws.
ΜΕ. ὀρθῶς.
MEG. Correct.
ΑΘ. ἀλλὰ μὴν νῦν γε προϊόντες ἤδη σχεδόν ἐσμεν ἐν τῷ κατεσκευάσθαι μὲν συσσίτια—ὅ φαμεν ἄλλοθι μὲν ἂν χαλεπὸν εἶναι, ἐν Κρήτῃ δὲ οὐδεὶς ἄλλως ἂν ὑπολάβοι δεῖν γίγνεσθαι—τὸ δὲ τίνα τρόπον, πότερον ὡς ἐνθάδε ἢ καθάπερ ἐν Λακεδαίμονι, ἢ παρὰ ταῦτα ἔστιν τι τρίτον εἶδος συσσιτίων ἀμφοῖν τούτοιν ἄμεινον ἂν ἔχον, τοῦτο οὔτʼ ἐξευρεῖν μοι χαλεπὸν εἶναι δοκεῖ, μέγα τε ἀγαθὸν εὑρεθὲν οὐδὲν ἀπεργάσεσθαι· καὶ γὰρ νῦν ἐμμελῶς ἔχειν κατεσκευασμένα.
ATH. But indeed, now proceeding, we are already nearly in the position of having established common meals—which we say would be difficult elsewhere, but in Crete no one would suppose it ought to happen otherwise—but as to in what manner, whether as here or as in Lacedaemon, or whether besides these there is some third form of common meals that would be better than both of these, this does not seem to me difficult to find out, nor, when found, would it accomplish any great good; for even now they are established in a suitable manner.
τούτοις δʼ ἐστὶν ἀκόλουθον ἡ τοῦ βίου κατασκευή, τίνʼ αὐτοῖς ἂν τρόπον ἕποιτο.
Consequent upon these is the arrangement of life, in what manner it should follow for them.
βίος δὴ ἄλλαις μὲν πόλεσιν παντοδαπῶς ἂν καὶ πολλαχόθεν εἴη, μάλιστα δὲ ἐκ διπλασίων ἢ τούτοις· ἐκ γῆς γὰρ καὶ ἐκ θαλάττης τοῖς πλείστοις τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἐστὶ κατεσκευασμένα τὰ περὶ τὴν τροφήν, τούτοις δὲ μόνον ἐκ γῆς.
For life indeed for other cities would be of all kinds and from many sources, and especially from double those of these people; for the matters concerning food are established for most of the Greeks from land and from sea, but for these people only from land.
τῷ μὲν οὖν νομοθέτῃ τοῦτο ῥᾷον· οὐ γὰρ μόνον ἡμίσεις αὖ γίγνονται νόμοι μέτριοι, πολὺ δʼ ἐλάττους, ἔτι δʼ ἐλευθέροις ἀνθρώποις μᾶλλον πρέποντες.
For the legislator, then, this is easier; for not only do moderate laws become half as many again, but much fewer, and moreover more fitting for free men.
ναυκληρικῶν μὲν γὰρ καὶ ἐμπορικῶν καὶ καπηλευτικῶν καὶ πανδοκεύσεων καὶ τελωνικῶν καὶ μεταλλειῶν καὶ δανεισμῶν καὶ ἐπιτόκων τόκων καὶ ἄλλων μυρίων τοιούτων τὰ πολλὰ ἀπήλλακται, χαίρειν αὐτοῖς εἰπών, ὁ περὶ ταύτην τὴν πόλιν νομοθέτης, γεωργοῖς δὲ καὶ νομεῦσι καὶ μελιττουργοῖς καὶ τοῖς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα φυλακτηρίοις τε καὶ ἐπιστάταις ὀργάνων νομοθετήσει, τὰ μέγιστα ἤδη νενομοθετηκὼς περὶ γάμους ἅμα καὶ γενέσεις παίδων καὶ τροφάς, ἔτι δὲ καὶ παιδείας ἀρχῶν τε καταστάσεις ἐν τῇ πόλει· νῦν δʼ ἐπὶ τοὺς τὴν τροφὴν καὶ ὅσοι περὶ αὐτὴν ταύτην συνδιαπονοῦσιν ἀναγκαῖον νομοθετοῦντά ἐστιν τρέπεσθαι.
For from shipowning, merchant trade, retail trade, innkeeping, tax-collecting, mining, moneylending, compound interest, and myriad other such things, the legislator concerning this city is for the most part freed, having bid them farewell, and he will legislate for farmers, shepherds, beekeepers, and the guardians and overseers of tools concerning such things, having already legislated on the greatest matters concerning marriages, births of children, nurtures, and further education, and the establishments of offices in the city; but now it is necessary for him, in legislating, to turn to those concerning food and as many as labor together concerning this very thing.
πρῶτον δὴ νόμοι ἔστωσαν λεγόμενοι τοὔνομα γεωργικοί.
First, then, let there be laws called by name agricultural.