§7.808ΑΘ.τὸ γὰρ ὅλην διατελεῖν ἡντινοῦν νύκτα εὕδοντα καὶ ὁντινοῦν τῶν πολιτῶν, καὶ μὴ φανερὸν εἶναι πᾶσι τοῖς οἰκέταις ἐγειρόμενόν τε καὶ ἐξανιστάμενον ἀεὶ πρῶτον, τοῦτο αἰσχρὸν δεῖ δεδόχθαι πᾶσι καὶ οὐκ ἐλευθέρου, εἴτʼ οὖν νόμον εἴτʼ ἐπιτήδευμα τὸ τοιοῦτον καλεῖν ἐστιν χρεών·
ATH.: For that any citizen whatsoever should continue sleeping through any night whatsoever in its entirety, and not be visible to all the household slaves as always being the first to wake and rise, this must be resolved by all to be shameful and not befitting a free man, whether it is necessary to call such a thing a law or a custom.
καὶ δὴ καὶ δέσποιναν ἐν οἰκίᾳ ὑπὸ θεραπαινίδων ἐγείρεσθαί τινων καὶ μὴ πρώτην αὐτὴν ἐγείρειν τὰς ἄλλας, αἰσχρὸν λέγειν χρὴ πρὸς αὑτοὺς δοῦλόν τε καὶ δούλην καὶ παῖδα, καὶ εἴ πως ἦν οἷόν τε, ὅλην καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν οἰκίαν.
And indeed, also that a mistress in a house should be woken by certain maidservants and not herself wake the others first, one must say is shameful in relation to themselves for both male slave and female slave and child, and, if it were somehow possible, for the whole and entire household.
ἐγειρομένους δὲ νύκτωρ δεῖ πάντας πράττειν τῶν τε πολιτικῶν μέρη πολλὰ καὶ τῶν οἰκονομικῶν, ἄρχοντας μὲν κατὰ πόλιν, δεσποίνας δὲ καὶ δεσπότας ἐν ἰδίαις οἰκίαις.
And when woken up at night, all must perform many parts both of political affairs and of household managements, the rulers indeed throughout the city, and the mistresses and masters in their private homes.
ὕπνος γὰρ δὴ πολὺς οὔτε τοῖς σώμασιν οὔτε ταῖς ψυχαῖς ἡμῶν οὐδʼ αὖ ταῖς πράξεσιν ταῖς περὶ ταῦτα πάντα ἁρμόττων ἐστὶν κατὰ φύσιν.
For indeed much sleep is by nature suited neither to our bodies nor to our souls, nor again to the actions concerning all these matters.
καθεύδων γὰρ οὐδεὶς οὐδενὸς ἄξιος, οὐδὲν μᾶλλον τοῦ μὴ ζῶντος· ἀλλʼ ὅστις τοῦ ζῆν ἡμῶν καὶ τοῦ φρονεῖν μάλιστά ἐστι κηδεμών, ἐγρήγορε χρόνον ὡς πλεῖστον, τὸ πρὸς ὑγίειαν αὐτοῦ μόνον φυλάττων χρήσιμον, ἔστιν δὲ οὐ πολύ, καλῶς εἰς ἔθος ἰόν.
For when sleeping, no one is worth anything, no more than one who is not living; but whoever among us is most a guardian of living and of thinking, remains awake for as long a time as possible, keeping only what is useful for his health, and this is not much, when it is well brought into custom.
ἐγρηγορότες δὲ ἄρχοντες ἐν πόλεσιν νύκτωρ φοβεροὶ μὲν κακοῖς, πολεμίοις τε ἅμα καὶ πολίταις, ἀγαστοὶ δὲ καὶ τίμιοι τοῖς δικαίοις τε καὶ σώφροσιν, ὠφέλιμοι δὲ αὑτοῖς τε καὶ συμπάσῃ τῇ πόλει.
And rulers in cities who are awake at night are fearsome indeed to the wicked, both to enemies and citizens alike, but admirable and honored by the just and temperate, and beneficial both to themselves and to the entire city.
νὺξ μὲν δὴ διαγομένη τοιαύτη τις πρὸς πᾶσι τοῖς εἰρημένοις ἀνδρείαν ἄν τινα προσπαρέχοιτο ταῖς ψυχαῖς ἑκάστων τῶν ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν· ἡμέρας δὲ ὄρθρου τε ἐπανιόντων παῖδας μὲν πρὸς διδασκάλους που τρέπεσθαι χρεών, ἄνευ ποιμένος δὲ οὔτε πρόβατα οὔτʼ ἄλλο οὐδέν πω βιωτέον, οὐδὲ δὴ παῖδας ἄνευ τινῶν παιδαγωγῶν οὐδὲ δούλους ἄνευ δεσποτῶν.
A night indeed spent in some such way, in addition to all the things mentioned, would bring a certain courage to the souls of each of those in the cities; but by day, when dawn returns, children indeed must go somewhere to teachers, for neither sheep nor anything else can ever live without a shepherd, nor indeed children without certain tutors, nor slaves without masters.
ὁ δὲ παῖς πάντων θηρίων ἐστὶ δυσμεταχειριστότατον· ὅσῳ γὰρ μάλιστα ἔχει πηγὴν τοῦ φρονεῖν μήπω κατηρτυμένην, ἐπίβουλον καὶ δριμὺ καὶ ὑβριστότατον θηρίων γίγνεται.
And the child is the most unmanageable of all beasts; for to the degree that he has a fountain of thinking not yet trained, he becomes underhanded and sharp and the most insolent of beasts.
διὸ δὴ πολλοῖς αὐτὸ οἷον χαλινοῖς τισιν δεῖ δεσμεύειν, πρῶτον μέν, τροφῶν καὶ μητέρων ὅταν ἀπαλλάττηται, παιδαγωγοῖς παιδίας καὶ νηπιότητος χάριν, ἔτι δʼ αὖ τοῖς διδάσκουσιν καὶ ὁτιοῦν καὶ μαθήμασιν ὡς ἐλεύθερον· ὡς δʼ αὖ δοῦλον, πᾶς ὁ προστυγχάνων τῶν ἐλευθέρων ἀνδρῶν κολαζέτω τόν τε παῖδα αὐτὸν καὶ τὸν παιδαγωγὸν καὶ διδάσκαλον, ἐὰν ἐξαμαρτάνῃ τίς τι τούτων.
Therefore indeed, it is necessary to bind him with many, as it were, bridles: first indeed, when he is separated from nurses and mothers, by tutors for the sake of play and infancy, and furthermore by those who teach anything whatsoever and by lessons, as befits a free person; and on the other hand, as if a slave, let any of the free men who happens to meet them chastise both the child himself and his tutor and teacher, if any of these commits some fault.
§7.809ΑΘ.ἂν δʼ αὖ προστυγχάνων τις μὴ κολάζῃ τῇ δίκῃ, ὀνείδει μὲν ἐνεχέσθω πρῶτον τῷ μεγίστῳ, ὁ δὲ τῶν νομοφυλάκων ἐπὶ τὴν τῶν παίδων ἀρχὴν ᾑρημένος ἐπισκοπείτω τοῦτον τὸν ἐντυγχάνοντα οἷς λέγομεν καὶ μὴ κολάζοντα δέον κολάζειν, ἢ κολάζοντα μὴ κατὰ τρόπον, βλέπων δὲ ἡμῖν ὀξὺ καὶ διαφερόντως ἐπιμελούμενος τῆς τῶν παίδων τροφῆς κατευθυνέτω τὰς φύσεις αὐτῶν, ἀεὶ τρέπων πρὸς τἀγαθὸν κατὰ νόμους.
ATH.: And on the other hand, if anyone meeting them does not chastise them with justice, let him first be subject to the greatest disgrace; and let the one of the guardians of the laws who has been chosen for the office over children watch this person who meets them, as we say, and does not chastise when it is necessary to chastise, or chastises not in the proper manner; and looking sharply for us and taking care of the rearing of the children in an outstanding way, let him direct their natures, always turning them toward the good according to the laws.
τοῦτον δὲ αὐτὸν αὖ πῶς ἂν ἡμῖν ὁ νόμος αὐτὸς παιδεύσειεν ἱκανῶς;
But this man himself, in turn, how could the law itself sufficiently educate for us?
νῦν μὲν γὰρ δὴ εἴρηκεν οὐδέν πω σαφὲς οὐδὲ ἱκανόν, ἀλλὰ τὰ μέν, τὰ δʼ οὔ· δεῖ δὲ εἰς δύναμιν μηδὲν παραλείπειν αὐτῷ, πάντα δὲ λόγον ἀφερμηνεύειν, ἵνα οὗτος τοῖς ἄλλοις μηνυτής τε ἅμα καὶ τροφεὺς γίγνηται.
For now indeed it has spoken of nothing yet clear nor sufficient, but of some things indeed, and of others not; but it is necessary for it to leave out nothing to the best of its power, but to interpret every argument, so that this man may become for the others both an instructor and a rearer.
τὰ μὲν οὖν δὴ χορείας πέρι μελῶν τε καὶ ὀρχήσεως ἐρρήθη, τίνα τύπον ἔχοντα ἐκλεκτέα τέ ἐστιν καὶ ἐπανορθωτέα καὶ καθιερωτέα· τὰ δὲ ἐν γράμμασι μὲν ὄντα, ἄνευ δὲ μέτρων, ποῖα καὶ τίνα μεταχειρίζεσθαι χρή σοι τρόπον, ὦ ἄριστε τῶν παίδων ἐπιμελητά, τοὺς ὑπὸ σοῦ τρεφομένους, οὐκ εἰρήκαμεν.
The things indeed, therefore, concerning choral dance, songs and dancing, have been spoken of, showing what sort of pattern they must have to be selected, corrected, and consecrated; but the things being indeed in letters, yet without meters, what kind and in what manner you must handle them, O best guardian of children, for those being reared by you, we have not spoken.
καίτοι τὰ μὲν περὶ τὸν πόλεμον ἃ δεῖ μανθάνειν τε αὐτοὺς καὶ μελετᾶν ἔχεις τῷ λόγῳ, τὰ δὲ περὶ τὰ γράμματα πρῶτον, καὶ δεύτερον λύρας πέρι καὶ λογισμῶν, ὧν ἔφαμεν δεῖν ὅσα τε πρὸς πόλεμον καὶ οἰκονομίαν καὶ τὴν κατὰ πόλιν διοίκησιν χρῆναι ἑκάστους λαβεῖν, καὶ πρὸς τὰ αὐτὰ ταῦτα ἔτι τὰ χρήσιμα τῶν ἐν ταῖς περιόδοις τῶν θείων, ἄστρων τε πέρι καὶ ἡλίου καὶ σελήνης, ὅσα διοικεῖν ἀναγκαῖόν ἐστιν περὶ ταῦτα πάσῃ πόλει—τίνων δὴ πέρι λέγομεν;
And yet, the things concerning war, which they must learn and practice, you have in our discussion; but on the other hand, the things first concerning letters, and secondly concerning the lyre and calculations, of which we said each person must acquire as much as is necessary for war and household management and the administration throughout the city, and furthermore, for these very same purposes, the useful things from the periods of the divine beings, concerning both stars and sun and moon, as many as it is necessary for every city to manage concerning these—of what indeed are we speaking?
ἡμερῶν τάξεως εἰς μηνῶν περιόδους καὶ μηνῶν εἰς ἕκαστον τὸν ἐνιαυτόν, ἵνα ὧραι καὶ θυσίαι καὶ ἑορταὶ τὰ προσήκοντʼ ἀπολαμβάνουσαι ἑαυταῖς ἕκασται τῷ κατὰ φύσιν ἄγεσθαι, ζῶσαν τὴν πόλιν καὶ ἐγρηγορυῖαν παρεχόμεναι, θεοῖς μὲν τὰς τιμὰς ἀποδιδῶσιν, τοὺς δὲ ἀνθρώπους περὶ αὐτὰ μᾶλλον ἔμφρονας ἀπεργάζωνται—ταῦτα οὔπω σοι πάντα ἱκανῶς, ὦ φίλε, παρὰ τοῦ νομοθέτου διείρηται· πρόσεχε δὴ τὸν νοῦν τοῖς μετὰ ταῦτα μέλλουσιν ῥηθήσεσθαι.
Of the arrangement of days into periods of months, and of months into each year, so that seasons, sacrifices, and festivals, each receiving their appropriate share by being conducted according to nature, and keeping the city alive and awake, may render to the gods their honors, and make the men more intelligent concerning these matters—these things have not yet all been sufficiently detailed for you, my friend, by the legislator; pay attention then to the things about to be spoken after this.
γραμμάτων εἴπομεν ὡς οὐχ ἱκανῶς ἔχεις πέρι τὸ πρῶτον, ἐπικαλοῦντες τί τῇ λέξει;
We said that you did not first have sufficient instructions concerning letters, by bringing what charge against our statement?
τόδε, ὡς οὔπω διείρηκέ σοι πότερον εἰς ἀκρίβειαν τοῦ μαθήματος ἰτέον τὸν μέλλοντα πολίτην ἔσεσθαι μέτριον ἢ τὸ παράπαν οὐδὲ προσοιστέον· ὡς δʼ αὕτως καὶ περὶ λύραν.
It is this: that it has not yet detailed for you whether the one who is going to be a moderate citizen must go to the point of precision in this learning, or whether he should not touch upon it at all; and in the same way also concerning the lyre.
προσοιστέον μέντοι νῦν φαμεν.
Indeed, we now say that he must touch upon them.