§6.768ΑΘ. περὶ δὲ τῶν δημοσίων ἐγκλημάτων ἀναγκαῖον πρῶτον μὲν τῷ πλήθει μεταδιδόναι τῆς κρίσεως—οἱ γὰρ ἀδικούμενοι πάντες εἰσίν, ὁπόταν τις τὴν πόλιν ἀδικῇ, καὶ χαλεπῶς ἂν ἐν δίκῃ φέροιεν ἄμοιροι γιγνόμενοι τῶν τοιούτων διακρίσεων—ἀλλʼ ἀρχήν τε εἶναι χρὴ τῆς τοιαύτης δίκης καὶ τελευτὴν εἰς τὸν δῆμον ἀποδιδομένην, τὴν δὲ βάσανον ἐν ταῖς μεγίσταις ἀρχαῖς τρισίν, ἃς ἂν ὅ τε φεύγων καὶ ὁ διώκων συνομολογῆτον·
ATH.: On the other hand, concerning public charges, it is necessary first of all to share the judgment with the multitude—for they are all wronged whenever anyone wrongs the city, and they would take it hard in a trial if they were to have no part in such decisions—rather, it is necessary for both the beginning and the end of such a trial to be referred to the people, but the detailed examination must take place before the three greatest offices upon which both the defendant and the prosecutor agree.
ἐὰν δὲ μὴ δύνησθον κοινωνῆσαι τῆς ὁμολογίας αὐτοί, τὴν βουλὴν ἐπικρίνειν αὐτῶν τὴν αἵρεσιν ἑκατέρου.
And if they themselves are not able to share in the agreement, the council must decide the choice of each of them.
δεῖ δὲ δὴ καὶ τῶν ἰδίων δικῶν κοινωνεῖν κατὰ δύναμιν ἅπαντας· ὁ γὰρ ἀκοινώνητος ὢν ἐξουσίας τοῦ συνδικάζειν ἡγεῖται τὸ παράπαν τῆς πόλεως οὐ μέτοχος εἶναι.
And indeed, it is necessary for all to share in private suits as far as possible; for the one who has no share in the power of judging together thinks himself to be not a participant in the city at all.
διὰ ταῦτʼ οὖν δὴ καὶ κατὰ φυλὰς ἀναγκαῖον δικαστήριά τε γίγνεσθαι καὶ κλήρῳ δικαστὰς ἐκ τοῦ παραχρῆμα ἀδιαφθόρους ταῖς δεήσεσι δικάζειν, τὸ δὲ τέλος κρίνειν πάντων τῶν τοιούτων ἐκεῖνο τὸ δικαστήριον, ὅ φαμεν εἴς γε ἀνθρωπίνην δύναμιν ὡς οἷόν τε ἀδιαφθορώτατα παρεσκευάσθαι τοῖς μὴ δυναμένοις μήτε ἐν τοῖς γείτοσι μήτε ἐν τοῖς φυλετικοῖς δικαστηρίοις ἀπαλλάττεσθαι.
For these reasons indeed, it is necessary both that courts exist by tribes, and that judges, uncorrupted by pleas, judge, having been chosen by lot on the spot, and that the final decision of all such matters be judged by that court which we say is prepared as uncorruptly as possible, at least for human power, for those who are unable to be released either among the neighbors or in the tribal courts.
νῦν δὴ περὶ μὲν δικαστήρια ἡμῖν—ἃ δή φαμεν οὔθʼ ὡς ἀρχὰς οὔτε ὡς μὴ ῥᾴδιον εἰπόντα ἀναμφισβητήτως εἰρηκέναι—περὶ μὲν ταῦτα οἷον περιγραφή τις ἔξωθεν περιγεγραμμένη τὰ μὲν εἴρηκεν, τὰ δʼ ἀπολείπει σχεδόν· πρὸς γὰρ τέλει νομοθεσίας ἡ δικῶν ἀκριβὴς νόμων θέσις ἅμα καὶ διαίρεσις ὀρθότατα γίγνοιτʼ ἂν μακρῷ.
Now indeed, concerning the courts for us—which we say cannot be spoken of indisputably, either as offices or as not, without difficulty—about these things, a kind of outline drawn from the outside has said some things, and leaves others nearly undone; for the precise laying down of laws and division of suits would by far most correctly take place toward the end of legislation.
ταύταις μὲν οὖν εἰρήσθω πρὸς τῷ τέλει περιμένειν ἡμᾶς, αἱ δὲ περὶ τὰς ἄλλας ἀρχὰς καταστάσεις σχεδὸν τὴν πλείστην εἰλήφασιν νομοθεσίαν·
Therefore, let it be said for these to wait for us toward the end, but the establishments concerning the other offices have taken up nearly the most of the legislation.
τὸ δὲ ὅλον καὶ ἀκριβὲς περὶ ἑνός τε καὶ πάντων τῶν κατὰ πόλιν καὶ πολιτικὴν πᾶσαν διοικήσεων οὐκ ἔστιν γενέσθαι σαφές, πρὶν ἂν ἡ διέξοδος ἀπʼ ἀρχῆς τά τε δεύτερα καὶ τὰ μέσα καὶ πάντα μέρη τὰ ἑαυτῆς ἀπολαβοῦσα πρὸς τέλος ἀφίκηται.
But the whole and precise truth concerning each and all of the administrations in the city and all political affairs cannot become clear until the detailed exposition from the beginning, having taken up both the secondary and the middle and all its own parts, arrives at the end.
νῦν μὴν ἐν τῷ παρόντι μέχρι τῆς τῶν ἀρχόντων αἱρέσεως γενομένης τελευτὴ μὲν τῶν ἔμπροσθεν αὕτη γίγνοιτʼ ἂν ἱκανή, νόμων δὲ θέσεως ἀρχὴ καὶ ἀναβολῶν ἅμα καὶ ὄκνων οὐδὲν ἔτι δεομένη.
Yet at the present indeed, having gone as far as the election of the officials, this would become a sufficient end of what went before, and a beginning of the laying down of laws, needing no further delays or hesitations.
ΚΛ. πάντως μοι κατὰ νοῦν, ὦ ξένε, τὰ ἔμπροσθεν εἰρηκώς, τὴν ἀρχὴν νῦν τελευτῇ προσάψας περὶ τῶν τε εἰρημένων καὶ τῶν μελλόντων ῥηθήσεσθαι, ταῦτα ἔτι μᾶλλον ἐκείνων εἴρηκας φιλίως.
CLE.: Entirely to my mind, O stranger, have you spoken the things before, and by joining the beginning to the end now, concerning both what has been said and what is going to be said, you have spoken these things even more agreeably than those.
§6.769ΑΘ. καλῶς τοίνυν ἂν ἡμῖν ἡ πρεσβυτῶν ἔμφρων παιδιὰ μέχρι δεῦρʼ εἴη τὰ νῦν διαπεπαισμένη.
ATH.: Well then, let our sensible play of old men be well played out up to this point.
ΚΛ. καλὴν τὴν σπουδὴν ἔοικας δηλοῦν τῶν ἀνδρῶν.
CLE.: You seem to show a beautiful seriousness in these men.
ΑΘ. εἰκός γε·
ATH.: Naturally.
τόδε δʼ ἐννοήσωμεν εἰ σοὶ δοκεῖ καθάπερ ἐμοί.
But let us consider this, if it seems to you just as to me.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον δὴ καὶ περὶ τίνων;
CLE.: What kind of thing indeed, and about what?
ΑΘ. οἶσθʼ ὅτι καθάπερ ζωγράφων οὐδὲν πέρας ἔχειν ἡ πραγματεία δοκεῖ περὶ ἑκάστων τῶν ζῴων, ἀλλʼ ἢ τοῦ χραίνειν ἢ ἀποχραίνειν, ἢ ὁτιδήποτε καλοῦσι τὸ τοιοῦτον οἱ ζωγράφων παῖδες, οὐκ ἄν ποτε δοκεῖ παύσασθαι κοσμοῦσα, ὥστε ἐπίδοσιν μηκέτʼ ἔχειν εἰς τὸ καλλίω τε καὶ φανερώτερα γίγνεσθαι τὰ γεγραμμένα.
ATH.: Do you know that, just as with painters, their work seems to have no limit concerning each of the figures, but they would never seem to stop decorating it by either coloring or shading—or whatever painters’ apprentices call such a thing—so that what has been painted no longer has any room for improvement in becoming more beautiful and clearer?
ΚΛ. σχεδὸν ἐννοῶ ἀκούων καὶ αὐτὸς ταῦτα ἃ λέγεις, ἐπεὶ ἐντριβής γε οὐδαμῶς γέγονα τῇ τοιαύτῃ τέχνῃ.
CLE.: I nearly understand, listening to these things you say myself, since indeed I have by no means become experienced in such an art.
ΑΘ. καὶ οὐδέν γε ἐβλάβης.
ATH.: And indeed you suffered no harm.
χρησώμεθά γε μὴν τῷ νῦν παρατυχόντι περὶ αὐτῆς ἡμῖν λόγῳ τὸ τοιόνδε, ὡς εἴ ποτέ τις ἐπινοήσειε γράψαι τε ὡς κάλλιστον ζῷον καὶ τοῦτʼ αὖ μηδέποτε ἐπὶ φαυλότερον ἀλλʼ ἐπὶ τὸ βέλτιον ἴσχειν τοῦ ἐπιόντος ἀεὶ χρόνου, συννοεῖς ὅτι θνητὸς ὤν, εἰ μή τινα καταλείψει διάδοχον τοῦ ἐπανορθοῦν τε, ἐάν τι σφάλληται τὸ ζῷον ὑπὸ χρόνων, καὶ τὸ παραλειφθὲν ὑπὸ τῆς ἀσθενείας τῆς ἑαυτοῦ πρὸς τὴν τέχνην οἷός τε εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν ἔσται φαιδρύνων ποιεῖν ἐπιδιδόναι, σμικρόν τινα χρόνον αὐτῷ πόνος παραμενεῖ πάμπολυς;
Yet let us use the analogy that has just presented itself to us concerning it in this way: as if someone should think to paint as beautiful a figure as possible, and that this again should never deteriorate but always improve in the time that follows; do you realize that, being mortal, unless he leaves behind some successor who is able both to correct it if the figure is damaged by time, and, by brightening what was left undone through his own weakness in the art, to make it progress forward, his immense labor will remain with him for only a short time?
ΚΛ. ἀληθῆ.
CLE.: True.
ΑΘ. τί οὖν;
ATH.: What then?
ἆρʼ οὐ τοιοῦτον δοκεῖ σοι τὸ τοῦ νομοθέτου βούλημʼ εἶναι;
Does not the wish of the lawgiver seem to you to be of such a kind?
πρῶτον μὲν γράψαι τοὺς νόμους πρὸς τὴν ἀκρίβειαν κατὰ δύναμιν ἱκανῶς· ἔπειτα προϊόντος τοῦ χρόνου καὶ τῶν δοξάντων ἔργῳ πειρώμενον, ἆρʼ οἴει τινὰ οὕτως ἄφρονα γεγονέναι νομοθέτην, ὥστʼ ἀγνοεῖν ὅτι πάμπολλα ἀνάγκη παραλείπεσθαι τοιαῦτα, ἃ δεῖ τινα συνεπόμενον ἐπανορθοῦν, ἵνα μηδαμῇ χείρων, βελτίων δὲ ἡ πολιτεία καὶ ὁ κόσμος ἀεὶ γίγνηται περὶ τὴν ᾠκισμένην αὐτῷ πόλιν;
First, to write down the laws with sufficient precision as far as possible; then, as time goes on and he tries the decided measures in action, do you think any lawgiver has been so foolish as to be ignorant that very many things must necessarily be left behind, which someone coming after must correct, so that the constitution and the order may never become worse in any way, but always better in the city founded by him?
ΚΛ. εἰκός—πῶς γὰρ οὔ; —βούλεσθαι πάντα ὁντινοῦν τὸ τοιοῦτον.
CLE.: It is natural—for how not?—for anyone whatsoever to wish such a thing.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν εἴ τίς τινα μηχανὴν ἔχοι πρὸς τοῦτο, ἔργῳ καὶ λόγοις τίνα τρόπον διδάξειεν ἂν ἕτερον εἴτε μείζονα εἴτε ἐλάττω περὶ τοῦτʼ ἔχειν ἔννοιαν, ὅπως χρὴ φυλάττειν καὶ ἐπανορθοῦν νόμους, οὐκ ἄν ποτε λέγων ἀπείποι τὸ τοιοῦτον πρὶν ἐπὶ τέλος ἐλθεῖν;
ATH.: Therefore, if anyone has any device for this, showing in what way, by deed and word, he might teach another to have a greater or lesser understanding of this—how it is necessary to preserve and correct laws—would he ever tire of speaking of such a thing before reaching the end?