§2.652ΑΘ. τὸ δὴ μετὰ τοῦτο, ὡς ἔοικε, σκεπτέον ἐκεῖνο περὶ αὐτῶν, πότερα τοῦτο μόνον ἀγαθὸν ἔχει, τὸ κατιδεῖν πῶς ἔχομεν τὰς φύσεις, ἢ καί τι μέγεθος ὠφελίας ἄξιον πολλῆς σπουδῆς ἔνεστʼ ἐν τῇ κατʼ ὀρθὸν χρείᾳ τῆς ἐν οἴνῳ συνουσίας.
ATH. After this, as it seems, we must examine that question concerning them: whether this is the only good it has, to perceive how we are in our natures, or whether some great benefit worthy of much serious attention is also inherent in the correct use of the gathering in wine.
τί οὖν δὴ λέγομεν;
What then do we say?
ἔνεσθʼ, ὡς ὁ λόγος ἔοικεν βούλεσθαι σημαίνειν·
It is inherent, as the argument seems to want to indicate.
ὅπῃ δὲ καὶ ὅπως, ἀκούωμεν προσέχοντες τὸν νοῦν, μή πῃ παραποδισθῶμεν ὑπʼ αὐτοῦ.
But in what way and how, let us listen with close attention, lest we be tripped up by it in some way.
ΚΛ. λέγʼ οὖν.
CL. Speak then.
§2.653ΑΘ. ἀναμνησθῆναι τοίνυν ἔγωγε πάλιν ἐπιθυμῶ τί ποτε λέγομεν ἡμῖν εἶναι τὴν ὀρθὴν παιδείαν.
ATH. I desire, then, to recall once more what on earth we say correct education is for us.
τούτου γάρ, ὥς γε ἐγὼ τοπάζω τὰ νῦν, ἔστιν ἐν τῷ ἐπιτηδεύματι τούτῳ καλῶς κατορθουμένῳ σωτηρία.
For in this practice, if it is well carried out, lies the salvation of this, as I estimate at present.
ΚΛ. μέγα λέγεις.
CL. You speak of a great thing.
ΑΘ. λέγω τοίνυν τῶν παίδων παιδικὴν εἶναι πρώτην αἴσθησιν ἡδονὴν καὶ λύπην, καὶ ἐν οἷς ἀρετὴ ψυχῇ καὶ κακία παραγίγνεται πρῶτον, ταῦτʼ εἶναι, φρόνησιν δὲ καὶ ἀληθεῖς δόξας βεβαίους εὐτυχὲς ὅτῳ καὶ πρὸς τὸ γῆρας παρεγένετο· τέλεος δʼ οὖν ἔστʼ ἄνθρωπος ταῦτα καὶ τὰ ἐν τούτοις πάντα κεκτημένος ἀγαθά.
ATH. I say, then, that for children, their first childhood perception is pleasure and pain, and these are the things in which virtue and vice first come to the soul. As for wisdom and firm, true opinions, fortunate is the one to whom they have come even towards old age; a person is complete, however, who has acquired these and all the goods inherent in them.
παιδείαν δὴ λέγω τὴν παραγιγνομένην πρῶτον παισὶν ἀρετήν·
Now, I call education the virtue that first comes to children.
ἡδονὴ δὴ καὶ φιλία καὶ λύπη καὶ μῖσος ἂν ὀρθῶς ἐν ψυχαῖς ἐγγίγνωνται μήπω δυναμένων λόγῳ λαμβάνειν, λαβόντων δὲ τὸν λόγον, συμφωνήσωσι τῷ λόγῳ ὀρθῶς εἰθίσθαι ὑπὸ τῶν προσηκόντων ἐθῶν, αὕτη ʼσθʼ ἡ συμφωνία σύμπασα μὲν ἀρετή, τὸ δὲ περὶ τὰς ἡδονὰς καὶ λύπας τεθραμμένον αὐτῆς ὀρθῶς ὥστε μισεῖν μὲν ἃ χρὴ μισεῖν εὐθὺς ἐξ ἀρχῆς μέχρι τέλους, στέργειν δὲ ἃ χρὴ στέργειν, τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ ἀποτεμὼν τῷ λόγῳ καὶ παιδείαν προσαγορεύων, κατά γε τὴν ἐμὴν ὀρθῶς ἂν προσαγορεύοις.
If pleasure, friendship, pain, and hatred are correctly engendered in the souls of those who are not yet able to grasp them with reason, and when they do grasp reason, they agree with reason that they have been correctly accustomed by proper habits, this entire agreement is virtue; and the part of it that is trained correctly concerning pleasures and pains, so as to hate what one ought to hate right from the beginning to the end, and to love what one ought to love, if you carve out this very thing by argument and call it "education," you would, in my view at least, call it correctly.
ΚΛ. καὶ γάρ, ὦ ξένε, ἡμῖν καὶ τὰ πρότερον ὀρθῶς σοι παιδείας πέρι καὶ τὰ νῦν εἰρῆσθαι δοκεῖ.
CL. Indeed, stranger, both what you said previously about education and what you say now seem to us to have been spoken correctly.
ΑΘ. καλῶς τοίνυν.
ATH. Well then.
τούτων γὰρ δὴ τῶν ὀρθῶς τεθραμμένων ἡδονῶν καὶ λυπῶν παιδειῶν οὐσῶν χαλᾶται τοῖς ἀνθρώποις καὶ διαφθείρεται κατὰ πολλὰ ἐν τῷ βίῳ, θεοὶ δὲ οἰκτίραντες τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἐπίπονον πεφυκὸς γένος, ἀναπαύλας τε αὐτοῖς τῶν πόνων ἐτάξαντο τὰς τῶν ἑορτῶν ἀμοιβὰς τοῖς θεοῖς, καὶ μούσας Ἀπόλλωνά τε μουσηγέτην καὶ Διόνυσον συνεορταστὰς ἔδοσαν, ἵνʼ ἐπανορθῶνται, τάς τε τροφὰς γενομένας ἐν ταῖς ἑορταῖς μετὰ θεῶν.
For indeed, these correctly trained pleasures and pains, which are educations, become slack and are ruined for humans in many ways during their lives; but the gods, pitying the naturally labor-laden race of humans, ordained as reliefs from their labors the alternations of festivals for the gods, and gave the Muses, Apollo the leader of the Muses, and Dionysus as fellow-celebrants, so that they might be set right, and that their nurturing might be sustained in the festivals with the gods.
ὁρᾶν ἃ χρὴ πότερον ἀληθὴς ἡμῖν κατὰ φύσιν ὁ λόγος ὑμνεῖται τὰ νῦν, ἢ πῶς.
We must see whether this argument of ours is currently praised as true according to nature, or how.
φησὶν δὲ τὸ νέον ἅπαν ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν τοῖς τε σώμασι καὶ ταῖς φωναῖς ἡσυχίαν ἄγειν οὐ δύνασθαι, κινεῖσθαι δὲ ἀεὶ ζητεῖν καὶ φθέγγεσθαι, τὰ μὲν ἁλλόμενα καὶ σκιρτῶντα, οἷον ὀρχούμενα μεθʼ ἡδονῆς καὶ προσπαίζοντα, τὰ δὲ φθεγγόμενα πάσας φωνάς.
It says that almost every young creature is unable to keep quiet in both body and voice, but always seeks to move and to utter, some leaping and skipping, as if dancing with pleasure and playing, and others uttering all kinds of voices.