§1.645ΑΘ. μιᾷ γάρ φησιν ὁ λόγος δεῖν τῶν ἕλξεων συνεπόμενον ἀεὶ καὶ μηδαμῇ ἀπολειπόμενον ἐκείνης, ἀνθέλκειν τοῖς ἄλλοις νεύροις ἕκαστον, ταύτην δʼ εἶναι τὴν τοῦ λογισμοῦ ἀγωγὴν χρυσῆν καὶ ἱεράν, τῆς πόλεως κοινὸν νόμον ἐπικαλουμένην, ἄλλας δὲ σκληρὰς καὶ σιδηρᾶς, τὴν δὲ μαλακὴν ἅτε χρυσῆν οὖσαν, τὰς δὲ ἄλλας παντοδαποῖς εἴδεσιν ὁμοίας.
ATH. Athenian: For the argument says that one must always follow one of these pulls and by no means abandon it, and that each person must pull against the other cords; and that this is the golden and sacred cord of calculation, which is called the common law of the state; while the others are hard and iron, but this one is soft, inasmuch as it is golden, and the others are like all kinds of forms.
δεῖν δὴ τῇ καλλίστῃ ἀγωγῇ τῇ τοῦ νόμου ἀεὶ συλλαμβάνειν·
Indeed, we must always assist the most beautiful cord, that of the law.
ἅτε γὰρ τοῦ λογισμοῦ καλοῦ μὲν ὄντος, πρᾴου δὲ καὶ οὐ βιαίου, δεῖσθαι ὑπηρετῶν αὐτοῦ τὴν ἀγωγήν, ὅπως ἂν ἐν ἡμῖν τὸ χρυσοῦν γένος νικᾷ τὰ ἄλλα γένη.
For since calculation is beautiful, but gentle and not violent, its cord needs helpers, so that the golden class in us may conquer the other classes.
καὶ οὕτω δὴ περὶ θαυμάτων ὡς ὄντων ἡμῶν ὁ μῦθος ἀρετῆς σεσωμένος ἂν εἴη, καὶ τὸ κρείττω ἑαυτοῦ καὶ ἥττω εἶναι τρόπον τινὰ φανερὸν ἂν γίγνοιτο μᾶλλον ὃ νοεῖ, καὶ ὅτι πόλιν καὶ ἰδιώτην, τὸν μὲν λόγον ἀληθῆ λαβόντα ἐν ἑαυτῷ περὶ τῶν ἕλξεων τούτων, τούτῳ ἑπόμενον δεῖ ζῆν, πόλιν δὲ ἢ παρὰ θεῶν τινος ἢ παρὰ τούτου τοῦ γνόντος ταῦτα λόγον παραλαβοῦσαν, νόμον θεμένην, αὑτῇ τε ὁμιλεῖν καὶ ταῖς ἄλλαις πόλεσιν.
And thus indeed the story of virtue concerning us as being puppets would be saved, and the meaning of being stronger than oneself and weaker than oneself would become clearer in a way, and also that both a state and an individual—the individual having grasped in himself a true reason concerning these pulls, must live in accordance with it, while the state, having received a reason either from some god or from this person who knows these things, and having established it as law, must associate with itself and with other states.
οὕτω καὶ κακία δὴ καὶ ἀρετὴ σαφέστερον ἡμῖν διηρθρωμένον ἂν εἴη· ἐναργεστέρου δʼ αὐτοῦ γενομένου καὶ παιδεία καὶ τἆλλα ἐπιτηδεύματα ἴσως ἔσται μᾶλλον καταφανῆ, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ περὶ τῆς ἐν τοῖς οἴνοις διατριβῆς, ὃ δοξασθείη μὲν ἂν εἶναι φαύλου πέρι μῆκος πολὺ λόγων περιττὸν εἰρημένον, φανείη δὲ τάχʼ ἂν ἴσως τοῦ μήκους γʼ αὐτῶν οὐκ ἀπάξιον.
Thus indeed both vice and virtue would be more clearly defined for us; and once this has become more evident, education and other practices will perhaps become more manifest, and especially that concerning the pastime with wine, which might be thought to be a surplus of long words spoken about a trivial matter, but would perhaps soon appear to be not unworthy of their length.
ΚΛ. εὖ λέγεις, καὶ περαίνωμεν ὅτιπερ ἂν τῆς γε νῦν διατριβῆς ἄξιον γίγνηται.
CL. Cleinias: You speak well, and let us finish whatever is worthy of our present pastime.
ΑΘ. λέγε δή·
ATH.
προσφέροντες τῷ θαύματι τούτῳ τὴν μέθην, ποῖόν τί ποτε αὐτὸ ἀπεργαζόμεθα;
Athenian: Speak then: when we apply drunkenness to this puppet, what kind of thing do we make it?
ΚΛ. πρὸς τί δὲ σκοπούμενος αὐτὸ ἐπανερωτᾷς;
CL. Cleinias: Looking toward what are you asking this in return?
ΑΘ. οὐδέν πω πρὸς ὅτι, τοῦτο δὲ ὅλως κοινωνῆσαν τούτῳ ποῖόν τι συμπίπτει γίγνεσθαι.
ATH. Athenian: Nothing as yet, but simply what kind of thing it turns out to be when this associates with that.
ἔτι δὲ σαφέστερον ὃ βούλομαι πειράσομαι φράζειν. ἐρωτῶ γὰρ τὸ τοιόνδε·
I will try to speak even more clearly what I want.
ἆρα σφοδροτέρας τὰς ἡδονὰς καὶ λύπας καὶ θυμοὺς καὶ ἔρωτας ἡ τῶν οἴνων πόσις ἐπιτείνει;
For I ask this: does the drinking of wine intensify pleasures and pains and angers and loves more vehemently?
ΚΛ. πολύ γε.
CL. Cleinias: Very much so.
ΑΘ. τί δʼ αὖ τὰς αἰσθήσεις καὶ μνήμας καὶ δόξας καὶ φρονήσεις;
ATH. Athenian: And what again of sensations, memories, opinions, and thoughts?
πότερον ὡσαύτως σφοδροτέρας;
Are they likewise more vehement?
ἢ πάμπαν ἀπολείπει ταῦτα αὐτόν, ἂν κατακορής τις τῇ μέθῃ γίγνηται;
Or do these entirely leave him if one becomes thoroughly saturated with drunkenness?
ΚΛ. ναί, πάμπαν ἀπολείπει.
CL. Cleinias: Yes, they entirely leave him.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν εἰς ταὐτὸν ἀφικνεῖται τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς ἕξιν τῇ τότε ὅτε νέος ἦν παῖς;
ATH. Athenian: Does he not then arrive at the same state of soul as that of the time when he was a young child?
ΚΛ. τί μήν;
CL. Cleinias: To be sure.
ΑΘ. ἥκιστα δὴ τότʼ ἂν αὐτὸς αὑτοῦ γίγνοιτο ἐγκρατής.
ATH. Athenian: At that time, indeed, he would least of all become master of himself.
§1.646ΚΛ. ἥκιστα.
CL. Cleinias: Least of all.
ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν πονηρότατος, φαμέν, ὁ τοιοῦτος;
ATH. Athenian: Do we say then that such a man is in the worst state?
ΚΛ. πολύ γε.
CL. Cleinias: Very much so.
ΑΘ. οὐ μόνον ἄρʼ, ὡς ἔοικεν, ὁ γέρων δὶς παῖς γίγνοιτʼ ἄν, ἀλλὰ καὶ ὁ μεθυσθείς.
ATH. Athenian: Not only then, as it seems, would an old man become a child twice, but also the man who is drunk.
ΚΛ. ἄριστα εἶπες, ὦ ξένε.
CL. Cleinias: Most excellently said, stranger.
ΑΘ. τούτου δὴ τοῦ ἐπιτηδεύματος ἔσθʼ ὅστις λόγος ἐπιχειρήσει πείθειν ἡμᾶς ὡς χρὴ γεύεσθαι καὶ μὴ φεύγειν παντὶ σθένει κατὰ τὸ δυνατόν;
ATH. Athenian: Is there any argument that will attempt to persuade us that we ought to taste this practice and not flee from it with all our strength as far as possible?
ΚΛ. ἔοικʼ εἶναι·
CL.
σὺ γοῦν φῂς καὶ ἕτοιμος ἦσθα νυνδὴ λέγειν.
Cleinias: It seems there is; at any rate, you say so and were ready to speak just now.
ΑΘ. ἀληθῆ μέντοι μνημονεύεις·
ATH.
καὶ νῦν γʼ εἴμʼ ἕτοιμος, ἐπειδήπερ σφώ γε ἐθελήσειν προθύμως ἔφατον ἀκούειν.
Athenian: You remember truly, indeed; and now I am ready, since you two said you would eagerly be willing to listen.
ΚΛ. πῶς δʼ οὐκ ἀκουσόμεθα;
CL.
κἂν εἰ μηδενὸς ἄλλου χάριν, ἀλλὰ τοῦ θαυμαστοῦ τε καὶ ἀτόπου, εἰ δεῖ ἑκόντα ποτὲ ἄνθρωπον εἰς ἅπασαν φαυλότητα ἑαυτὸν ἐμβάλλειν.
Cleinias: And how could we not listen? If for no other reason, then at least for the sake of the wonderful and strange thing, if a man must ever willingly cast himself into complete baseness.
ΑΘ. ψυχῆς λέγεις·
ATH. Athenian: You are speaking of the soul; is that not so?
ἦ γάρ;
CL.
ΚΛ. ναί.
Cleinias: Yes.
ΑΘ. τί δέ;
ATH.
σώματος, ὦ ἑταῖρε, εἰς πονηρίαν, λεπτότητά τε καὶ αἶσχος καὶ ἀδυναμίαν, θαυμάζοιμεν ἂν εἴ ποτέ τις ἑκὼν ἐπὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον ἀφικνεῖται;
Athenian: And what of the body, my friend? If someone ever willingly arrives at such a state as badness, thinness, ugliness, and weakness, would we wonder?
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
CL. Cleinias: For how could we not?
ΑΘ. τί οὖν;
ATH. Athenian: What then?
τοὺς εἰς τὰ ἰατρεῖα αὐτοὺς βαδίζοντας ἐπὶ φαρμακοποσίᾳ ἀγνοεῖν οἰόμεθα ὅτι μετʼ ὀλίγον ὕστερον καὶ ἐπὶ πολλὰς ἡμέρας ἕξουσιν τοιοῦτον τὸ σῶμα, οἷον εἰ διὰ τέλους ἔχειν μέλλοιεν, ζῆν οὐκ ἂν δέξαιντο;
Do we think that those who walk themselves to the clinics for medicine-drinking are ignorant that a little later, and for many days, they will have their body in such a state that, if they were to have it so permanently, they would not accept to live?
ἢ τοὺς ἐπὶ τὰ γυμνάσια καὶ πόνους ἰόντας οὐκ ἴσμεν ὡς ἀσθενεῖς εἰς τὸ παραχρῆμα γίγνονται;
Or do we not know that those who go to gymnasiums and labors become weak for the time being?
ΚΛ. πάντα ταῦτα ἴσμεν.
CL. Cleinias: We know all these things.
ΑΘ. καὶ ὅτι τῆς μετὰ ταῦτα ὠφελίας ἕνεκα ἑκόντες πορεύονται;
ATH. Athenian: And that they go willingly for the sake of the benefit that follows?
ΚΛ. κάλλιστα.
CL. Cleinias: Most beautifully.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν χρὴ καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἐπιτηδευμάτων πέρι διανοεῖσθαι τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον;
ATH. Athenian: Must we not then think about other practices in the same way?
ΚΛ. πάνυ γε.
CL. Cleinias: By all means.
ΑΘ. καὶ τῆς περὶ τὸν οἶνον ἄρα διατριβῆς ὡσαύτως διανοητέον, εἴπερ ἔνι τοῦτο ἐν τούτοις ὀρθῶς διανοηθῆναι.
ATH. Athenian: And we must likewise think about the pastime concerning wine, if indeed this is among those things to be thought about correctly.
ΚΛ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;
CL. Cleinias: For how could we not?
ΑΘ. ἂν ἄρα τινὰ ἡμῖν ὠφελίαν ἔχουσα φαίνηται μηδὲν τῆς περὶ τὸ σῶμα ἐλάττω, τῇ γε ἀρχῇ τὴν σωμασκίαν νικᾷ τῷ τὴν μὲν μετʼ ἀλγηδόνων εἶναι, τὴν δὲ μή.
ATH. Athenian: If then it appears to have some benefit for us, not at all less than that concerning the body, it conquers physical training at the very start, in that the one is with pains, but the other is not.
ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς λέγεις, θαυμάζοιμι δʼ ἂν εἴ τι δυναίμεθα τοιοῦτον ἐν αὐτῷ καταμαθεῖν.
CL. Cleinias: You speak correctly; but I should wonder if we could learn any such thing in it.
ΑΘ. τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ δὴ νῦν, ὡς ἔοιχʼ, ἡμῖν ἤδη πειρατέον φράζειν.
ATH. Athenian: This very thing indeed, as it seems, we must now try to explain.
καί μοι λέγε· δύο φόβων εἴδη σχεδὸν ἐναντία δυνάμεθα κατανοῆσαι;
And tell me: can we perceive two kinds of fear, which are almost opposite?
ΚΛ. ποῖα δή;
CL. Cleinias: What kind indeed?
ΑΘ. τὰ τοιάδε·
ATH.
φοβούμεθα μέν που τὰ κακά, προσδοκῶντες γενήσεσθαι.
Athenian: Such as these: we fear, I suppose, evil things, expecting them to happen.
ΚΛ. ναί.
CL. Cleinias: Yes.