§317ΣΩ. τῶν ἐπισταμένων, ὡς ἔοικεν, ὄψου σκευασίας ἄρχειν;
SOCRATES: Belonging to those who know, as it seems, how to rule the preparation of cooked dishes?
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἐπίστανται δέ, ὥς φασιν, οἱ μάγειροι;
SOCRATES: And do the cooks, as they say, know how?
ΕΤ. ἐπίστανται γάρ.
COMPANION: Yes, for they do.
ΣΩ. εἶεν·
SOCRATES: Very well.
τίνων δὲ δὴ τὰ περὶ πόλεως διοικήσεως συγγράμματά τε καὶ νόμιμά ἐστιν;
And whose indeed are the writings and lawful rules concerning the administration of a city?
ἆρʼ οὐ τῶν ἐπισταμένων πόλεων ἄρχειν;
Are they not of those who know how to rule cities?
ΕΤ. ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
COMPANION: So it seems to me.
ΣΩ. ἐπίστανται δὲ ἄλλοι τινὲς ἢ οἱ πολιτικοί τε καὶ οἱ βασιλικοί;
SOCRATES: And do any others know how than the statesmen and the kings?
ΕΤ. οὗτοι μὲν οὖν.
COMPANION: These, rather.
ΣΩ. πολιτικὰ ἄρα ταῦτα συγγράμματά ἐστιν, οὓς οἱ ἄνθρωποι νόμους καλοῦσι, βασιλέων τε καὶ ἀνδρῶν ἀγαθῶν συγγράμματα.
SOCRATES: Consequently, these writings, which people call laws, are political writings, the writings of kings and of good men.
ΕΤ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
COMPANION: You speak the truth.
ΣΩ. ἄλλο τι οὖν οἵ γε ἐπιστάμενοι οὐκ ἄλλοτε ἄλλα συγγράψουσι περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν;
SOCRATES: Surely, then, those who know will not write different things at different times about the same things?
ΕΤ. οὔ.
COMPANION: No.
ΣΩ. οὐδὲ μεταθήσονταί ποτε περὶ τῶν αὐτῶν ἕτερα καὶ ἕτερα νόμιμα;
SOCRATES: Nor will they ever change them, establishing different rules about the same things?
ΕΤ. οὐ δῆτα.
COMPANION: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ἐὰν οὖν ὁρῶμέν τινας ὁπουοῦν τοῦτο ποιοῦντας, πότερα φήσομεν ἐπιστήμονας εἶναι ἢ ἀνεπιστήμονας τοὺς τοῦτο ποιοῦντας;
SOCRATES: If, then, we see some people doing this anywhere, shall we say that those who do this are knowledgeable or unknowledgeable?
ΕΤ. ἀνεπιστήμονας.
COMPANION: Unknowledgeable.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν καὶ ὃ μὲν ἂν ὀρθὸν ᾖ, νόμιμον αὐτὸ φήσομεν ἑκάστῳ εἶναι, ἢ τὸ ἰατρικὸν ἢ τὸ μαγειρικὸν ἢ τὸ κηπουρικόν;
SOCRATES: Therefore, whatever is correct, shall we say that this is lawful for each—whether it be the medical, the cooking, or the gardening?
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. ὃ δʼ ἂν μὴ ὀρθὸν ᾖ, οὐκέτι φήσομεν τοῦτο νόμιμον εἶναι;
SOCRATES: And whatever is not correct, shall we no longer say that this is lawful?
ΕΤ. οὐκέτι.
COMPANION: No longer.
ΣΩ. ἄνομον ἄρα γίγνεται.
SOCRATES: Consequently, it becomes lawless.
ΕΤ. ἀνάγκη.
COMPANION: Necessarily.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν καὶ ἐν τοῖς συγγράμμασι τοῖς περὶ τῶν δικαίων καὶ ἀδίκων καὶ ὅλως περὶ πόλεως διακοσμήσεώς τε καὶ περὶ τοῦ ὡς χρὴ πόλιν διοικεῖν, τὸ μὲν ὀρθὸν νόμος ἐστὶ βασιλικός, τὸ δὲ μὴ ὀρθὸν οὔ, ὃ δοκεῖ νόμος εἶναι τοῖς μὴ εἰδόσιν·
SOCRATES: Therefore, also in the writings concerning just and unjust things, and generally concerning the ordering of a city and how a city must be administered, that which is correct is royal law, but that which is not correct is not, which seems to be law to those who do not know; for it is lawless.
ἔστιν γὰρ ἄνομον.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΕΤ. ναί. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς ἄρα ὡμολογήσαμεν νόμον εἶναι τοῦ ὄντος εὕρεσιν.
SOCRATES: Correctly, therefore, did we agree that law is the discovery of that which is.
ΕΤ. φαίνεται.
COMPANION: It appears so.
ΣΩ. ἔτι δὲ καὶ τόδε ἐν αὐτῷ διαθεώμεθα.
SOCRATES: Let us further examine this in it too.
τίς ἐπιστήμων διανεῖμαι ἐπὶ γῇ τὰ σπέρματα;
Who is knowledgeable in distributing seeds upon the earth?
ΕΤ. γεωργός.
COMPANION: The farmer.
ΣΩ. οὗτος δὲ τὰ ἄξια σπέρματα ἑκάστῃ γῇ διανέμει;
SOCRATES: And does this man distribute the suitable seeds to each soil?
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. ὁ γεωργὸς ἄρα νομεὺς ἀγαθὸς τούτων, καὶ οἱ τούτου νόμοι καὶ διανομαὶ ἐπὶ ταῦτα ὀρθαί εἰσιν;
SOCRATES: The farmer, therefore, is a good distributor of these, and his laws and distributions for these are correct?
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. τίς δὲ κρουμάτων ἐπὶ τὰ μέλη ἀγαθὸς νομεύς, καὶ τὰ ἄξια νεῖμαι;
SOCRATES: And who is a good distributor of musical notes to melodies, to distribute what is suitable?
καὶ οἱ τίνος νόμοι ὀρθοί εἰσιν;
And whose laws are correct?
ΕΤ. οἱ τοῦ αὐλητοῦ καὶ τοῦ κιθαριστοῦ.
COMPANION: Those of the flute-player and the cithara-player.
ΣΩ. ὁ νομικώτατος ἄρα ἐν τούτοις, οὗτος αὐλητικώτατος.
SOCRATES: Consequently, the one who is most law-abiding in these matters is the most skilled in flute-playing.
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. τίς δὲ τὴν τροφὴν ἐπὶ τὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων σώματα διανεῖμαι ἄριστος;
SOCRATES: And who is best at distributing food to the bodies of men?
οὐχ ὅσπερ τὴν ἀξίαν;
Is it not the one who distributes what is suitable?
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. αἱ τούτου ἄρα διανομαὶ καὶ οἱ νόμοι βέλτιστοι, καὶ ὅστις περὶ ταῦτα νομικώτατος, καὶ νομεὺς ἄριστος.
SOCRATES: Consequently, this man's distributions and laws are best, and whoever is most skilled in laws about these is also the best distributor.
ΕΤ. πάνυ γε.
COMPANION: Quite so.
ΣΩ. τίς οὗτος;
SOCRATES: Who is this?
§318ΕΤ. παιδοτρίβης.
COMPANION: The athletic trainer.
ΣΩ. οὗτος τὴν ἀνθρωπείαν ἀγέλην τοῦ σώματος νέμειν κράτιστος;
SOCRATES: This man is best at pasturing the human herd of the body?
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. τίς δὲ τὴν τῶν προβάτων ἀγέλην κράτιστος νέμειν;
SOCRATES: And who is best at pasturing the herd of sheep?
τί ὄνομα αὐτῷ;
What is his name?
ΕΤ. ποιμήν.
COMPANION: A shepherd.
ΣΩ. οἱ τοῦ ποιμένος ἄρα νόμοι ἄριστοι τοῖς προβάτοις.
SOCRATES: Consequently, the shepherd's laws are best for the sheep.
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. οἱ δὲ τοῦ βουκόλου τοῖς βουσί.
SOCRATES: And those of the cowherd for the cattle.
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. οἱ δὲ τοῦ τίνος νόμοι ἄριστοι ταῖς ψυχαῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων;
SOCRATES: And whose laws are best for the souls of men?
οὐχ οἱ τοῦ βασιλέως;
Are they not those of the king?
φάθι.
Say so.
ΕΤ. φημὶ δή.
COMPANION: I say so indeed.
ΣΩ. καλῶς τοίνυν λέγεις.
SOCRATES: Well said indeed.
ἔχοις ἂν οὖν εἰπεῖν τίς τῶν παλαιῶν ἀγαθὸς γέγονεν ἐν τοῖς αὐλητικοῖς νόμοις νομοθέτης;
Could you, then, tell me who among the ancients became a good lawgiver in flute-playing laws?
ἴσως οὐκ ἐννοεῖς, ἀλλʼ ἐγὼ βούλει σε ὑπομνήσω;
Perhaps you do not have it in mind, but do you want me to remind you?
ΕΤ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
COMPANION: By all means.
ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν ὁ Μαρσύας λέγεται καὶ τὰ παιδικὰ αὐτοῦ Ὄλυμπος ὁ Φρύξ;
SOCRATES: Is it not Marsyas who is so said, and his beloved Olympus the Phrygian?
ΕΤ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
COMPANION: What you say is true.
ΣΩ. τούτων δὴ καὶ τὰ αὐλήματα θειότατά ἐστι, καὶ μόνα κινεῖ καὶ ἐκφαίνει τοὺς τῶν θεῶν ἐν χρείᾳ ὄντας· καὶ ἔτι καὶ νῦν μόνα λοιπά, ὡς θεῖα ὄντα.
SOCRATES: Indeed, the flute-tunes of these men are also most divine, and they alone move and reveal those who are in need of the gods; and even still now they alone remain, as being divine.
ΕΤ. ἔστι ταῦτα.
COMPANION: That is so.
ΣΩ. τίς δὲ λέγεται τῶν παλαιῶν βασιλέων ἀγαθὸς νομοθέτης γεγονέναι, οὗ ἔτι καὶ νῦν τὰ νόμιμα μένει ὡς θεῖα ὄντα;
SOCRATES: And who among the ancient kings is said to have been a good lawgiver, whose laws still remain even now as being divine?
ΕΤ. οὐκ ἐννοῶ.
COMPANION: I do not have it in mind.
ΣΩ. οὐκ οἶσθα τίνες παλαιοτάτοις νόμοις χρῶνται τῶν Ἑλλήνων;
SOCRATES: Do you not know who among the Greeks use the oldest laws?
ΕΤ. ἆρα Λακεδαιμονίους λέγεις καὶ Λυκοῦργον τὸν νομοθέτην;
COMPANION: Do you mean the Lacedaemonians and Lycurgus the lawgiver?
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ ταῦτά γε οὐδέπω ἴσως ἔτη τριακόσια ἢ ὀλίγῳ τούτων πλείω.
SOCRATES: But these things are perhaps not yet three hundred years old, or only a little more than that.
ἀλλὰ τούτων τῶν νομίμων τὰ βέλτιστα πόθεν ἥκει;
But from where do the best of these laws come?
οἶσθα;
Do you know?
ΕΤ. φασί γε ἐκ Κρήτης.
COMPANION: They say indeed from Crete.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν οὗτοι παλαιοτάτοις νόμοις χρῶνται τῶν Ἑλλήνων;
SOCRATES: Therefore, do these people use the oldest laws of the Greeks?
ΕΤ. ναί.
COMPANION: Yes.
ΣΩ. οἶσθα οὖν τίνες τούτων ἀγαθοὶ βασιλῆς ἦσαν;
SOCRATES: Do you know, then, who among these were good kings?
Μίνως καὶ Ῥαδάμανθυς, οἱ Διὸς καὶ Εὐρώπης παῖδες, ὧν οἵδε εἰσὶν οἱ νόμοι.
Minos and Rhadamanthys, the sons of Zeus and Europa, whose laws these are.
ΕΤ. Ῥαδάμανθύν γέ φασιν, ὦ Σώκρατες, δίκαιον ἄνδρα, τὸν δὲ Μίνων ἄγριόν τινα καὶ χαλεπὸν καὶ ἄδικον.
COMPANION: They say indeed that Rhadamanthys, Socrates, was a just man, but Minos was someone wild, harsh, and unjust.
ΣΩ. Ἀττικόν, ὦ βέλτιστε, λέγεις μῦθον καὶ τραγικόν.
SOCRATES: You are telling an Attic myth, my good friend, and a tragic one.
ΕΤ. τί δέ;
COMPANION: What of it?
οὐ ταῦτα λέγεται περὶ Μίνω;
Is this not what is said about Minos?
ΣΩ. οὔκουν ὑπό γε Ὁμήρου καὶ Ἡσιόδου· καίτοι γε πιθανώτεροί εἰσιν ἢ σύμπαντες οἱ τραγῳδοποιοί, ὧν σὺ ἀκούων ταῦτα λέγεις.
SOCRATES: Certainly not by Homer and Hesiod, at any rate; and yet they are more persuasive than all the tragedy-writers put together, from whom you heard and now say these things.
ΕΤ. ἀλλὰ τί μὴν οὗτοι περὶ Μίνω λέγουσιν;
COMPANION: But what, indeed, do these men say about Minos?