§9.587τῷ φιλοσόφῳ ἄρα ἑπομένης ἁπάσης τῆς ψυχῆς καὶ μὴ στασιαζούσης ἑκάστῳ τῷ μέρει ὑπάρχει εἴς τε τἆλλα τὰ ἑαυτοῦ πράττειν καὶ δικαίῳ εἶναι, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰς ἡδονὰς τὰς ἑαυτοῦ ἕκαστον καὶ τὰς βελτίστας καὶ εἰς τὸ δυνατὸν τὰς ἀληθεστάτας καρποῦσθαι. κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν.
"Therefore, when the entire soul follows the wisdom-loving part and does not engage in factional strife, it belongs to each part to perform its own tasks in other respects and to be just, and what is more, for each to enjoy its own pleasures, namely the best ones and, as far as possible, the truest ones." "Quite so," he said.
ὅταν δὲ ἄρα τῶν ἑτέρων τι κρατήσῃ, ὑπάρχει αὐτῷ μήτε τὴν ἑαυτοῦ ἡδονὴν ἐξευρίσκειν, τά τε ἄλλʼ ἀναγκάζειν ἀλλοτρίαν καὶ μὴ ἀληθῆ ἡδονὴν διώκειν. οὕτως, ἔφη.
"But whenever one of the other parts gains mastery, it turns out for it that it can neither find its own pleasure, nor can it avoid forcing the other parts to pursue a foreign and untrue pleasure." "Just so," he said.
οὐκοῦν ἃ πλεῖστον φιλοσοφίας τε καὶ λόγου ἀφέστηκεν, μάλιστʼ ἂν τοιαῦτα ἐξεργάζοιτο; πολύ γε.
"Would not, then, those things which are furthest removed from philosophy and reason most of all produce such results?" "By far," he said.
πλεῖστον δὲ λόγου ἀφίσταται οὐχ ὅπερ νόμου τε καὶ τάξεως; δῆλον δή. ἐφάνησαν δὲ πλεῖστον ἀφεστῶσαι οὐχ αἱ ἐρωτικαί τε καὶ τυραννικαὶ ἐπιθυμίαι; πολύ γε. ἐλάχιστον δὲ αἱ βασιλικαί τε καὶ κόσμιαι; ναί. πλεῖστον δὴ οἶμαι ἀληθοῦς ἡδονῆς καὶ οἰκείας ὁ τύραννος ἀφεστήξει, ὁ δὲ ὀλίγιστον. ἀνάγκη. καὶ ἀηδέστατα ἄρα, εἶπον, ὁ τύραννος βιώσεται, ὁ δὲ βασιλεὺς ἥδιστα. πολλὴ ἀνάγκη. οἶσθʼ οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅσῳ ἀηδέστερον ζῇ τύραννος βασιλέως; ἂν εἴπῃς, ἔφη.
"And is not that which is furthest removed from law and order also furthest removed from reason?" "Plainly so." "And did not the erotic and tyrannical desires show themselves to be furthest removed?" "By far." "And the kingly and orderly ones least removed?" "Yes." "I suppose, then, that the tyrant will be furthest removed from true and appropriate pleasure, while the king will be least removed." "Necessarily." "And so," I said, "the tyrant will live most unpleasantly, and the king most pleasantly." "Most necessarily." "Do you know, then," I said, "by how much more unpleasantly the tyrant lives than the king?" "If you tell me," he said.
τριῶν ἡδονῶν, ὡς ἔοικεν, οὐσῶν, μιᾶς μὲν γνησίας, δυοῖν δὲ νόθαιν, τῶν νόθων εἰς τὸ ἐπέκεινα ὑπερβὰς ὁ τύραννος, φυγὼν νόμον τε καὶ λόγον, δούλαις τισὶ δορυφόροις ἡδοναῖς συνοικεῖ, καὶ ὁπόσῳ ἐλαττοῦται οὐδὲ πάνυ ῥᾴδιον εἰπεῖν, πλὴν ἴσως ὧδε. πῶς; ἔφη.
"Since there are, as it seems, three pleasures, one genuine and two bastard, the tyrant, having overstepped the boundary of the bastard ones, fleeing law and reason, lives together with certain slave-like, bodyguard-like pleasures, and by how much he is deficient is not altogether easy to say, except perhaps in this way." "How?" he said.
ἀπὸ τοῦ ὀλιγαρχικοῦ τρίτος που ὁ τύραννος ἀφειστήκει· ἐν μέσῳ γὰρ αὐτῶν ὁ δημοτικὸς ἦν. ναί. οὐκοῦν καὶ ἡδονῆς τρίτῳ εἰδώλῳ πρὸς ἀλήθειαν ἀπʼ ἐκείνου συνοικοῖ ἄν, εἰ τὰ πρόσθεν ἀληθῆ; οὕτω. ὁ δέ γε ὀλιγαρχικὸς ἀπὸ τοῦ βασιλικοῦ αὖ τρίτος, ἐὰν εἰς ταὐτὸν ἀριστοκρατικὸν καὶ βασιλικὸν τιθῶμεν. τρίτος γάρ. τριπλασίου ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τριπλάσιον ἀριθμῷ ἀληθοῦς ἡδονῆς ἀφέστηκεν τύραννος. φαίνεται. ἐπίπεδον ἄρʼ, ἔφην, ὡς ἔοικεν, τὸ εἴδωλον κατὰ τὸν τοῦ μήκους ἀριθμὸν ἡδονῆς τυραννικῆς ἂν εἴη. κομιδῇ γε. κατὰ δὲ δύναμιν καὶ τρίτην αὔξην δῆλον δὴ ἀπόστασιν ὅσην ἀφεστηκὼς γίγνεται. δῆλον, ἔφη, τῷ γε λογιστικῷ. οὐκοῦν ἐάν τις μεταστρέψας ἀληθείᾳ ἡδονῆς τὸν βασιλέα τοῦ τυράννου ἀφεστηκότα λέγῃ ὅσον ἀφέστηκεν, ἐννεακαιεικοσικαιεπτακοσιοπλασιάκις ἥδιον αὐτὸν ζῶντα εὑρήσει τελειωθείσῃ τῇ πολλαπλασιώσει, τὸν δὲ τύραννον ἀνιαρότερον τῇ αὐτῇ ταύτῃ ἀποστάσει. §9.588ἀμήχανον, ἔφη, λογισμὸν καταπεφόρηκας τῆς διαφορότητος τοῖν ἀνδροῖν, τοῦ τε δικαίου καὶ τοῦ ἀδίκου, πρὸς ἡδονήν τε καὶ λύπην.
"The tyrant stood somewhere third from the oligarchic man; for the democratic man was in the middle between them." "Yes." "Would he not, then, also live with an image of pleasure that is third from that other one in relation to truth, if the former statements are true?" "Just so." "And the oligarchic man, in turn, is third from the kingly man, if we place the aristocratic and the kingly man in the same category." "Yes, third." "Therefore," I said, "the tyrant is removed from true pleasure by a number that is three times three." "It appears so." "Then," I said, "the image of tyrannical pleasure, as it seems, would be a plane number according to the number of length." "Completely so." "But by squaring and the third increase, it is clear indeed how great a distance he is removed." "It is clear," he said, "at least to the calculator." "Therefore, if someone, reversing it, speaks of how far the king is removed from the tyrant in the truth of pleasure, when the multiplication is completed, he will find him living seven hundred and twenty-nine times more pleasantly, and the tyrant more painfully by this same distance." "You have poured out a wondrous calculation," he said, "of the difference between the two men—the just and the unjust—in respect to pleasure and pain.
καὶ μέντοι καὶ ἀληθῆ καὶ προσήκοντά γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, βίοις ἀριθμόν, εἴπερ αὐτοῖς προσήκουσιν ἡμέραι καὶ νύκτες καὶ μῆνες καὶ ἐνιαυτοί. ἀλλὰ μήν, ἔφη, προσήκουσιν.
"And yet," I said, "it is a true and appropriate number for lives, if indeed days, nights, months, and years are appropriate to them." "And indeed they are," he said.
οὐκοῦν εἰ τοσοῦτον ἡδονῇ νικᾷ ὁ ἀγαθός τε καὶ δίκαιος τὸν κακόν τε καὶ ἄδικον, ἀμηχάνῳ δὴ ὅσῳ πλείονι νικήσει εὐσχημοσύνῃ τε βίου καὶ κάλλει καὶ ἀρετῇ; ἀμηχάνῳ μέντοι νὴ Δία, ἔφη.
"If, then, the good and just man defeats the bad and unjust man by so much in pleasure, will he not defeat him by a wondrously greater amount in grace of life, beauty, and virtue?" "By wondrously indeed, by Zeus," he said.
εἶεν δή, εἶπον· ἐπειδὴ ἐνταῦθα λόγου γεγόναμεν, ἀναλάβωμεν τὰ πρῶτα λεχθέντα, διʼ ἃ δεῦρʼ ἥκομεν. ἦν δέ που λεγόμενον λυσιτελεῖν ἀδικεῖν τῷ τελέως μὲν ἀδίκῳ, δοξαζομένῳ δὲ δικαίῳ· ἢ οὐχ οὕτως ἐλέχθη; οὕτω μὲν οὖν. νῦν δή, ἔφην, αὐτῷ διαλεγώμεθα, ἐπειδὴ διωμολογησάμεθα τό τε ἀδικεῖν καὶ τὸ δίκαια πράττειν ἣν ἑκάτερον ἔχει δύναμιν. πῶς; ἔφη.
"Well then," I said, "since we have come to this point in our speech, let us take up again the first things said, on account of which we have come here." "It was said, I believe, that it is profitable to do injustice for the man who is completely unjust but is reputed to be just; or was it not said in this way?" "It was indeed so." "Now then," I said, "let us discuss with him, since we have agreed on what power doing injustice and doing just things each has." "How?" he said.
εἰκόνα πλάσαντες τῆς ψυχῆς λόγῳ, ἵνα εἰδῇ ὁ ἐκεῖνα λέγων οἷα ἔλεγεν. ποίαν τινά; ἦ δʼ ὅς.
"By fashioning an image of the soul in speech, so that the one who said those things may know what kind of things he was saying." "What kind of image?" he said.
τῶν τοιούτων τινά, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οἷαι μυθολογοῦνται παλαιαὶ γενέσθαι φύσεις, ἥ τε Χιμαίρας καὶ ἡ Σκύλλης καὶ Κερβέρου, καὶ ἄλλαι τινὲς συχναὶ λέγονται συμπεφυκυῖαι ἰδέαι πολλαὶ εἰς ἓν γενέσθαι. λέγονται γάρ, ἔφη.
"One of those," I said, "such as the ancient natures are mythologized to have been—that of the Chimera, of Scylla, of Cerberus, and numerous others that are said to have grown together, many forms into one." "Yes, they are said to be," he said.
πλάττε τοίνυν μίαν μὲν ἰδέαν θηρίου ποικίλου καὶ πολυκεφάλου, ἡμέρων δὲ θηρίων ἔχοντος κεφαλὰς κύκλῳ καὶ ἀγρίων, καὶ δυνατοῦ μεταβάλλειν καὶ φύειν ἐξ αὑτοῦ πάντα ταῦτα. δεινοῦ πλάστου, ἔφη, τὸ ἔργον· ὅμως δέ, ἐπειδὴ εὐπλαστότερον κηροῦ καὶ τῶν τοιούτων λόγος, πεπλάσθω. μίαν δὴ τοίνυν ἄλλην ἰδέαν λέοντος, μίαν δὲ ἀνθρώπου· πολὺ δὲ μέγιστον ἔστω τὸ πρῶτον καὶ δεύτερον τὸ δεύτερον. ταῦτα, ἔφη, ῥᾴω, καὶ πέπλασται. σύναπτε τοίνυν αὐτὰ εἰς ἓν τρία ὄντα, ὥστε πῃ συμπεφυκέναι ἀλλήλοις. συνῆπται, ἔφη.
"Fashion, then, one form of a variegated and multi-headed beast, which has heads of tame and wild beasts in a circle, and is able to change and grow all these things out of itself." "The work of a formidable sculptor," he said; "nevertheless, since speech is more easily fashioned than wax and such things, let it be fashioned." "Now, then, fashion one other form of a lion, and one of a human; and let the first be by far the largest, and the second, second largest." "These are easier," he said, "and they are fashioned." "Join them, then, these three into one, so that they grow together with one another in some way." "They are joined," he said.
περίπλασον δὴ αὐτοῖς ἔξωθεν ἑνὸς εἰκόνα, τὴν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, ὥστε τῷ μὴ δυναμένῳ τὰ ἐντὸς ὁρᾶν, ἀλλὰ τὸ ἔξω μόνον ἔλυτρον ὁρῶντι, ἓν ζῷον φαίνεσθαι, ἄνθρωπον. περιπέπλασται, ἔφη.
"Now fashion around them from the outside the image of one, that of the human, so that to the one who is unable to see the things inside, but sees only the outside shell, it appears to be one animal, a human." "It is fashioned around," he said."