§8.555καὶ μὴν ἀνταγωνιστής γε ἰδίᾳ ἐν πόλει ὁ φειδωλὸς φαῦλος ἤ τινος νίκης ἢ ἄλλης φιλοτιμίας τῶν καλῶν, χρήματά τε οὐκ ἐθέλων εὐδοξίας ἕνεκα καὶ τῶν τοιούτων ἀγώνων ἀναλίσκειν, δεδιὼς τὰς ἐπιθυμίας τὰς ἀναλωτικὰς ἐγείρειν καὶ συμπαρακαλεῖν ἐπὶ συμμαχίαν τε καὶ φιλονικίαν, ὀλίγοις τισὶν ἑαυτοῦ πολεμῶν ὀλιγαρχικῶς τὰ πολλὰ ἡττᾶται καὶ πλουτεῖ. καὶ μάλα, ἔφη.
"Furthermore, in private, that frugal man is a poor competitor in the city, for any victory or other fine ambition, being unwilling to spend money for the sake of reputation and such contests; fearing to awaken the spendthrift desires and to summon them as allies for a victory, fighting with only a few of his resources in an oligarchic manner, he is mostly defeated and gets rich." "Very much so," he said.
ἔτι οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀπιστοῦμεν μὴ κατὰ τὴν ὀλιγαρχουμένην πόλιν ὁμοιότητι τὸν φειδωλόν τε καὶ χρηματιστὴν τετάχθαι; οὐδαμῶς, ἔφη.
"Do we then still doubt," I said, "that the frugal and money-making man is stationed in likeness to the oligarchical city?" "Not at all," he said.
δημοκρατίαν δή, ὡς ἔοικε, μετὰ τοῦτο σκεπτέον, τίνα τε γίγνεται τρόπον, γενομένη τε ποῖόν τινα ἔχει, ἵνʼ αὖ τὸν τοῦ τοιούτου ἀνδρὸς τρόπον γνόντες παραστησώμεθʼ αὐτὸν εἰς κρίσιν. ὁμοίως γοῦν ἄν, ἔφη, ἡμῖν αὐτοῖς πορευοίμεθα. οὐκοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μεταβάλλει μὲν τρόπον τινὰ τοιόνδε ἐξ ὀλιγαρχίας εἰς δημοκρατίαν, διʼ ἀπληστίαν τοῦ προκειμένου ἀγαθοῦ, τοῦ ὡς πλουσιώτατον δεῖν γίγνεσθαι; πῶς δή; ἅτε οἶμαι ἄρχοντες ἐν αὐτῇ οἱ ἄρχοντες διὰ τὸ πολλὰ κεκτῆσθαι, οὐκ ἐθέλουσιν εἴργειν νόμῳ τῶν νέων ὅσοι ἂν ἀκόλαστοι γίγνωνται, μὴ ἐξεῖναι αὐτοῖς ἀναλίσκειν τε καὶ ἀπολλύναι τὰ αὑτῶν, ἵνα ὠνούμενοι τὰ τῶν τοιούτων καὶ εἰσδανείζοντες ἔτι πλουσιώτεροι καὶ ἐντιμότεροι γίγνωνται. παντός γε μᾶλλον. οὐκοῦν δῆλον ἤδη τοῦτο ἐν πόλει, ὅτι πλοῦτον τιμᾶν καὶ σωφροσύνην ἅμα ἱκανῶς κτᾶσθαι ἐν τοῖς πολίταις ἀδύνατον, ἀλλʼ ἀνάγκη ἢ τοῦ ἑτέρου ἀμελεῖν ἢ τοῦ ἑτέρου; ἐπιεικῶς, ἔφη, δῆλον.
"Next, then, as it seems, democracy must be considered, in what way it comes to be, and having come to be, what kind of character it has, so that having in turn known the character of such a man, we may bring him forward for judgment." "In that way, at least," he said, "we would proceed consistently with ourselves." "Does it not then change," I said, "in some such way as this from oligarchy to democracy, through the insatiability of the proposed good, namely, that one must become as rich as possible?" "How so?" "Since, I suppose, those who rule in it do so because they possess much, they are unwilling to restrain by law those of the youth who become dissolute, from spending and wasting their own property, so that by buying up the possessions of such men and lending them money, they may become still richer and more honored." "Most of all, surely." "Is it not then already clear in a city that it is impossible to honor wealth and at the same time sufficiently acquire moderation among the citizens, but of necessity one must either neglect the one or the other?" "It is reasonably clear," he said.
παραμελοῦντες δὴ ἐν ταῖς ὀλιγαρχίαις καὶ ἐφιέντες ἀκολασταίνειν οὐκ ἀγεννεῖς ἐνίοτε ἀνθρώπους πένητας ἠνάγκασαν γενέσθαι. μάλα γε. κάθηνται δὴ οἶμαι οὗτοι ἐν τῇ πόλει κεκεντρωμένοι τε καὶ ἐξωπλισμένοι, οἱ μὲν ὀφείλοντες χρέα, οἱ δὲ ἄτιμοι γεγονότες, οἱ δὲ ἀμφότερα, μισοῦντές τε καὶ ἐπιβουλεύοντες τοῖς κτησαμένοις τὰ αὑτῶν καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις, νεωτερισμοῦ ἐρῶντες. ἔστι ταῦτα. §8.556οἱ δὲ δὴ χρηματισταὶ ἐγκύψαντες, οὐδὲ δοκοῦντες τούτους ὁρᾶν, τῶν λοιπῶν τὸν ἀεὶ ὑπείκοντα ἐνιέντες ἀργύριον τιτρώσκοντες, καὶ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκγόνους τόκους πολλαπλασίους κομιζόμενοι, πολὺν τὸν κηφῆνα καὶ πτωχὸν ἐμποιοῦσι τῇ πόλει. πῶς γάρ, ἔφη, οὐ πολύν;
"By neglecting this, then, in oligarchies, and permitting the high-born sometimes to become dissolute, they have forced men of no noble stamp to become poor." "Very much so." "And these, I suppose, sit in the city, goaded and armed, some owing debts, others having lost their franchise, others both, hating and plotting against those who acquired their property and against the others, eager for revolution." "That is so." "But the money-makers, keeping their heads down, pretending not even to see these men, wounding with their money anyone of the rest who ever yields, and bringing in offspring-interest many times larger than the parent-capital, breed a great drone and beggar population in the city." "How could they not breed a great one?" he said.
καὶ οὔτε γʼ ἐκείνῃ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τὸ τοιοῦτον κακὸν ἐκκαόμενον ἐθέλουσιν ἀποσβεννύναι, εἴργοντες τὰ αὑτοῦ ὅπῃ τις βούλεται τρέπειν, οὔτε τῇδε, ᾗ αὖ κατὰ ἕτερον νόμον τὰ τοιαῦτα λύεται. κατὰ δὴ τίνα; ὃς μετʼ ἐκεῖνόν ἐστι δεύτερος καὶ ἀναγκάζων ἀρετῆς ἐπιμελεῖσθαι τοὺς πολίτας.
"And they are unwilling," I said, "to extinguish such a burning evil, either by this way, restricting a man from turning his own property wherever he wishes, or by that way, where such things are solved by another law." "By what kind of law?" "That which is second after that one and forces the citizens to pay attention to virtue.
ἐὰν γὰρ ἐπὶ τῷ αὑτοῦ κινδύνῳ τὰ πολλά τις τῶν ἑκουσίων συμβολαίων προστάττῃ συμβάλλειν, χρηματίζοιντο μὲν ἂν ἧττον ἀναιδῶς ἐν τῇ πόλει, ἐλάττω δʼ ἐν αὐτῇ φύοιτο τῶν τοιούτων κακῶν οἵων νυνδὴ εἴπομεν. καὶ πολύ γε, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
For if someone should ordain that most voluntary contracts are made at the lender's own risk, they would make money less shamelessly in the city, and fewer of such evils would grow in it as we have just mentioned." "And much fewer," he said.
νῦν δέ γʼ, ἔφην ἐγώ, διὰ πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα τοὺς μὲν δὴ ἀρχομένους οὕτω διατιθέασιν ἐν τῇ πόλει οἱ ἄρχοντες· σφᾶς δὲ αὐτοὺς καὶ τοὺς αὑτῶν—ἆρʼ οὐ τρυφῶντας μὲν τοὺς νέους καὶ ἀπόνους καὶ πρὸς τὰ τοῦ σώματος καὶ πρὸς τὰ τῆς ψυχῆς, μαλακοὺς δὲ καρτερεῖν πρὸς ἡδονάς τε καὶ λύπας καὶ ἀργούς; τί μήν; αὑτοὺς δὲ πλὴν χρηματισμοῦ τῶν ἄλλων ἠμεληκότας, καὶ οὐδὲν πλείω ἐπιμέλειαν πεποιημένους ἀρετῆς ἢ τοὺς πένητας; οὐ γὰρ οὖν. οὕτω δὴ παρεσκευασμένοι ὅταν παραβάλλωσιν ἀλλήλοις οἵ τε ἄρχοντες καὶ οἱ ἀρχόμενοι ἢ ἐν ὁδῶν πορείαις ἢ ἐν ἄλλαις τισὶ κοινωνίαις, ἢ κατὰ θεωρίας ἢ κατὰ στρατείας, ἢ σύμπλοι γιγνόμενοι ἢ συστρατιῶται, ἢ καὶ ἐν αὐτοῖς τοῖς κινδύνοις ἀλλήλους θεώμενοι μηδαμῇ ταύτῃ καταφρονῶνται οἱ πένητες ὑπὸ τῶν πλουσίων, ἀλλὰ πολλάκις ἰσχνὸς ἀνὴρ πένης, ἡλιωμένος, παραταχθεὶς ἐν μάχῃ πλουσίῳ ἐσκιατροφηκότι, πολλὰς ἔχοντι σάρκας ἀλλοτρίας, ἴδῃ ἄσθματός τε καὶ ἀπορίας μεστόν, ἆρʼ οἴει αὐτὸν οὐχ ἡγεῖσθαι κακίᾳ τῇ σφετέρᾳ πλουτεῖν τοὺς τοιούτους, καὶ ἄλλον ἄλλῳ παραγγέλλειν, ὅταν ἰδίᾳ συγγίγνωνται, ὅτι
ἇνδρες ἡμέτεροι· εἰσὶ γὰρ οὐδέν; εὖ οἶδα μὲν οὖν, ἔφη, ἔγωγε, ὅτι οὕτω ποιοῦσιν. οὐκοῦν ὥσπερ σῶμα νοσῶδες μικρᾶς ῥοπῆς ἔξωθεν δεῖται προσλαβέσθαι πρὸς τὸ κάμνειν, ἐνίοτε δὲ καὶ ἄνευ τῶν ἔξω στασιάζει αὐτὸ αὑτῷ, οὕτω δὴ καὶ ἡ κατὰ ταὐτὰ ἐκείνῳ διακειμένη πόλις ἀπὸ σμικρᾶς προφάσεως, ἔξωθεν ἐπαγομένων ἢ τῶν ἑτέρων ἐξ ὀλιγαρχουμένης πόλεως συμμαχίαν ἢ τῶν ἑτέρων ἐκ δημοκρατουμένης, νοσεῖ τε καὶ αὐτὴ αὑτῇ μάχεται, ἐνίοτε δὲ καὶ ἄνευ τῶν ἔξω στασιάζει;
"But as it is," I said, "through all such things, the rulers dispose the ruled in this way in the city; and as for themselves and their own—do they not make their youth luxurious and idle, both regarding the body and regarding the soul, soft in resisting pleasures and pains, and lazy?" "Of course." "And themselves, neglecting everything else except money-making, and paying no more attention to virtue than the poor do?" "Indeed not." "When, then, having been thus prepared, the rulers and the ruled meet one another, either on journeys or in some other associations, either on festival embassies or on campaigns, either as shipmates or as fellow soldiers, or when observing one another in the very dangers, in no way are the poor despised by the rich; but often a lean, sunburnt poor man, stationed in battle next to a rich man reared in the shade, possessing much extraneous flesh, sees him full of panting and perplexity—do you not suppose he thinks that it is by their own cowardice that such men are rich, and that they pass the word to one another when they meet in private, 'Our men are nothing'?" "I know well indeed," he said, "that they do so." "Therefore, just as a sickly body needs only a small impulse from without to fall into illness, and sometimes even without external things is at war with itself, so also the city conditioned in the same way as that body, from a small pretext, when one party brings in allies from an oligarchical city or the other from a democratic one, falls ill and fights with itself, and sometimes even without external things is in revolt?"