§8.549αὐθαδέστερόν τε δεῖ αὐτόν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εἶναι καὶ ὑποαμουσότερον, φιλόμουσον δέ, καὶ φιλήκοον μέν, ῥητορικὸν δʼ οὐδαμῶς.
"He must be more self-willed," I said, "and somewhat less cultured, though a lover of culture, and fond of listening, but by no means a rhetorician.
καὶ δούλοις μέν τις ἂν ἄγριος εἴη ὁ τοιοῦτος, οὐ καταφρονῶν δούλων, ὥσπερ ὁ ἱκανῶς πεπαιδευμένος, ἐλευθέροις δὲ ἥμερος, ἀρχόντων δὲ σφόδρα ὑπήκοος, φίλαρχος δὲ καὶ φιλότιμος, οὐκ ἀπὸ τοῦ λέγειν ἀξιῶν ἄρχειν οὐδʼ ἀπὸ τοιούτου οὐδενός, ἀλλʼ ἀπὸ ἔργων τῶν τε πολεμικῶν καὶ τῶν περὶ τὰ πολεμικά, φιλογυμναστής τέ τις ὢν καὶ φιλόθηρος. ἔστι γάρ, ἔφη, τοῦτο τὸ ἦθος ἐκείνης τῆς πολιτείας. οὐκοῦν καὶ χρημάτων, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὁ τοιοῦτος νέος μὲν ὢν καταφρονοῖ ἄν, ὅσῳ δὲ πρεσβύτερος γίγνοιτο, μᾶλλον ἀεὶ ἀσπάζοιτο ἂν τῷ τε μετέχειν τῆς τοῦ φιλοχρημάτου φύσεως καὶ μὴ εἶναι εἰλικρινὴς πρὸς ἀρετὴν διὰ τὸ ἀπολειφθῆναι τοῦ ἀρίστου φύλακος; τίνος; ἦ δʼ ὃς ὁ Ἀδείμαντος.
And such a man would be harsh toward slaves, not looking down on them as the adequately educated man does, but gentle toward free men, and highly obedient to rulers, a lover of ruling and of honor, claiming to rule not because of speaking or anything of the sort, but because of deeds, both warlike and related to war, being a lover of gymnastics and of hunting." "For indeed," he said, "this is the character of that constitution." "Therefore, such a man," I said, "when he is young, might look down on money, but the older he grows, the more he would always welcome it, because he shares in the money-loving nature and is not pure in virtue because of having been abandoned by the best guardian." "What guardian?" Adeimantus said.
λόγου, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μουσικῇ κεκραμένου· ὃς μόνος ἐγγενόμενος σωτὴρ ἀρετῆς διὰ βίου ἐνοικεῖ τῷ ἔχοντι. καλῶς, ἔφη, λέγεις.
"Reason," I said, "blended with culture; which alone, when present, dwells within the possessor throughout life as the savior of virtue." "You speak well," he said.
καὶ ἔστι μέν γʼ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τοιοῦτος ὁ τιμοκρατικὸς νεανίας, τῇ τοιαύτῃ πόλει ἐοικώς. πάνυ μὲν οὖν. γίγνεται δέ γʼ, εἶπον, οὗτος ὧδέ πως· ἐνίοτε πατρὸς ἀγαθοῦ ὢν νέος ὑὸς ἐν πόλει οἰκοῦντος οὐκ εὖ πολιτευομένῃ, φεύγοντος τάς τε τιμὰς καὶ ἀρχὰς καὶ δίκας καὶ τὴν τοιαύτην πᾶσαν φιλοπραγμοσύνην καὶ ἐθέλοντος ἐλαττοῦσθαι ὥστε πράγματα μὴ ἔχειν— πῇ δή, ἔφη, γίγνεται;
"And indeed," I said, "such is the timocratic youth, resembling such a city." "Entirely so." "And he comes to be," I said, "somewhere in this way: sometimes, being the young son of a good father who lives in a city not well-governed, who flees honors, offices, lawsuits, and all such meddlesomeness, and is willing to be disadvantaged so as not to have trouble—" "How then does he come to be?" he said.
ὅταν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πρῶτον μὲν τῆς μητρὸς ἀκούῃ ἀχθομένης ὅτι οὐ τῶν ἀρχόντων αὐτῇ ὁ ἀνήρ ἐστιν, καὶ ἐλαττουμένης διὰ ταῦτα ἐν ταῖς ἄλλαις γυναιξίν, ἔπειτα ὁρώσης μὴ σφόδρα περὶ χρήματα σπουδάζοντα μηδὲ μαχόμενον καὶ λοιδορούμενον ἰδίᾳ τε ἐν δικαστηρίοις καὶ δημοσίᾳ, ἀλλὰ ῥᾳθύμως πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα φέροντα, καὶ ἑαυτῷ μὲν τὸν νοῦν προσέχοντα ἀεὶ αἰσθάνηται, ἑαυτὴν δὲ μήτε πάνυ τιμῶντα μήτε ἀτιμάζοντα, ἐξ ἁπάντων τούτων ἀχθομένης τε καὶ λεγούσης ὡς ἄνανδρός τε αὐτῷ ὁ πατὴρ καὶ λίαν ἀνειμένος, καὶ ἄλλα δὴ ὅσα καὶ οἷα φιλοῦσιν αἱ γυναῖκες περὶ τῶν τοιούτων ὑμνεῖν. καὶ μάλʼ, ἔφη ὁ Ἀδείμαντος, πολλά τε καὶ ὅμοια ἑαυταῖς. §8.550οἶσθα οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅτι καὶ οἱ οἰκέται τῶν τοιούτων ἐνίοτε λάθρᾳ πρὸς τοὺς ὑεῖς τοιαῦτα λέγουσιν, οἱ δοκοῦντες εὖνοι εἶναι, καὶ ἐάν τινα ἴδωσιν ἢ ὀφείλοντα χρήματα, ᾧ μὴ ἐπεξέρχεται ὁ πατήρ, ἤ τι ἄλλο ἀδικοῦντα, διακελεύονται ὅπως, ἐπειδὰν ἀνὴρ γένηται, τιμωρήσεται πάντας τοὺς τοιούτους καὶ ἀνὴρ μᾶλλον ἔσται τοῦ πατρός.
"Whenever," I said, "first indeed he hears his mother complaining that her husband is not among the rulers, and that she is thereby disadvantaged among the other women, and then seeing that he is not very earnest about money and does not fight or abuse people in private in the law courts or in public, but bears all such things easily, and when she perceives that he always pays attention to his own mind, but neither highly honors nor dishonors her; from all these things she is annoyed and says that his father is unmanly and too slack, and indeed all other such things as women are fond of chanting about such men." "Indeed," Adeimantus said, "very many and similar to themselves." "Do you know then," I said, "that even the domestics of such men sometimes secretly say such things to the sons, those who seem to be well-disposed, and if they see someone either owing money, whom the father does not prosecute, or doing some other wrong, they urge him that, when he becomes a man, he must punish all such people and be more of a man than his father.
καὶ ἐξιὼν ἕτερα τοιαῦτα ἀκούει καὶ ὁρᾷ, τοὺς μὲν τὰ αὑτῶν πράττοντας ἐν τῇ πόλει ἠλιθίους τε καλουμένους καὶ ἐν σμικρῷ λόγῳ ὄντας, τοὺς δὲ μὴ τὰ αὑτῶν τιμωμένους τε καὶ ἐπαινουμένους.
And going out he hears and sees other such things, those who mind their own business in the city being called fools and held in small account, while those who do not mind their own business are honored and praised.
τότε δὴ ὁ νέος πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα ἀκούων τε καὶ ὁρῶν, καὶ αὖ τοὺς τοῦ πατρὸς λόγους ἀκούων τε καὶ ὁρῶν τὰ ἐπιτηδεύματα αὐτοῦ ἐγγύθεν παρὰ τὰ τῶν ἄλλων, ἑλκόμενος ὑπʼ ἀμφοτέρων τούτων, τοῦ μὲν πατρὸς αὐτοῦ τὸ λογιστικὸν ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ ἄρδοντός τε καὶ αὔξοντος, τῶν δὲ ἄλλων τό τε ἐπιθυμητικὸν καὶ τὸ θυμοειδές, διὰ τὸ μὴ κακοῦ ἀνδρὸς εἶναι τὴν φύσιν, ὁμιλίαις δὲ ταῖς τῶν ἄλλων κακαῖς κεχρῆσθαι, εἰς τὸ μέσον ἑλκόμενος ὑπʼ ἀμφοτέρων τούτων ἦλθε, καὶ τὴν ἐν ἑαυτῷ ἀρχὴν παρέδωκε τῷ μέσῳ τε καὶ φιλονίκῳ καὶ θυμοειδεῖ, καὶ ἐγένετο ὑψηλόφρων τε καὶ φιλότιμος ἀνήρ. κομιδῇ μοι, ἔφη, δοκεῖς τὴν τούτου γένεσιν διεληλυθέναι. ἔχομεν ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τήν τε δευτέραν πολιτείαν καὶ τὸν δεύτερον ἄνδρα. ἔχομεν, ἔφη.
Then indeed the youth, hearing and seeing all such things, and on the other hand hearing his father's discourses and seeing his pursuits close at hand alongside those of the others, being pulled by both of these, his father watering and increasing the rational part in his soul, and the others the appetitive and spirited parts, since he is not of a bad nature but has kept bad company with others, being pulled by both of these came to the middle, and handed over the rule within himself to the middle and victory-loving and spirited part, and became a high-minded and honor-loving man." "You seem to me," he said, "to have gone through his origin completely." "We have then," I said, "the second constitution and the second man." "We have," he said.
οὐκοῦν μετὰ τοῦτο, τὸ τοῦ Αἰσχύλου, λέγωμεν,
"ἄλλον ἄλλῃ πρὸς πόλει τεταγμένον"
, μᾶλλον δὲ κατὰ τὴν ὑπόθεσιν προτέραν τὴν πόλιν; πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.
"Should we then, after this, speak of another, as Aeschylus says, 'another marshaled against another city', or rather, according to our hypothesis, the city first?" "Entirely so," he said.
εἴη δέ γʼ ἄν, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι, ὀλιγαρχία ἡ μετὰ τὴν τοιαύτην πολιτείαν. λέγεις δέ, ἦ δʼ ὅς, τὴν ποίαν κατάστασιν ὀλιγαρχίαν; τὴν ἀπὸ τιμημάτων, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πολιτείαν, ἐν ᾗ οἱ μὲν πλούσιοι ἄρχουσιν, πένητι δὲ οὐ μέτεστιν ἀρχῆς. μανθάνω, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
"And indeed, I suppose, oligarchy would be the one after such a constitution." "And what kind of setup," he said, "do you call oligarchy?" "The constitution based on property-assessments," I said, "in which the rich rule, and the poor man has no share in office." "I understand," he said.
οὐκοῦν ὡς μεταβαίνει πρῶτον ἐκ τῆς τιμαρχίας εἰς τὴν ὀλιγαρχίαν, ῥητέον; ναί. καὶ μήν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ τυφλῷ γε δῆλον ὡς μεταβαίνει. πῶς; τὸ ταμιεῖον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐκεῖνο ἑκάστῳ χρυσίου πληρούμενον ἀπόλλυσι τὴν τοιαύτην πολιτείαν.
"Must we not then say first how it changes from timarchy to oligarchy?" "Yes." "And indeed, it is clear even to a blind man how it changes." "How?" "That treasury," I said, "filled with gold for each man, destroys such a constitution.
πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ δαπάνας αὑτοῖς ἐξευρίσκουσιν, καὶ τοὺς νόμους ἐπὶ τοῦτο παράγουσιν, ἀπειθοῦντες αὐτοί τε καὶ γυναῖκες αὐτῶν. εἰκός, ἔφη.
For first they find expenditures for themselves, and they distort the laws to this end, disobeying them, both they and their wives." "Likely so," he said.
ἔπειτά γε οἶμαι ἄλλος ἄλλον ὁρῶν καὶ εἰς ζῆλον ἰὼν τὸ πλῆθος τοιοῦτον αὑτῶν ἀπηργάσαντο. εἰκός. τοὐντεῦθεν τοίνυν, εἶπον, προϊόντες εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν τοῦ χρηματίζεσθαι, ὅσῳ ἂν τοῦτο τιμιώτερον ἡγῶνται, τοσούτῳ ἀρετὴν ἀτιμοτέραν.
"Then, I suppose, seeing one another and entering into emulation, they make the multitude of themselves like that." "Likely." "Thereafter, then," I said, "proceeding further into money-making, the more honorable they think this is, the more dishonorably they treat virtue.
ἢ οὐχ οὕτω πλούτου ἀρετὴ διέστηκεν, ὥσπερ ἐν πλάστιγγι ζυγοῦ κειμένου ἑκατέρου, ἀεὶ τοὐναντίον ῥέποντε; καὶ μάλʼ, ἔφη.
Or is virtue not so distanced from wealth, as if each lay in the scale of a balance, always inclining in opposite directions?" "Very much so," he said.