§6.490ἀκούωμεν δὴ καὶ λέγωμεν ἐκεῖθεν ἀναμνησθέντες, ὅθεν διῇμεν τὴν φύσιν οἷον ἀνάγκη φῦναι τὸν καλόν τε κἀγαθὸν ἐσόμενον.
"Let us listen, then," I said, "and let us speak, having recalled from that point whence we went through the nature of what kind he who is to be a noble and good man must be by birth.
ἡγεῖτο δʼ αὐτῷ, εἰ νῷ ἔχεις, πρῶτον μὲν ἀλήθεια, ἣν διώκειν αὐτὸν πάντως καὶ πάντῃ ἔδει ἢ ἀλαζόνι ὄντι μηδαμῇ μετεῖναι φιλοσοφίας ἀληθινῆς.
Truth, if you remember, was leading for him first of all, which he had to pursue in every way and altogether, or else, being a charlatan, have no share at all in true philosophy.
ἦν γὰρ οὕτω λεγόμενον.
For that was indeed said so.
οὐκοῦν ἓν μὲν τοῦτο σφόδρα οὕτω παρὰ δόξαν τοῖς νῦν δοκουμένοις περὶ αὐτοῦ; καὶ μάλα, ἔφη.
Is not this one thing, then, very much contrary to what is now thought about him?" "Very much so," he said.
ἆρʼ οὖν δὴ οὐ μετρίως ἀπολογησόμεθα ὅτι πρὸς τὸ ὂν πεφυκὼς εἴη ἁμιλλᾶσθαι ὅ γε ὄντως φιλομαθής, καὶ οὐκ ἐπιμένοι ἐπὶ τοῖς δοξαζομένοις εἶναι πολλοῖς ἑκάστοις, ἀλλʼ ἴοι καὶ οὐκ ἀμβλύνοιτο οὐδʼ ἀπολήγοι τοῦ ἔρωτος, πρὶν αὐτοῦ ὃ ἔστιν ἑκάστου τῆς φύσεως ἅψασθαι ᾧ προσήκει ψυχῆς ἐφάπτεσθαι τοῦ τοιούτου—προσήκει δὲ συγγενεῖ— ᾧ πλησιάσας καὶ μιγεὶς τῷ ὄντι ὄντως, γεννήσας νοῦν καὶ ἀλήθειαν, γνοίη τε καὶ ἀληθῶς ζῴη καὶ τρέφοιτο καὶ οὕτω λήγοι ὠδῖνος, πρὶν δʼ οὔ; ὡς οἷόν τʼ, ἔφη, μετριώτατα.
"Shall we not, then, make a reasonable defense that the one who is truly a lover of learning is naturally directed to strive toward that which is, and does not remain among the many particulars that are believed to be, but goes on and is not blunted nor ceases from his passion, until he grasps that which is the nature of each thing itself, by that part of the soul to which it belongs to grasp such a thing—and it belongs to what is akin to it—with which having drawn near and mingled with that which truly is, having begotten intellect and truth, he would know and truly live and be nourished, and thus cease from his birth-pangs, but not before?" "As reasonably as possible," he said.
τί οὖν;
"What then?
τούτῳ τι μετέσται ψεῦδος ἀγαπᾶν ἢ πᾶν τοὐναντίον μισεῖν; μισεῖν, ἔφη.
Will this man have any share in loving falsehood, or, quite the contrary, in hating it?" "Hating it," he said.
ἡγουμένης δὴ ἀληθείας οὐκ ἄν ποτε οἶμαι φαμὲν αὐτῇ χορὸν κακῶν ἀκολουθῆσαι. πῶς γάρ; ἀλλʼ ὑγιές τε καὶ δίκαιον ἦθος, ᾧ καὶ σωφροσύνην ἕπεσθαι. ὀρθῶς, ἔφη.
"With truth leading, then, I do not think we would ever say a chorus of evils followed her." "For how could it?" "But a healthy and just character, which temperance also follows." "Correct," he said.
καὶ δὴ τὸν ἄλλον τῆς φιλοσόφου φύσεως χορὸν τί δεῖ πάλιν ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἀναγκάζοντα τάττειν;
"And indeed, why is there any need to arrange the rest of the chorus of the philosophical nature again from the beginning by force?
μέμνησαι γάρ που ὅτι συνέβη προσῆκον τούτοις ἀνδρεία, μεγαλοπρέπεια, εὐμάθεια, μνήμη·
For you remember, I suppose, that courage, high-mindedness, quickness of learning, and memory turned out to belong to them.
καὶ σοῦ ἐπιλαβομένου ὅτι πᾶς μὲν ἀναγκασθήσεται ὁμολογεῖν οἷς λέγομεν, ἐάσας δὲ τοὺς λόγους, εἰς αὐτοὺς ἀποβλέψας περὶ ὧν ὁ λόγος, φαίη ὁρᾶν αὐτῶν τοὺς μὲν ἀχρήστους, τοὺς δὲ πολλοὺς κακοὺς πᾶσαν κακίαν, τῆς διαβολῆς τὴν αἰτίαν ἐπισκοποῦντες ἐπὶ τούτῳ νῦν γεγόναμεν, τί ποθʼ οἱ πολλοὶ κακοί, καὶ τούτου δὴ ἕνεκα πάλιν ἀνειλήφαμεν τὴν τῶν ἀληθῶς φιλοσόφων φύσιν καὶ ἐξ ἀνάγκης ὡρισάμεθα. ἔστιν, ἔφη, ταῦτα.
And when you took me up, saying that while everyone will be forced to agree with what we say, yet if they dismiss words and look at those very people whom the argument is about, they would say they see some of them to be useless, and most of them to be bad in every kind of badness—we have now come to this point, investigating the cause of this slander, why indeed the majority are bad; and for the sake of this we have taken up again the nature of those who are truly philosophers, and of necessity defined it." "That is so," he said.
§6.491ταύτης δή, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τῆς φύσεως δεῖ θεάσασθαι τὰς φθοράς, ὡς διόλλυται ἐν πολλοῖς, σμικρὸν δέ τι ἐκφεύγει, οὓς δὴ καὶ οὐ πονηρούς, ἀχρήστους δὲ καλοῦσι·
"Of this nature, then," I said, "we must observe the corruptions, how it is destroyed in many, while some small part escapes, those whom they call indeed not wicked, but useless.
καὶ μετὰ τοῦτο αὖ τὰς μιμουμένας ταύτην καὶ εἰς τὸ ἐπιτήδευμα καθισταμένας αὐτῆς, οἷαι οὖσαι φύσεις ψυχῶν εἰς ἀνάξιον καὶ μεῖζον ἑαυτῶν ἀφικνούμεναι ἐπιτήδευμα, πολλαχῇ πλημμελοῦσαι, πανταχῇ καὶ ἐπὶ πάντας δόξαν οἵαν λέγεις φιλοσοφίᾳ προσῆψαν. τίνας δέ, ἔφη, τὰς διαφθορὰς λέγεις;
And after this, in turn, those who imitate this nature and establish themselves in its pursuit—what kind of natures of souls they are who, arriving at a pursuit that is unworthy of them and greater than themselves, stumbling in many ways, have everywhere and among all people attached to philosophy the kind of reputation you speak of." "And what corruptions do you mean?" he said.
ἐγώ σοι, εἶπον, ἂν οἷός τε γένωμαι, πειράσομαι διελθεῖν.
"I will try to go through them for you," I said, "if I am able.
τόδε μὲν οὖν οἶμαι πᾶς ἡμῖν ὁμολογήσει, τοιαύτην φύσιν καὶ πάντα ἔχουσαν ὅσα προσετάξαμεν νυνδή, εἰ τελέως μέλλοι φιλόσοφος γενέσθαι, ὀλιγάκις ἐν ἀνθρώποις φύεσθαι καὶ ὀλίγας.
Now this, I think, everyone will agree with us: such a nature, possessing all the things we just prescribed, if it is to become perfectly philosopher, grows rarely among human beings, and they are few.
ἢ οὐκ οἴει; σφόδρα γε. τούτων δὴ τῶν ὀλίγων σκόπει ὡς πολλοὶ ὄλεθροι καὶ μεγάλοι. τίνες δή; ὃ μὲν πάντων θαυμαστότατον ἀκοῦσαι, ὅτι ἓν ἕκαστον ὧν ἐπῃνέσαμεν τῆς φύσεως ἀπόλλυσι τὴν ἔχουσαν ψυχὴν καὶ ἀποσπᾷ φιλοσοφίας.
Or do you not think so?" "Very much so." "Of these few, then, observe how many and great are the destructions." "Which ones, indeed?" "The most wonderful of all to hear: that each single one of the qualities we praised in that nature destroys the soul that possesses it, and tears it away from philosophy.
λέγω δὲ ἀνδρείαν, σωφροσύνην καὶ πάντα ἃ διήλθομεν. ἄτοπον, ἔφη, ἀκοῦσαι.
I mean courage, temperance, and all the things we went through." "Strange to hear," he said.
ἔτι τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πρὸς τούτοις τὰ λεγόμενα ἀγαθὰ πάντα φθείρει καὶ ἀποσπᾷ, κάλλος καὶ πλοῦτος καὶ ἰσχὺς σώματος καὶ συγγένεια ἐρρωμένη ἐν πόλει καὶ πάντα τὰ τούτων οἰκεῖα· ἔχεις γὰρ τὸν τύπον ὧν λέγω. ἔχω, ἔφη· καὶ ἡδέως γʼ ἂν ἀκριβέστερον ἃ λέγεις πυθοίμην.
"Furthermore, then," I said, "in addition to these, all the so-called goods corrupt and tear away: beauty, wealth, bodily strength, a powerful family connection in the city, and all things akin to these.
λαβοῦ τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὅλου αὐτοῦ ὀρθῶς, καί σοι εὔδηλόν τε φανεῖται καὶ οὐκ ἄτοπα δόξει τὰ προειρημένα περὶ αὐτῶν. πῶς οὖν, ἔφη, κελεύεις; παντός, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, σπέρματος πέρι ἢ φυτοῦ, εἴτε ἐγγείων εἴτε τῶν ζῴων, ἴσμεν ὅτι τὸ μὴ τυχὸν τροφῆς ἧς προσήκει ἑκάστῳ μηδʼ ὥρας μηδὲ τόπου, ὅσῳ ἂν ἐρρωμενέστερον ᾖ, τοσούτῳ πλειόνων ἐνδεῖ τῶν πρεπόντων· ἀγαθῷ γάρ που κακὸν ἐναντιώτερον ἢ τῷ μὴ ἀγαθῷ. πῶς δʼ οὔ; ἔχει δὴ οἶμαι λόγον τὴν ἀρίστην φύσιν ἐν ἀλλοτριωτέρᾳ οὖσαν τροφῇ κάκιον ἀπαλλάττειν τῆς φαύλης. ἔχει. οὐκοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Ἀδείμαντε, καὶ τὰς ψυχὰς οὕτω φῶμεν τὰς εὐφυεστάτας κακῆς παιδαγωγίας τυχούσας διαφερόντως κακὰς γίγνεσθαι;
For you have the general outline of what I mean." "I have it," he said, "and I would gladly learn more accurately what you mean." "Grasp it, then," I said, "rightly as a whole, and it will appear clear to you and what was said before about them will not seem strange." "How then," he said, "do you direct me?" "Regarding every seed or plant," I said, "whether of things in the earth or of animals, we know that that which does not obtain the nourishment proper to each, nor the right season nor place, the stronger it is, the more it lacks its proper things; for evil is surely more contrary to the good than to the non-good." "How could it not be?" "It is reasonable, then, I think, that the best nature, when it is in an alien nourishment, fares worse than a base nature." "It is." "Shall we not, then, Adeimantus," I said, "say also in the same way that the most naturally gifted souls, when they meet with bad upbringing, become outstandingly bad?
ἢ οἴει τὰ μεγάλα ἀδικήματα καὶ τὴν ἄκρατον πονηρίαν ἐκ φαύλης ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐκ νεανικῆς φύσεως τροφῇ διολομένης γίγνεσθαι, ἀσθενῆ δὲ φύσιν μεγάλων οὔτε ἀγαθῶν οὔτε κακῶν αἰτίαν ποτὲ ἔσεσθαι; οὔκ, ἀλλά, ἦ δʼ ὅς, οὕτως.
Or do you think that great injustices and unmixed wickedness come from a base nature, and not from a vigorous nature ruined by upbringing, while a weak nature will never be the cause of any great things, either good or bad?" "No," he said, "it is as you say."