§5.467πρὸς δὲ τῇ θέᾳ διακονεῖν καὶ ὑπηρετεῖν πάντα τὰ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον, καὶ θεραπεύειν πατέρας τε καὶ μητέρας.
“And in addition to observing, they are to serve and assist in all matters concerning war, and to care for their fathers and mothers.
ἢ οὐκ ᾔσθησαι τὰ περὶ τὰς τέχνας, οἷον τοὺς τῶν κεραμέων παῖδας, ὡς πολὺν χρόνον διακονοῦντες θεωροῦσι πρὶν ἅπτεσθαι τοῦ κεραμεύειν; καὶ μάλα. ἦ οὖν ἐκείνοις ἐπιμελέστερον παιδευτέον ἢ τοῖς φύλαξι τοὺς αὑτῶν ἐμπειρίᾳ τε καὶ θέᾳ τῶν προσηκόντων; καταγέλαστον μεντἄν, ἔφη, εἴη. ἀλλὰ μὴν καὶ μαχεῖταί γε πᾶν ζῷον διαφερόντως παρόντων ὧν ἂν τέκῃ.
Or have you not noticed what happens in the arts, for instance the children of potters, how for a long time they serve and look on before they touch the making of pottery?” “Indeed I have.” “Should they, then, educate their own children with more care through experience and observation of what is fitting than the guardians do?” “That would indeed be ridiculous,” he said. “And yet, every animal fights remarkably better in the presence of its offspring.” “It is so.
ἔστιν οὕτω. κίνδυνος δέ, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐ σμικρὸς σφαλεῖσιν, οἷα δὴ ἐν πολέμῳ φιλεῖ, πρὸς ἑαυτοῖς παῖδας ἀπολέσαντας ποιῆσαι καὶ τὴν ἄλλην πόλιν ἀδύνατον ἀναλαβεῖν. ἀληθῆ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, λέγεις. ἀλλὰ σὺ πρῶτον μὲν ἡγῇ παρασκευαστέον τὸ μή ποτε κινδυνεῦσαι; οὐδαμῶς. τί δʼ;
But there is a danger, Socrates, and not a small one for those who fail, as is wont to happen in war, that they will bring about the loss of their children along with themselves and make it impossible for the rest of the city to recover.” “What you say is true,” I said. “But first of all, do you think we must arrange things so as never to run risks?” “By no means.” “What then?
εἴ που κινδυνευτέον, οὐκ ἐν ᾧ βελτίους ἔσονται κατορθοῦντες; δῆλον δή. ἀλλὰ σμικρὸν οἴει διαφέρειν καὶ οὐκ ἄξιον κινδύνου θεωρεῖν ἢ μὴ τὰ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον παῖδας τοὺς ἄνδρας πολεμικοὺς ἐσομένους; οὔκ, ἀλλὰ διαφέρει πρὸς ὃ λέγεις.
If risks must be run, is it not in those matters where they will become better if they succeed?” “Clearly so.” “But do you think it makes a small difference, and is not worth the risk, whether children who are to be warlike men observe the things concerning war or not?” “No, indeed, it makes a great difference for what you say.” “This, then, must be our starting point: to make the children spectators of war, but to devise safety for them, and all will be well.
τοῦτο μὲν ἄρα ὑπαρκτέον, θεωροὺς πολέμου τοὺς παῖδας ποιεῖν, προσμηχανᾶσθαι δʼ αὐτοῖς ἀσφάλειαν, καὶ καλῶς ἕξει· ἦ γάρ; ναί. οὐκοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πρῶτον μὲν αὐτῶν οἱ πατέρες, ὅσα ἄνθρωποι, οὐκ ἀμαθεῖς ἔσονται ἀλλὰ γνωμονικοὶ τῶν στρατειῶν ὅσαι τε καὶ μὴ ἐπικίνδυνοι; εἰκός, ἔφη. εἰς μὲν ἄρα τὰς ἄξουσιν, εἰς δὲ τὰς εὐλαβήσονται. ὀρθῶς. καὶ ἄρχοντάς γέ που, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὐ τοὺς φαυλοτάτους αὐτοῖς ἐπιστήσουσιν ἀλλὰ τοὺς ἐμπειρίᾳ τε καὶ ἡλικίᾳ ἱκανοὺς ἡγεμόνας τε καὶ παιδαγωγοὺς εἶναι. πρέπει γάρ. ἀλλὰ γάρ, φήσομεν, καὶ παρὰ δόξαν πολλὰ πολλοῖς δὴ ἐγένετο. καὶ μάλα. πρὸς τοίνυν τὰ τοιαῦτα, ὦ φίλε, πτεροῦν χρὴ παιδία ὄντα εὐθύς, ἵνʼ, ἄν τι δέῃ, πετόμενοι ἀποφεύγωσιν. πῶς λέγεις; ἔφη. ἐπὶ τοὺς ἵππους, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀναβιβαστέον ὡς νεωτάτους, καὶ διδαξαμένους ἱππεύειν ἐφʼ ἵππων ἀκτέον ἐπὶ τὴν θέαν, μὴ θυμοειδῶν μηδὲ μαχητικῶν, ἀλλʼ ὅτι ποδωκεστάτων καὶ εὐηνιωτάτων.
Is that not so?” “Yes.” “Now, first of all,” I said, “will their fathers, so far as humans can, not be ignorant but rather discerning about which campaigns are dangerous and which are not?” “It is likely,” he said. “Into some, then, they will lead them, but from others they will cautiously keep them away.” “Right.” “And they will surely set over them as commanders,” I said, “not the most worthless men, but those who are sufficient by experience and age to be leaders and tutors.” “For that is fitting.” “But indeed, we will say, many things happen contrary to expectation to many people.” “Very much so.” “To meet such occurrences, then, my friend, we must provide the children with wings immediately while they are young, so that, if any need arises, they may fly away and escape.” “How do you mean?” he said. “They must be mounted on horses,” I said, “at the youngest possible age, and when they have been taught to ride, they must be led on horseback to the observation, not on high-spirited or combative horses, but on those that are fleetest and most obedient.
οὕτω γὰρ κάλλιστά τε θεάσονται τὸ αὑτῶν ἔργον, καὶ ἀσφαλέστατα, ἄν τι δέῃ, σωθήσονται μετὰ πρεσβυτέρων ἡγεμόνων ἑπόμενοι. ὀρθῶς, ἔφη, μοι δοκεῖς λέγειν.
For in this way they will observe their own future work most beautifully, and in case of need, they will escape most safely, following their older leaders.” “You seem to me to speak correctly,” he said.
§5.468τί δὲ δή, εἶπον, τὰ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον; πῶς ἑκτέον σοι τοὺς στρατιώτας πρὸς αὑτούς τε καὶ τοὺς πολεμίους;
“But what about the matters of war?” I said. “How must your soldiers behave toward themselves and toward the enemy?
ἆρʼ ὀρθῶς μοι καταφαίνεται ἢ οὔ; λέγʼ, ἔφη, ποῖʼ αὖ. αὐτῶν μέν, εἶπον, τὸν λιπόντα τάξιν ἢ ὅπλα ἀποβαλόντα ἤ τι τῶν τοιούτων ποιήσαντα διὰ κάκην ἆρα οὐ δημιουργόν τινα δεῖ καθιστάναι ἢ γεωργόν; πάνυ μὲν οὖν. τὸν δὲ ζῶντα εἰς τοὺς πολεμίους ἁλόντα ἆρʼ οὐ δωρεὰν διδόναι τοῖς ἑλοῦσι χρῆσθαι τῇ ἄγρᾳ ὅτι ἂν βούλωνται; κομιδῇ γε. τὸν δὲ ἀριστεύσαντά τε καὶ εὐδοκιμήσαντα οὐ πρῶτον μὲν ἐπὶ στρατιᾶς ὑπὸ τῶν συστρατευομένων μειρακίων τε καὶ παίδων ἐν μέρει ὑπὸ ἑκάστου δοκεῖ σοι χρῆναι στεφανωθῆναι;
Does my view appear correct to you or not?” “Tell me,” he said, “what view you mean.” “Of their own number,” I said, “if anyone deserts his post or throws away his arms or does anything of that sort through cowardice, must we not make him some kind of artisan or husbandman?” “Entirely so.” “And the one who is taken alive by the enemy, should we not give him as a present to his captors, to use their catch in whatever way they wish?” “Absolutely.” “And the one who has distinguished himself and gained a high reputation, do you not think that first of all, on the campaign, he should be crowned by each of the young men and children who are serving with him, in turn?
ἢ οὔ; ἔμοιγε. τί δέ; δεξιωθῆναι; καὶ τοῦτο. ἀλλὰ τόδʼ οἶμαι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὐκέτι σοι δοκεῖ. τὸ ποῖον; τὸ φιλῆσαί τε καὶ φιληθῆναι ὑπὸ ἑκάστου. πάντων, ἔφη, μάλιστα· καὶ προστίθημί γε τῷ νόμῳ, ἕως ἂν ἐπὶ ταύτης ὦσι τῆς στρατιᾶς, καὶ μηδενὶ ἐξεῖναι ἀπαρνηθῆναι ὃν ἂν βούληται φιλεῖν, ἵνα καί, ἐάν τίς του τύχῃ ἐρῶν ἢ ἄρρενος ἢ θηλείας, προθυμότερος ᾖ πρὸς τὸ τἀριστεῖα φέρειν. καλῶς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ. ὅτι μὲν γὰρ ἀγαθῷ ὄντι γάμοι τε ἕτοιμοι πλείους ἢ τοῖς ἄλλοις καὶ αἱρέσεις τῶν τοιούτων πολλάκις παρὰ τοὺς ἄλλους ἔσονται, ἵνʼ ὅτι πλεῖστοι ἐκ τοῦ τοιούτου γίγνωνται, εἴρηται ἤδη. εἴπομεν γάρ, ἔφη.
Or do you not think so?” “I do indeed.” “And what about being given the right hand?” “That too.” “But this next thing, I suppose,” I said, “you will no longer agree with.” “What is that?” “That he should kiss and be kissed by each one.” “Most of all,” he said. “And indeed, I add this to the law: that as long as they are on this campaign, it shall not be permitted for anyone to refuse whomever he wishes to kiss, so that if anyone happens to be in love with someone, whether male or female, he may be more eager to win the prizes of valor.” “Excellent,” I said. “For that more marriages are ready for the good man than for others, and choices of such partners will be given to them more often than to others, in order that as many children as possible may be born from such a parent, has already been said.” “Yes, we said so,” he said. “And indeed, even according to Homer, it is just to honor those of the young who are good.
ἀλλὰ μὴν καὶ καθʼ Ὅμηρον τοῖς τοιοῖσδε δίκαιον τιμᾶν τῶν νέων ὅσοι ἀγαθοί. καὶ γὰρ Ὅμηρος τὸν εὐδοκιμήσαντα ἐν τῷ πολέμῳ
"νώτοισιν"
Αἴαντα ἔφη
"διηνεκέεσσι γεραίρεσθαι,"
ὡς ταύτην οἰκείαν οὖσαν τιμὴν τῷ ἡβῶντί τε καὶ ἀνδρείῳ, ἐξ ἧς ἅμα τῷ τιμᾶσθαι καὶ τὴν ἰσχὺν αὐξήσει. ὀρθότατα, ἔφη. πεισόμεθα ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ταῦτά γε Ὁμήρῳ.
For Homer said that Ajax, who had distinguished himself in the war, was ‘honored with long chines of beef,’ as this was a fitting honor for a young and brave man, from which, while being honored, he would also increase his strength.” “Most correct,” he said. “We shall then believe Homer,” I said, “in these matters at least.
καὶ γὰρ ἡμεῖς ἔν τε θυσίαις καὶ τοῖς τοιούτοις πᾶσι τοὺς ἀγαθούς, καθʼ ὅσον ἂν ἀγαθοὶ φαίνωνται, καὶ ὕμνοις καὶ οἷς νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν τιμήσομεν, πρὸς δὲ τούτοις
"ἕδραις τε καὶ κρέασιν"
"ἰδὲ πλείοις δεπάεσσιν,"
ἵνα ἅμα τῷ τιμᾶν ἀσκῶμεν τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς ἄνδρας τε καὶ γυναῖκας. κάλλιστα, ἔφη, λέγεις. εἶεν·
For we too, at sacrifices and all such occasions, will honor the good, insofar as they appear good, both with hymns and the things we just spoke of, and in addition to these, with ‘seats of honor and meats and full cups,’ so that while honoring them, we may train our good men and women.” “You speak most beautifully,” he said. “Very well.
τῶν δὲ δὴ ἀποθανόντων ἐπὶ στρατιᾶς ὃς ἂν εὐδοκιμήσας τελευτήσῃ ἆρʼ οὐ πρῶτον μὲν φήσομεν τοῦ χρυσοῦ γένους εἶναι; πάντων γε μάλιστα.
Of those who die on a campaign, if anyone ends his life after having distinguished himself, shall we not say, first of all, that he belongs to the golden race?” “Most assuredly.”