§4.427καὶ μήν, ἔφη, οὐκ ἄλλο γέ τι ποιοῦσιν. ἐγὼ μὲν τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τὸ τοιοῦτον εἶδος νόμων πέρι καὶ πολιτείας οὔτʼ ἐν κακῶς οὔτʼ ἐν εὖ πολιτευομένῃ πόλει ᾤμην ἂν δεῖν τὸν ἀληθινὸν νομοθέτην πραγματεύεσθαι, ἐν τῇ μὲν ὅτι ἀνωφελῆ καὶ πλέον οὐδέν, ἐν δὲ τῇ ὅτι τὰ μὲν αὐτῶν κἂν ὁστισοῦν εὕροι, τὰ δὲ ὅτι αὐτόματα ἔπεισιν ἐκ τῶν ἔμπροσθεν ἐπιτηδευμάτων. τί οὖν, ἔφη, ἔτι ἂν ἡμῖν λοιπὸν τῆς νομοθεσίας εἴη; καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον ὅτι ἡμῖν μὲν οὐδέν, τῷ μέντοι Ἀπόλλωνι τῷ ἐν Δελφοῖς τά γε μέγιστα καὶ κάλλιστα καὶ πρῶτα τῶν νομοθετημάτων. τὰ ποῖα;
"And indeed," he said, "they are doing nothing else." "Therefore," I said, "as for this kind of laws and constitution, I should think that the true legislator ought not to busy himself with them either in a badly governed city or in a well-governed one; in the one because they are useless and achieve nothing more, and in the other because some of them anyone at all could discover, and others will follow automatically from their previous habits." "What then," he said, "would still be left for us in the way of legislation?" And I said, "For us, nothing; but for Apollo at Delphi, there remain the greatest, finest, and most primary of legislations." "What kind of things?" he said.
ἦ δʼ ὅς. ἱερῶν τε ἱδρύσεις καὶ θυσίαι καὶ ἄλλαι θεῶν τε καὶ δαιμόνων καὶ ἡρώων θεραπεῖαι·
"The founding of temples, sacrifices, and other services to gods, daimons, and heroes; and again, the graves of the deceased and all that we must perform for those in the other world to keep them propitious.
τελευτησάντων τε αὖ θῆκαι καὶ ὅσα τοῖς ἐκεῖ δεῖ ὑπηρετοῦντας ἵλεως αὐτοὺς ἔχειν. τὰ γὰρ δὴ τοιαῦτα οὔτʼ ἐπιστάμεθα ἡμεῖς οἰκίζοντές τε πόλιν οὐδενὶ ἄλλῳ πεισόμεθα, ἐὰν νοῦν ἔχωμεν, οὐδὲ χρησόμεθα ἐξηγητῇ ἀλλʼ ἢ τῷ πατρίῳ· οὗτος γὰρ δήπου ὁ θεὸς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις πάτριος ἐξηγητὴς τῆς γῆς ἐπὶ τοῦ ὀμφαλοῦ καθήμενος ἐξηγεῖται. καὶ καλῶς γʼ, ἔφη, λέγεις· καὶ ποιητέον οὕτω.
For such things we ourselves do not know, and in founding our city, we shall not obey any other, if we have sense, nor shall we use any other guide than our ancestral one; for this god, surely, sits on the navel of the earth and acts as the ancestral guide in such matters for all mankind." "And you speak well," he said; "and so we must do." "Then, indeed," I said, "your city would now be founded, O son of Ariston.
ὠικισμένη μὲν τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἤδη ἄν σοι εἴη, ὦ παῖ Ἀρίστωνος, ἡ πόλις· τὸ δὲ δὴ μετὰ τοῦτο σκόπει ἐν αὐτῇ, φῶς ποθὲν πορισάμενος ἱκανόν, αὐτός τε καὶ τὸν ἀδελφὸν παρακάλει καὶ Πολέμαρχον καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους, ἐάν πως ἴδωμεν ποῦ ποτʼ ἂν εἴη ἡ δικαιοσύνη καὶ ποῦ ἡ ἀδικία, καὶ τί ἀλλήλοιν διαφέρετον, καὶ πότερον δεῖ κεκτῆσθαι τὸν μέλλοντα εὐδαίμονα εἶναι, ἐάντε λανθάνῃ ἐάντε μὴ πάντας θεούς τε καὶ ἀνθρώπους. οὐδὲν λέγεις, ἔφη ὁ Γλαύκων· σὺ γὰρ ὑπέσχου ζητήσειν, ὡς οὐχ ὅσιόν σοι ὂν μὴ οὐ βοηθεῖν δικαιοσύνῃ εἰς δύναμιν παντὶ τρόπῳ. ἀληθῆ, ἔφην ἐγώ, ὑπομιμνῄσκεις, καὶ ποιητέον μέν γε οὕτως, χρὴ δὲ καὶ ὑμᾶς συλλαμβάνειν. ἀλλʼ, ἔφη, ποιήσομεν οὕτω.
But after this, look inside it, having provided yourself with sufficient light from somewhere, and summon both your brother and Polemarchus and the others, to see if we can somehow perceive where justice might be and where injustice, and how they differ from one another, and which of the two the one who is to be happy must possess, whether he escapes the notice of all gods and men or not." Glaucon said, "You are saying nothing; for you promised to search for it, since it would not be holy for you not to aid justice with all your power in every way." "You remind me of the truth," I said, "and indeed we must do so, but you too must help." "But," he said, "we will do so." "Then I hope," I said, "to find it in this way.
ἐλπίζω τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εὑρήσειν αὐτὸ ὧδε. οἶμαι ἡμῖν τὴν πόλιν, εἴπερ ὀρθῶς γε ᾤκισται, τελέως ἀγαθὴν εἶναι.
I think our city, if indeed it has been correctly founded, is perfectly good." "Necessarily so," he said.
ἀνάγκη γʼ, ἔφη. δῆλον δὴ ὅτι σοφή τʼ ἐστὶ καὶ ἀνδρεία καὶ σώφρων καὶ δικαία. δῆλον. οὐκοῦν ὅτι ἂν αὐτῶν εὕρωμεν ἐν αὐτῇ, τὸ ὑπόλοιπον ἔσται τὸ οὐχ ηὑρημένον; §4.428τί μήν; ὥσπερ τοίνυν ἄλλων τινῶν τεττάρων, εἰ ἕν τι ἐζητοῦμεν αὐτῶν ἐν ὁτῳοῦν, ὁπότε πρῶτον ἐκεῖνο ἔγνωμεν, ἱκανῶς ἂν εἶχεν ἡμῖν, εἰ δὲ τὰ τρία πρότερον ἐγνωρίσαμεν, αὐτῷ ἂν τούτῳ ἐγνώριστο τὸ ζητούμενον· δῆλον γὰρ ὅτι οὐκ ἄλλο ἔτι ἦν ἢ τὸ ὑπολειφθέν.
"It is clear, then, that it is wise, courageous, moderate, and just." "Clear." "Therefore, whichever of these we find in it, will the remainder be that which has not been found?" "How otherwise?" "Therefore, just as with any other four things, if we were searching for one of them in something or other, as soon as we recognized that one, we would be satisfied; but if we recognized the other three first, by this very fact the one sought would have been recognized, for it is clear that it was no longer anything else than what was left." "You speak correctly," he said.
ὀρθῶς, ἔφη, λέγεις. οὐκοῦν καὶ περὶ τούτων, ἐπειδὴ τέτταρα ὄντα τυγχάνει, ὡσαύτως ζητητέον; δῆλα δή. καὶ μὲν δὴ πρῶτόν γέ μοι δοκεῖ ἐν αὐτῷ κατάδηλον εἶναι ἡ σοφία· καί τι ἄτοπον περὶ αὐτὴν φαίνεται. τί;
"Therefore, concerning these also, since they happen to be four, must we search in the same way?" "Clearly so." "And indeed first of all, it seems to me that wisdom is clearly manifest in it; and something strange appears concerning it." "What?" he said.
ἦ δʼ ὅς. σοφὴ μὲν τῷ ὄντι δοκεῖ μοι ἡ πόλις εἶναι ἣν διήλθομεν· εὔβουλος γάρ, οὐχί; ναί. καὶ μὴν τοῦτό γε αὐτό, ἡ εὐβουλία, δῆλον ὅτι ἐπιστήμη τίς ἐστιν· οὐ γάρ που ἀμαθίᾳ γε ἀλλʼ ἐπιστήμῃ εὖ βουλεύονται. δῆλον. πολλαὶ δέ γε καὶ παντοδαπαὶ ἐπιστῆμαι ἐν τῇ πόλει εἰσίν. πῶς γὰρ οὔ; ἆρʼ οὖν διὰ τὴν τῶν τεκτόνων ἐπιστήμην σοφὴ καὶ εὔβουλος ἡ πόλις προσρητέα; οὐδαμῶς, ἔφη, διά γε ταύτην, ἀλλὰ τεκτονική. οὐκ ἄρα διὰ τὴν ὑπὲρ τῶν ξυλίνων σκευῶν ἐπιστήμην, βουλευομένη ὡς ἂν ἔχοι βέλτιστα, σοφὴ κλητέα πόλις. οὐ μέντοι. τί δέ; τὴν ὑπὲρ τῶν ἐκ τοῦ χαλκοῦ ἤ τινα ἄλλην τῶν τοιούτων;
"The city we have described seems to me to be truly wise; for it is of good counsel, is it not?" "Yes." "And indeed this very thing, good counsel, is clearly some kind of knowledge; for they surely do not counsel well through ignorance, but through knowledge." "Clear." "But there are many and various kinds of knowledge in the city." "How could there not be?" "Is it then because of the knowledge of carpenters that the city is to be called wise and of good counsel?" "By no means," he said, "not because of that, but it is called carpentry-skilled." "Therefore, the city is not to be called wise because of the knowledge concerning wooden vessels, counseling on how they might be best." "Certainly not." "What about that concerning things made of bronze, or any other of such things?" "None whatsoever," he said.
οὐδʼ ἡντινοῦν, ἔφη. οὐδὲ τὴν ὑπὲρ τοῦ καρποῦ τῆς γενέσεως ἐκ τῆς γῆς, ἀλλὰ γεωργική. δοκεῖ μοι. τί δʼ;
"Nor that concerning the production of crops from the earth, but it is called agricultural." "It seems so to me." "What then?" I said.
ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· ἔστι τις ἐπιστήμη ἐν τῇ ἄρτι ὑφʼ ἡμῶν οἰκισθείσῃ παρά τισι τῶν πολιτῶν, ᾗ οὐχ ὑπὲρ τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει τινὸς βουλεύεται, ἀλλʼ ὑπὲρ αὑτῆς ὅλης, ὅντινα τρόπον αὐτή τε πρὸς αὑτὴν καὶ πρὸς τὰς ἄλλας πόλεις ἄριστα ὁμιλοῖ; ἔστι μέντοι. τίς, ἔφην ἐγώ, καὶ ἐν τίσιν; αὕτη, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ἡ φυλακική, καὶ ἐν τούτοις τοῖς ἄρχουσιν οὓς νυνδὴ τελέους φύλακας ὠνομάζομεν. διὰ ταύτην οὖν τὴν ἐπιστήμην τί τὴν πόλιν προσαγορεύεις; εὔβουλον, ἔφη, καὶ τῷ ὄντι σοφήν. πότερον οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐν τῇ πόλει οἴει ἡμῖν χαλκέας πλείους ἐνέσεσθαι ἢ τοὺς ἀληθινοὺς φύλακας τούτους; πολύ, ἔφη, χαλκέας.
"Is there any knowledge in the city we have just founded, held by some of its citizens, by which it counsels not about any particular thing in the city, but about the whole of itself, in what way it might best conduct itself both towards itself and towards other cities?" "There is indeed." "What is it," I said, "and in whom is it?" "It is this," he said, "the guardianship, and it is in those rulers whom we just now named perfect guardians." "Because of this knowledge, then, what do you call the city?" "Of good counsel," he said, "and truly wise." "Which then," I said, "do you think will be more numerous in our city, blacksmiths or these true guardians?" "Blacksmiths by far," he said.
οὐκοῦν, ἔφην, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ὅσοι ἐπιστήμας ἔχοντες ὀνομάζονταί τινες εἶναι, πάντων τούτων οὗτοι ἂν εἶεν ὀλίγιστοι; πολύ γε.
"Therefore," I said, "of all those who possess knowledge and are called by some name, would these be the fewest of all?" "By far indeed."