§4.423δύο μέν, κἂν ὁτιοῦν ᾖ, πολεμία ἀλλήλαις, ἡ μὲν πενήτων, ἡ δὲ πλουσίων·
Two, indeed, whatever they may be, are hostile to one another, the one of the poor, and the other of the rich.
τούτων δʼ ἐν ἑκατέρᾳ πάνυ πολλαί, αἷς ἐὰν μὲν ὡς μιᾷ προσφέρῃ, παντὸς ἂν ἁμάρτοις, ἐὰν δὲ ὡς πολλαῖς, διδοὺς τὰ τῶν ἑτέρων τοῖς ἑτέροις χρήματά τε καὶ δυνάμεις ἢ καὶ αὐτούς, συμμάχοις μὲν ἀεὶ πολλοῖς χρήσῃ, πολεμίοις δʼ ὀλίγοις.
In each of these there are very many, which if you approach as one, you will completely miss the mark, but if as many, giving the possessions and powers or even the persons of the ones to the others, you will always make use of many allies and few enemies.
καὶ ἕως ἂν ἡ πόλις σοι οἰκῇ σωφρόνως ὡς ἄρτι ἐτάχθη, μεγίστη ἔσται, οὐ τῷ εὐδοκιμεῖν λέγω, ἀλλʼ ὡς ἀληθῶς μεγίστη, καὶ ἐὰν μόνον ᾖ χιλίων τῶν προπολεμούντων·
And as long as your city is governed temperately as was just now ordered, it will be greatest, I do not mean by reputation, but truly greatest, even if there are only a thousand of those who fight in its defense.
οὕτω γὰρ μεγάλην πόλιν μίαν οὐ ῥᾳδίως οὔτε ἐν Ἕλλησιν οὔτε ἐν βαρβάροις εὑρήσεις, δοκούσας δὲ πολλὰς καὶ πολλαπλασίας τῆς τηλικαύτης.
For you will not easily find one such great city either among the Greeks or among the barbarians, though you will find many that seem to be so and many times larger than one of this size.
ἢ ἄλλως οἴει;
Or do you think otherwise?
οὐ μὰ τὸν Δίʼ, ἔφη.
"No, by Zeus," he said.
οὐκοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὗτος ἂν εἴη καὶ κάλλιστος ὅρος τοῖς ἡμετέροις ἄρχουσιν, ὅσην δεῖ τὸ μέγεθος τὴν πόλιν ποιεῖσθαι καὶ ἡλίκῃ οὔσῃ ὅσην χώραν ἀφορισαμένους τὴν ἄλλην χαίρειν ἐᾶν. τίς, ἔφη, ὅρος;
"Therefore," I said, "this would be the best limit for our rulers, to what size they ought to make the city, and when it is of that size, how much land they should set apart and let the rest go." "What limit?" he said.
οἶμαι μέν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τόνδε· μέχρι οὗ ἂν ἐθέλῃ αὐξομένη εἶναι μία, μέχρι τούτου αὔξειν, πέρα δὲ μή. καὶ καλῶς γʼ, ἔφη.
"I think," I said, "this one: up to the point where, as it grows, it is willing to remain one, up to that point to let it grow, but not beyond." "And well said," he said.
οὐκοῦν καὶ τοῦτο αὖ ἄλλο πρόσταγμα τοῖς φύλαξι προστάξομεν, φυλάττειν παντὶ τρόπῳ ὅπως μήτε σμικρὰ ἡ πόλις ἔσται μήτε μεγάλη δοκοῦσα, ἀλλά τις ἱκανὴ καὶ μία. καὶ φαῦλόν γʼ, ἔφη, ἴσως αὐτοῖς προστάξομεν.
"Therefore, we will also impose this other command on the guardians, to guard in every way that the city shall be neither small nor seem great, but some adequate and single city." "And a trivial task, perhaps, we shall command them," he said.
καὶ τούτου γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἔτι φαυλότερον τόδε, οὗ καὶ ἐν τῷ πρόσθεν ἐπεμνήσθημεν λέγοντες ὡς δέοι, ἐάντε τῶν φυλάκων τις φαῦλος ἔκγονος γένηται, εἰς τοὺς ἄλλους αὐτὸν ἀποπέμπεσθαι, ἐάντʼ ἐκ τῶν ἄλλων σπουδαῖος, εἰς τοὺς φύλακας.
"And still more trivial than this," I said, "is the following, of which we also made mention before, saying that if a worthless offspring is born of the guardians, he must be sent away to the others, and if a worthy one is born of the others, to the guardians.
τοῦτο δʼ ἐβούλετο δηλοῦν ὅτι καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους πολίτας, πρὸς ὅ τις πέφυκεν, πρὸς τοῦτο ἕνα πρὸς ἓν ἕκαστον ἔργον δεῖ κομίζειν, ὅπως ἂν ἓν τὸ αὑτοῦ ἐπιτηδεύων ἕκαστος μὴ πολλοὶ ἀλλʼ εἷς γίγνηται, καὶ οὕτω δὴ σύμπασα ἡ πόλις μία φύηται ἀλλὰ μὴ πολλαί. ἔστι γάρ, ἔφη, τοῦτο ἐκείνου σμικρότερον. οὔτοι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ ἀγαθὲ Ἀδείμαντε, ὡς δόξειεν ἄν τις, ταῦτα πολλὰ καὶ μεγάλα αὐτοῖς προστάττομεν ἀλλὰ πάντα φαῦλα, ἐὰν τὸ λεγόμενον ἓν μέγα φυλάττωσι, μᾶλλον δʼ ἀντὶ μεγάλου ἱκανόν. τί τοῦτο; ἔφη.
This was intended to show that the other citizens too, according to what each is naturally fitted for, must be brought each to his single work, so that each practicing his own single pursuit may become not many but one, and thus the entire city may grow to be one and not many." "Indeed," he said, "this is even smaller than that." "Not at all, my good Adeimantus," I said, "as one might think, are we commanding many and great things of them, but all of them are trivial, if they guard the so-called 'one great thing,' or rather, instead of great, the 'adequate thing.'" "What is this?" he said.
§4.424τὴν παιδείαν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ τροφήν·
"Education," I said, "and nurture.
ἐὰν γὰρ εὖ παιδευόμενοι μέτριοι ἄνδρες γίγνωνται, πάντα ταῦτα ῥᾳδίως διόψονται, καὶ ἄλλα γε ὅσα νῦν ἡμεῖς παραλείπομεν, τήν τε τῶν γυναικῶν κτῆσιν καὶ γάμων καὶ παιδοποιίας, ὅτι δεῖ ταῦτα κατὰ τὴν παροιμίαν πάντα ὅτι μάλιστα κοινὰ τὰ φίλων ποιεῖσθαι. ὀρθότατα γάρ, ἔφη, γίγνοιτʼ ἄν.
For if being well educated they become moderate men, they will easily see through all these things, and other things too as many as we now pass over—the possession of women, marriage, and the procreation of children, that these must all, according to the proverb, be made as far as possible common among friends." "For that would be most correct," he said.
καὶ μήν, εἶπον, πολιτεία ἐάνπερ ἅπαξ ὁρμήσῃ εὖ, ἔρχεται ὥσπερ κύκλος αὐξανομένη· τροφὴ γὰρ καὶ παίδευσις χρηστὴ σῳζομένη φύσεις ἀγαθὰς ἐμποιεῖ, καὶ αὖ φύσεις χρησταὶ τοιαύτης παιδείας ἀντιλαμβανόμεναι ἔτι βελτίους τῶν προτέρων φύονται, εἴς τε τἆλλα καὶ εἰς τὸ γεννᾶν, ὥσπερ καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις ζῴοις. εἰκός γʼ, ἔφη.
"And indeed," I said, "a constitution, if once it starts well, proceeds growing like a circle; for good nurture and education, being preserved, produce good natures, and in turn, good natures, receiving such education, grow to be still better than their predecessors, both in other respects and in breeding, just as in the other animals." "It is likely," he said.
ὡς τοίνυν διὰ βραχέων εἰπεῖν, τούτου ἀνθεκτέον τοῖς ἐπιμεληταῖς τῆς πόλεως, ὅπως ἂν αὐτοὺς μὴ λάθῃ διαφθαρὲν ἀλλὰ παρὰ πάντα αὐτὸ φυλάττωσι, τὸ μὴ νεωτερίζειν περὶ γυμναστικήν τε καὶ μουσικὴν παρὰ τὴν τάξιν, ἀλλʼ ὡς οἷόν τε μάλιστα φυλάττειν, φοβουμένους ὅταν τις λέγῃ ὡς τὴν
"
ἀοιδὴν μᾶλλον ἐπιφρονέουσʼ ἄνθρωποι,
ἥτις ἀειδόντεσσι νεωτάτη ἀμφιπέληται,
"
μὴ πολλάκις τὸν ποιητήν τις οἴηται λέγειν οὐκ ᾄσματα νέα ἀλλὰ τρόπον ᾠδῆς νέον, καὶ τοῦτο ἐπαινῇ.
"To speak briefly, then, the overseers of the city must hold fast to this, so that it does not escape their notice being corrupted, but they must guard it against everything, not to make innovations in gymnastics and music contrary to the established order, but to preserve them as much as possible, fearing when anyone says that people care more for the 'song that is newest to hover from the singers' lips,' lest someone should think the poet means not new songs but a new style of song, and praise this.
δεῖ δʼ οὔτʼ ἐπαινεῖν τὸ τοιοῦτον οὔτε ὑπολαμβάνειν.
But one must neither praise such a thing nor accept it.
εἶδος γὰρ καινὸν μουσικῆς μεταβάλλειν εὐλαβητέον ὡς ἐν ὅλῳ κινδυνεύοντα· οὐδαμοῦ γὰρ κινοῦνται μουσικῆς τρόποι ἄνευ πολιτικῶν νόμων τῶν μεγίστων, ὥς φησί τε Δάμων καὶ ἐγὼ πείθομαι. καὶ ἐμὲ τοίνυν, ἔφη ὁ Ἀδείμαντος, θὲς τῶν πεπεισμένων. τὸ δὴ φυλακτήριον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἐνταῦθά που οἰκοδομητέον τοῖς φύλαξιν, ἐν μουσικῇ. ἡ γοῦν παρανομία, ἔφη, ῥᾳδίως αὕτη λανθάνει παραδυομένη. ναί, ἔφην, ὡς ἐν παιδιᾶς γε μέρει καὶ ὡς κακὸν οὐδὲν ἐργαζομένη. οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐργάζεται, ἔφη, ἄλλο γε ἢ κατὰ σμικρὸν εἰσοικισαμένη ἠρέμα ὑπορρεῖ πρὸς τὰ ἤθη τε καὶ τὰ ἐπιτηδεύματα· ἐκ δὲ τούτων εἰς τὰ πρὸς ἀλλήλους συμβόλαια μείζων ἐκβαίνει, ἐκ δὲ δὴ τῶν συμβολαίων ἔρχεται ἐπὶ τοὺς νόμους καὶ πολιτείας σὺν πολλῇ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀσελγείᾳ, ἕως ἂν τελευτῶσα πάντα ἰδίᾳ καὶ δημοσίᾳ ἀνατρέψῃ. εἶεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· οὕτω τοῦτʼ ἔχει; δοκεῖ μοι, ἔφη.
For one must be on guard against changing to a new kind of music as endangering the whole; for the styles of music are never moved without the greatest political laws, as Damon says and I believe." "And me too, then," Adeimantus said, "count among those who believe it." "The citadel, then, I said, as it seems, must be built by the guardians somewhere here, in music." "At any rate," he said, "this lawlessness easily slips in unnoticed." "Yes," I said, "as if in the guise of play and as if doing no harm." "For indeed it does not do any," he said, "except that, having settled in little by little, it gently flows into characters and habits; and from these it issues larger into contracts with one another, and from contracts, Socrates, it comes upon the laws and constitutions with much insolence, until finally it subverts everything, both in private and in public." "Well," I said, "is this so?" "So it seems to me," he said.