§3.395σχολῇ ἄρα ἐπιτηδεύσει γέ τι ἅμα τῶν ἀξίων λόγου ἐπιτηδευμάτων καὶ πολλὰ μιμήσεται καὶ ἔσται μιμητικός, ἐπεί που οὐδὲ τὰ δοκοῦντα ἐγγὺς ἀλλήλων εἶναι δύο μιμήματα δύνανται οἱ αὐτοὶ ἅμα εὖ μιμεῖσθαι, οἷον κωμῳδίαν καὶ τραγῳδίαν ποιοῦντες.
"Hardly then will a man practice any of the occupations worthy of mention at the same time and also imitate many things and be imitative, since not even two imitations that seem to be close to each other can be well imitated at the same time by the same persons, as for example those who make comedy and tragedy.
ἢ οὐ μιμήματε ἄρτι τούτω ἐκάλεις; ἔγωγε· καὶ ἀληθῆ γε λέγεις, ὅτι οὐ δύνανται οἱ αὐτοί. οὐδὲ μὴν ῥαψῳδοί γε καὶ ὑποκριταὶ ἅμα. ἀληθῆ. ἀλλʼ οὐδέ τοι ὑποκριταὶ κωμῳδοῖς τε καὶ τραγῳδοῖς οἱ αὐτοί· πάντα δὲ ταῦτα μιμήματα. ἢ οὔ; μιμήματα. καὶ ἔτι γε τούτων, ὦ Ἀδείμαντε, φαίνεταί μοι εἰς σμικρότερα κατακεκερματίσθαι ἡ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου φύσις, ὥστε ἀδύνατος εἶναι πολλὰ καλῶς μιμεῖσθαι ἢ αὐτὰ ἐκεῖνα πράττειν ὧν δὴ καὶ τὰ μιμήματά ἐστιν ἀφομοιώματα.
Or did you not just now call these two imitations?" "I did indeed; and you speak truly, that the same persons cannot do both." "Nor indeed can they be rhapsodists and actors at the same time." "True." "But neither indeed are the actors for comedies and tragedies the same; and yet all these are imitations, are they not?" "They are imitations." "And further than these, Adeimantus, human nature seems to me to have been split up into even smaller fractions, so that it is impossible to imitate many things well, or to perform those very actions of which the imitations are likenesses." "Most true," he said.
ἀληθέστατα, ἦ δʼ ὅς. εἰ ἄρα τὸν πρῶτον λόγον διασώσομεν, τοὺς φύλακας ἡμῖν τῶν ἄλλων πασῶν δημιουργιῶν ἀφειμένους δεῖν εἶναι δημιουργοὺς ἐλευθερίας τῆς πόλεως πάνυ ἀκριβεῖς καὶ μηδὲν ἄλλο ἐπιτηδεύειν ὅτι μὴ εἰς τοῦτο φέρει, οὐδὲν δὴ δέοι ἂν αὐτοὺς ἄλλο πράττειν οὐδὲ μιμεῖσθαι· ἐὰν δὲ μιμῶνται, μιμεῖσθαι τὰ τούτοις προσήκοντα εὐθὺς ἐκ παίδων, ἀνδρείους, σώφρονας, ὁσίους, ἐλευθέρους, καὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πάντα, τὰ δὲ ἀνελεύθερα μήτε ποιεῖν μήτε δεινοὺς εἶναι μιμήσασθαι, μηδὲ ἄλλο μηδὲν τῶν αἰσχρῶν, ἵνα μὴ ἐκ τῆς μιμήσεως τοῦ εἶναι ἀπολαύσωσιν.
"If therefore we are to preserve our first argument, that our guardians, released from all other crafts, must be very precise craftsmen of the city's freedom and practice nothing else except what leads to this, then they would need to do nothing else nor to imitate; but if they do imitate, they should imitate what is appropriate for them from childhood—brave, temperate, holy, free men, and all such things, but they must neither do what is illiberal nor be clever at imitating it, nor anything else of shameful things, lest from the imitation they reap the reality.
ἢ οὐκ ᾔσθησαι ὅτι αἱ μιμήσεις, ἐὰν ἐκ νέων πόρρω διατελέσωσιν, εἰς ἔθη τε καὶ φύσιν καθίστανται καὶ κατὰ σῶμα καὶ φωνὰς καὶ κατὰ τὴν διάνοιαν; καὶ μάλα, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
Or have you not perceived that imitations, if they continue from youth far onward, settle into habits and nature, both in body and voice and in understanding?" "Very much so," he said.
οὐ δὴ ἐπιτρέψομεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὧν φαμὲν κήδεσθαι καὶ δεῖν αὐτοὺς ἄνδρας ἀγαθοὺς γενέσθαι, γυναῖκα μιμεῖσθαι ἄνδρας ὄντας, ἢ νέαν ἢ πρεσβυτέραν, ἢ ἀνδρὶ λοιδορουμένην ἢ πρὸς θεοὺς ἐρίζουσάν τε καὶ μεγαλαυχουμένην, οἰομένην εὐδαίμονα εἶναι, ἢ ἐν συμφοραῖς τε καὶ πένθεσιν καὶ θρήνοις ἐχομένην· κάμνουσαν δὲ ἢ ἐρῶσαν ἢ ὠδίνουσαν, πολλοῦ καὶ δεήσομεν. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
"We shall not then permit," I said, "those for whom we say we care and who must become good men, to imitate a woman, being men themselves, whether young or older, either abusing her husband or striving and boasting against the gods, thinking herself to be happy, or held in misfortunes and griefs and lamentations; and as for one who is sick or in love or in labor, we shall be far from allowing it." "By all means indeed," he said.
οὐδέ γε δούλας τε καὶ δούλους πράττοντας ὅσα δούλων. οὐδὲ τοῦτο. §3.396οὐδέ γε ἄνδρας κακούς, ὡς ἔοικεν, δειλούς τε καὶ τὰ ἐναντία πράττοντας ὧν νυνδὴ εἴπομεν, κακηγοροῦντάς τε καὶ κωμῳδοῦντας ἀλλήλους καὶ αἰσχρολογοῦντας, μεθύοντας ἢ καὶ νήφοντας, ἢ καὶ ἄλλα ὅσα οἱ τοιοῦτοι καὶ ἐν λόγοις καὶ ἐν ἔργοις ἁμαρτάνουσιν εἰς αὑτούς τε καὶ εἰς ἄλλους, οἶμαι δὲ οὐδὲ μαινομένοις ἐθιστέον ἀφομοιοῦν αὑτοὺς ἐν λόγοις οὐδὲ ἐν ἔργοις·
"Nor indeed female slaves and male slaves performing what belongs to slaves." "Nor that either." "Nor indeed bad men, as it seems, who are cowardly and doing the opposite of what we have just now said, slandering and mocking each other and speaking obscenities, whether drunk or sober, or doing other such things as such people err in, both in words and in deeds, against themselves and against others.
γνωστέον μὲν γὰρ καὶ μαινομένους καὶ πονηροὺς ἄνδρας τε καὶ γυναῖκας, ποιητέον δὲ οὐδὲν τούτων οὐδὲ μιμητέον. ἀληθέστατα, ἔφη.
And I think they must not be accustomed to liken themselves to madmen, either in words or in deeds; for they must know both mad and wicked men and women, but they must do none of these things nor imitate them." "Most true," he said.
τί δέ; ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· χαλκεύοντας ἤ τι ἄλλο δημιουργοῦντας, ἢ ἐλαύνοντας τριήρεις ἢ κελεύοντας τούτοις, ἤ τι ἄλλο τῶν περὶ ταῦτα μιμητέον; καὶ πῶς; ἔφη, οἷς γε οὐδὲ προσέχειν τὸν νοῦν τούτων οὐδενὶ ἐξέσται; τί δέ;
"What then?" I said; "forging metal or practicing any other craft, or rowing triremes or commanding them, or anything else of such things, must they imitate these?" "And how could they," he said, "since they will not even be permitted to pay attention to any of these things?" "What then?
ἵππους χρεμετίζοντας καὶ ταύρους μυκωμένους καὶ ποταμοὺς ψοφοῦντας καὶ θάλατταν κτυποῦσαν καὶ βροντὰς καὶ πάντα αὖ τὰ τοιαῦτα ἦ μιμήσονται; ἀλλʼ ἀπείρηται αὐτοῖς, ἔφη, μήτε μαίνεσθαι μήτε μαινομένοις ἀφομοιοῦσθαι. εἰ ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μανθάνω ἃ σὺ λέγεις, ἔστιν τι εἶδος λέξεώς τε καὶ διηγήσεως ἐν ᾧ ἂν διηγοῖτο ὁ τῷ ὄντι καλὸς κἀγαθός, ὁπότε τι δέοι αὐτὸν λέγειν, καὶ ἕτερον αὖ ἀνόμοιον τούτῳ εἶδος, οὗ ἂν ἔχοιτο ἀεὶ καὶ ἐν ᾧ διηγοῖτο ὁ ἐναντίως ἐκείνῳ φύς τε καὶ τραφείς. ποῖα δή, ἔφη, ταῦτα;
Will they imitate horses neighing and bulls bellowing and rivers roaring and the sea crashing and thunders and all such things in turn?" "No, for they have been forbidden," he said, "either to go mad or to make themselves like madmen." "If then," I said, "I understand what you mean, there is a certain kind of speech and narrative in which the truly gentlemanly and good man would narrate whenever he had to say something, and in turn another kind unlike this, which the man who is by nature and training opposite to him would always hold to and in which he would narrate." "What kinds are these?" he said.
ὁ μέν μοι δοκεῖ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μέτριος ἀνήρ, ἐπειδὰν ἀφίκηται ἐν τῇ διηγήσει ἐπὶ λέξιν τινὰ ἢ πρᾶξιν ἀνδρὸς ἀγαθοῦ, ἐθελήσειν ὡς αὐτὸς ὢν ἐκεῖνος ἀπαγγέλλειν καὶ οὐκ αἰσχυνεῖσθαι ἐπὶ τῇ τοιαύτῃ μιμήσει, μάλιστα μὲν μιμούμενος τὸν ἀγαθὸν ἀσφαλῶς τε καὶ ἐμφρόνως πράττοντα, ἐλάττω δὲ καὶ ἧττον ἢ ὑπὸ νόσων ἢ ὑπὸ ἐρώτων ἐσφαλμένον ἢ καὶ ὑπὸ μέθης ἤ τινος ἄλλης συμφορᾶς·
"It seems to me," I said, "that the moderate man, when he comes in his narrative to some speech or action of a good man, will be willing to report it as if he were that person himself, and will not be ashamed of such imitation, imitating most of all the good man acting securely and sensibly, but less and to a lesser degree when he is tripped up either by illnesses or by loves, or even by drunkenness or some other misfortune.
ὅταν δὲ γίγνηται κατά τινα ἑαυτοῦ ἀνάξιον, οὐκ ἐθελήσειν σπουδῇ ἀπεικάζειν ἑαυτὸν τῷ χείρονι, εἰ μὴ ἄρα κατὰ βραχύ, ὅταν τι χρηστὸν ποιῇ, ἀλλʼ αἰσχυνεῖσθαι, ἅμα μὲν ἀγύμναστος ὢν τοῦ μιμεῖσθαι τοὺς τοιούτους, ἅμα δὲ καὶ δυσχεραίνων αὑτὸν ἐκμάττειν τε καὶ ἐνιστάναι εἰς τοὺς τῶν κακιόνων τύπους, ἀτιμάζων τῇ διανοίᾳ, ὅτι μὴ παιδιᾶς χάριν. εἰκός, ἔφη.
But when he comes to someone unworthy of himself, he will not be willing to seriously assimilate himself to the inferior person, except perhaps briefly when he does something good, but he will be ashamed, both being unpracticed in imitating such people, and also disliking to mold and insert himself into the types of worse characters, despising them in his mind, except for the sake of play." "It is likely," he said.
οὐκοῦν διηγήσει χρήσεται οἵᾳ ἡμεῖς ὀλίγον πρότερον διήλθομεν περὶ τὰ τοῦ Ὁμήρου ἔπη, καὶ ἔσται αὐτοῦ ἡ λέξις μετέχουσα μὲν ἀμφοτέρων, μιμήσεώς τε καὶ τῆς ἄλλης διηγήσεως, σμικρὸν δέ τι μέρος ἐν πολλῷ λόγῳ τῆς μιμήσεως;
"Will he not, then, use a narrative such as we described a little while ago concerning the verses of Homer, and will his speech participate in both, namely in imitation and in the other narrative, but with only a small portion of imitation in a long discourse?
ἢ οὐδὲν λέγω; καὶ μάλα, ἔφη, οἷόν γε ἀνάγκη τὸν τύπον εἶναι τοῦ τοιούτου ῥήτορος.
Or am I speaking nonsense?" "Indeed, yes," he said, "such as the type of such a speaker must of necessity be."