§2.369ἴσως τοίνυν πλείων ἂν δικαιοσύνη ἐν τῷ μείζονι ἐνείη καὶ ῥᾴων καταμαθεῖν.
"Perhaps, then, there would be more justice in the larger thing, and it would be easier to discern.
εἰ οὖν βούλεσθε, πρῶτον ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι ζητήσωμεν ποῖόν τί ἐστιν· ἔπειτα οὕτως ἐπισκεψώμεθα καὶ ἐν ἑνὶ ἑκάστῳ, τὴν τοῦ μείζονος ὁμοιότητα ἐν τῇ τοῦ ἐλάττονος ἰδέᾳ ἐπισκοποῦντες. ἀλλά μοι δοκεῖς, ἔφη, καλῶς λέγειν. ἆρʼ οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, εἰ γιγνομένην πόλιν θεασαίμεθα λόγῳ, καὶ τὴν δικαιοσύνην αὐτῆς ἴδοιμεν ἂν γιγνομένην καὶ τὴν ἀδικίαν;
So, if you are willing, let us first inquire what sort of thing it is in cities; and then let us examine it likewise in each individual, looking for the likeness of the larger in the form of the smaller." "You seem to me," he said, "to speak well." "If, then," I said, "we should behold in speech a city coming into being, would we also see its justice and injustice coming into being?" "Perhaps so," he said.
τάχʼ ἄν, ἦ δʼ ὅς. οὐκοῦν γενομένου αὐτοῦ ἐλπὶς εὐπετέστερον ἰδεῖν ὃ ζητοῦμεν; πολύ γε. δοκεῖ οὖν χρῆναι ἐπιχειρῆσαι περαίνειν;
"And once this has happened, is there hope of seeing what we seek more easily?" "Very much so." "Does it seem, then, that we ought to attempt to carry this through?
οἶμαι μὲν γὰρ οὐκ ὀλίγον ἔργον αὐτὸ εἶναι· σκοπεῖτε οὖν. ἔσκεπται, ἔφη ὁ Ἀδείμαντος· ἀλλὰ μὴ ἄλλως ποίει. γίγνεται τοίνυν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πόλις, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι, ἐπειδὴ τυγχάνει ἡμῶν ἕκαστος οὐκ αὐτάρκης, ἀλλὰ πολλῶν ὢν ἐνδεής·
For I think it is no small task; so consider it." "It has been considered," Adeimantus said; "do not do otherwise." "A city, then," I said, "comes into being, as I think, because each of us happens not to be self-sufficient, but in need of many things.
ἢ τίνʼ οἴει ἀρχὴν ἄλλην πόλιν οἰκίζειν; οὐδεμίαν, ἦ δʼ ὅς.
Or what other beginning do you think founds a city?" "None other," he said.
οὕτω δὴ ἄρα παραλαμβάνων ἄλλος ἄλλον, ἐπʼ ἄλλου, τὸν δʼ ἐπʼ ἄλλου χρείᾳ, πολλῶν δεόμενοι, πολλοὺς εἰς μίαν οἴκησιν ἀγείραντες κοινωνούς τε καὶ βοηθούς, ταύτῃ τῇ συνοικίᾳ ἐθέμεθα πόλιν ὄνομα· ἦ γάρ; πάνυ μὲν οὖν. μεταδίδωσι δὴ ἄλλος ἄλλῳ, εἴ τι μεταδίδωσιν, ἢ μεταλαμβάνει, οἰόμενος αὑτῷ ἄμεινον εἶναι; πάνυ γε. ἴθι δή, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τῷ λόγῳ ἐξ ἀρχῆς ποιῶμεν πόλιν· ποιήσει δὲ αὐτήν, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἡ ἡμετέρα χρεία. πῶς δʼ οὔ; ἀλλὰ μὴν πρώτη γε καὶ μεγίστη τῶν χρειῶν ἡ τῆς τροφῆς παρασκευὴ τοῦ εἶναί τε καὶ ζῆν ἕνεκα. παντάπασί γε. δευτέρα δὴ οἰκήσεως, τρίτη δὲ ἐσθῆτος καὶ τῶν τοιούτων. ἔστι ταῦτα. φέρε δή, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πῶς ἡ πόλις ἀρκέσει ἐπὶ τοσαύτην παρασκευήν;
"Thus, then, one taking to himself another for one need, and another for another, needing many things, and gathering many partners and helpers into one dwelling place, to this joint dwelling we gave the name 'city,' did we not?" "Certainly." "And does one share with another, if he shares anything, or receive a share, thinking it is better for himself?" "Quite so." "Come then," I said, "let us in speech make a city from the beginning; and our need, as it seems, will make it." "How not?" "But indeed, the first and greatest of needs is the provision of food for the sake of existence and life." "By all means." "The second is housing, and the third is clothing and such things." "That is so." "Come now," I said, "how will the city suffice for so great a provision?
ἄλλο τι γεωργὸς μὲν εἷς, ὁ δὲ οἰκοδόμος, ἄλλος δέ τις ὑφάντης;
Is it not so that one will be a farmer, another a builder, and some other a weaver?
ἢ καὶ σκυτοτόμον αὐτόσε προσθήσομεν ἤ τινʼ ἄλλον τῶν περὶ τὸ σῶμα θεραπευτήν; πάνυ γε. εἴη δʼ ἂν ἥ γε ἀναγκαιοτάτη πόλις ἐκ τεττάρων ἢ πέντε ἀνδρῶν. φαίνεται. §2.370τί δὴ οὖν;
Or shall we add to them a shoemaker or some other tender of bodily needs?" "Certainly." "The most necessary city, then, would consist of four or five men." "It appears so." "What then?
ἕνα ἕκαστον τούτων δεῖ τὸ αὑτοῦ ἔργον ἅπασι κοινὸν κατατιθέναι, οἷον τὸν γεωργὸν ἕνα ὄντα παρασκευάζειν σιτία τέτταρσιν καὶ τετραπλάσιον χρόνον τε καὶ πόνον ἀναλίσκειν ἐπὶ σίτου παρασκευῇ καὶ ἄλλοις κοινωνεῖν, ἢ ἀμελήσαντα ἑαυτῷ μόνον τέταρτον μέρος ποιεῖν τούτου τοῦ σίτου ἐν τετάρτῳ μέρει τοῦ χρόνου, τὰ δὲ τρία, τὸ μὲν ἐπὶ τῇ τῆς οἰκίας παρασκευῇ διατρίβειν, τὸ δὲ ἱματίου, τὸ δὲ ὑποδημάτων, καὶ μὴ ἄλλοις κοινωνοῦντα πράγματα ἔχειν, ἀλλʼ αὐτὸν διʼ αὑτὸν τὰ αὑτοῦ πράττειν; καὶ ὁ Ἀδείμαντος ἔφη· ἀλλʼ ἴσως, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὕτω ῥᾷον ἢ ʼκείνως. οὐδέν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μὰ Δία ἄτοπον.
Must each one of these place his own work at the common disposal of all—for example, the farmer, being one, prepare food for four, and spend four times as much time and labor on the preparation of food and share it with others, or neglect them and make for himself alone a fourth part of this food in a fourth part of the time, and of the remaining three parts, spend one on the preparation of a house, one on a cloak, and one on shoes, and not have trouble sharing with others, but manage his own affairs by himself?" And Adeimantus said, "But perhaps, Socrates, it is easier in the former way than the latter." "By Zeus, that is nothing strange," I said.
ἐννοῶ γὰρ καὶ αὐτὸς εἰπόντος σοῦ, ὅτι πρῶτον μὲν ἡμῶν φύεται ἕκαστος οὐ πάνυ ὅμοιος ἑκάστῳ, ἀλλὰ διαφέρων τὴν φύσιν, ἄλλος ἐπʼ ἄλλου ἔργου πράξει.
"For indeed, I myself reflect, when you say so, that first of all, each of us is born not entirely like each other, but differing in nature, one for the performance of one work, another for another.
ἢ οὐ δοκεῖ σοι; ἔμοιγε. τί δέ;
Or does it not seem so to you?" "To me, at least." "And what of this?
πότερον κάλλιον πράττοι ἄν τις εἷς ὢν πολλὰς τέχνας ἐργαζόμενος, ἢ ὅταν μίαν εἷς; ὅταν, ἦ δʼ ὅς, εἷς μίαν. ἀλλὰ μὴν οἶμαι καὶ τόδε δῆλον, ὡς, ἐάν τίς τινος παρῇ ἔργου καιρόν, διόλλυται. δῆλον γάρ. οὐ γὰρ οἶμαι ἐθέλει τὸ πραττόμενον τὴν τοῦ πράττοντος σχολὴν περιμένειν, ἀλλʼ ἀνάγκη τὸν πράττοντα τῷ πραττομένῳ ἐπακολουθεῖν μὴ ἐν παρέργου μέρει. ἀνάγκη. ἐκ δὴ τούτων πλείω τε ἕκαστα γίγνεται καὶ κάλλιον καὶ ῥᾷον, ὅταν εἷς ἓν κατὰ φύσιν καὶ ἐν καιρῷ, σχολὴν τῶν ἄλλων ἄγων, πράττῃ. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν. πλειόνων δή, ὦ Ἀδείμαντε, δεῖ πολιτῶν ἢ τεττάρων ἐπὶ τὰς παρασκευὰς ὧν ἐλέγομεν.
Would someone do better working at many arts, being one man, or when one man works at one?" "When," he said, "one works at one." "And indeed, I think this also is clear, that if someone lets the proper time for any work pass by, it is ruined." "Yes, that is clear." "For the thing to be done, I think, is not willing to wait for the leisure of the doer, but it is necessary for the doer to follow the thing to be done, not as a secondary matter." "It is necessary." "From these things, then, more of each is produced, and better, and more easily, when one does one thing according to nature and at the proper time, having leisure from other things." "By all means, indeed." "We need more citizens then, Adeimantus, than four for the provisions of which we were speaking.
ὁ γὰρ γεωργός, ὡς ἔοικεν, οὐκ αὐτὸς ποιήσεται ἑαυτῷ τὸ ἄροτρον, εἰ μέλλει καλὸν εἶναι, οὐδὲ σμινύην, οὐδὲ τἆλλα ὄργανα ὅσα περὶ γεωργίαν.
For the farmer, as it seems, will not make his own plow himself, if it is to be a good one, nor a spade, nor any other tools for agriculture.
οὐδʼ αὖ ὁ οἰκοδόμος· πολλῶν δὲ καὶ τούτῳ δεῖ.
Nor, on the other hand, will the builder; and he too needs many.
ὡσαύτως δʼ ὁ ὑφάντης τε καὶ ὁ σκυτοτόμος· ἢ οὔ; ἀληθῆ. τέκτονες δὴ καὶ χαλκῆς καὶ τοιοῦτοί τινες πολλοὶ δημιουργοί, κοινωνοὶ ἡμῖν τοῦ πολιχνίου γιγνόμενοι, συχνὸν αὐτὸ ποιοῦσιν. πάνυ μὲν οὖν. ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἄν πω πάνυ γε μέγα τι εἴη, εἰ αὐτοῖς βουκόλους τε καὶ ποιμένας τούς τε ἄλλους νομέας προσθεῖμεν, ἵνα οἵ τε γεωργοὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἀροῦν ἔχοιεν βοῦς, οἵ τε οἰκοδόμοι πρὸς τὰς ἀγωγὰς μετὰ τῶν γεωργῶν χρῆσθαι ὑποζυγίοις, ὑφάνται δὲ καὶ σκυτοτόμοι δέρμασίν τε καὶ ἐρίοις. οὐδέ γε, ἦ δʼ ὅς, σμικρὰ πόλις ἂν εἴη ἔχουσα πάντα ταῦτα. ἀλλὰ μήν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, κατοικίσαι γε αὐτὴν τὴν πόλιν εἰς τοιοῦτον τόπον οὗ ἐπεισαγωγίμων μὴ δεήσεται, σχεδόν τι ἀδύνατον. ἀδύνατον γάρ. προσδεήσει ἄρα ἔτι καὶ ἄλλων, οἳ ἐξ ἄλλης πόλεως αὐτῇ κομιοῦσιν ὧν δεῖται. δεήσει.
Likewise the weaver and the shoemaker; or not?" "True." "Carpenters, then, and smiths, and many other such craftsmen, becoming partners in our little city, make it populous." "By all means." "But it would not yet be very large, if we should add herdsmen and shepherds and other keepers of beasts to them, so that the farmers might have oxen for plowing, and the builders beasts of burden to use with the farmers for haulage, and the weavers and shoemakers hides and wool." "Nor indeed," he said, "would it be a small city having all these things." "But indeed," I said, "to settle the city itself in a place where it will not need imports is almost impossible." "Impossible indeed." "There will be need, then, of still others who will bring to it from another city what it needs." "There will be."