§1.342ὀρθῶς, ἔφη.
"Correct," he said.
τί δὲ δή;
"But what of this?
αὐτὴ ἡ ἰατρική ἐστιν πονηρά, ἢ ἄλλη τις τέχνη ἔσθʼ ὅτι προσδεῖταί τινος ἀρετῆς—ὥσπερ ὀφθαλμοὶ ὄψεως καὶ ὦτα ἀκοῆς καὶ διὰ ταῦτα ἐπʼ αὐτοῖς δεῖ τινος τέχνης τῆς τὸ συμφέρον εἰς αὐτὰ ταῦτα σκεψομένης τε καὶ ἐκποριούσης— ἆρα καὶ ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ τέχνῃ ἔνι τις πονηρία, καὶ δεῖ ἑκάστῃ τέχνῃ ἄλλης τέχνης ἥτις αὐτῇ τὸ συμφέρον σκέψεται, καὶ τῇ σκοπουμένῃ ἑτέρας αὖ τοιαύτης, καὶ τοῦτʼ ἔστιν ἀπέραντον;
Is medicine itself defective, or does any other art need some additional virtue—just as eyes need sight and ears hearing, and because of this, there is need of some art over them that will seek out and provide the advantage for these very things? Is there also in the art itself some defect, and does each art need another art which will seek out its advantage, and the one that is seeking it, another of the same kind again, and is this without end?
ἢ αὐτὴ αὑτῇ τὸ συμφέρον σκέψεται;
Or will it seek out the advantage for itself?
ἢ οὔτε αὑτῆς οὔτε ἄλλης προσδεῖται ἐπὶ τὴν αὑτῆς πονηρίαν τὸ συμφέρον σκοπεῖν·
Or does it need neither itself nor another to seek out the advantage for its own defect?
οὔτε γὰρ πονηρία οὔτε ἁμαρτία οὐδεμία οὐδεμιᾷ τέχνῃ πάρεστιν, οὐδὲ προσήκει τέχνῃ ἄλλῳ τὸ συμφέρον ζητεῖν ἢ ἐκείνῳ οὗ τέχνη ἐστίν, αὐτὴ δὲ ἀβλαβὴς καὶ ἀκέραιός ἐστιν ὀρθὴ οὖσα, ἕωσπερ ἂν ᾖ ἑκάστη ἀκριβὴς ὅλη ἥπερ ἐστίν;
For neither defect nor any mistake is present in any art, nor does it belong to an art to seek the advantage of anything other than that of which it is the art; and the art itself is without harm and pure, as long as it is correct, so long as each remains precisely whole as it is.
καὶ σκόπει ἐκείνῳ τῷ ἀκριβεῖ λόγῳ· οὕτως ἢ ἄλλως ἔχει; οὕτως, ἔφη, φαίνεται. οὐκ ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἰατρικὴ ἰατρικῇ τὸ συμφέρον σκοπεῖ ἀλλὰ σώματι. ναί, ἔφη.
And consider it according to that precise sense: is it so or otherwise?" "So," he said, "it appears." ¦342c "Therefore," I said, "medicine does not seek the advantage for medicine, but for the body." "Yes," he said.
οὐδὲ ἱππικὴ ἱππικῇ ἀλλʼ ἵπποις· οὐδὲ ἄλλη τέχνη οὐδεμία ἑαυτῇ—οὐδὲ γὰρ προσδεῖται—ἀλλʼ ἐκείνῳ οὗ τέχνη ἐστίν. φαίνεται, ἔφη, οὕτως.
"Nor horsemanship for horsemanship, but for horses; nor does any other art seek it for itself—for it does not need it—but for that of which it is the art." "So it appears," he said.
ἀλλὰ μήν, ὦ Θρασύμαχε, ἄρχουσί γε αἱ τέχναι καὶ κρατοῦσιν ἐκείνου οὗπέρ εἰσιν τέχναι. συνεχώρησεν ἐνταῦθα καὶ μάλα μόγις.
"But surely, Thrasymachus, the arts rule over and have power over that of which they are the arts." He agreed to this, but with very great difficulty.
οὐκ ἄρα ἐπιστήμη γε οὐδεμία τὸ τοῦ κρείττονος συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδʼ ἐπιτάττει, ἀλλὰ τὸ τοῦ ἥττονός τε καὶ ἀρχομένου ὑπὸ ἑαυτῆς. συνωμολόγησε μὲν καὶ ταῦτα τελευτῶν, ἐπεχείρει δὲ περὶ αὐτὰ μάχεσθαι· ἐπειδὴ δὲ ὡμολόγησεν, ἄλλο τι οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, οὐδὲ ἰατρὸς οὐδείς, καθʼ ὅσον ἰατρός, τὸ τῷ ἰατρῷ συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδʼ ἐπιτάττει, ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ κάμνοντι;
"Therefore, no knowledge seeks out or orders the advantage of the stronger, but that of the weaker and what is ruled by it." He agreed to this too in the end, though he tried to fight about it; but when he agreed, "Is it then any different," I said, "that no physician, so far as he is a physician, seeks or orders the advantage of the physician, but that of the sick person?
ὡμολόγηται γὰρ ὁ ἀκριβὴς ἰατρὸς σωμάτων εἶναι ἄρχων ἀλλʼ οὐ χρηματιστής.
For it was agreed that the precise physician is a ruler of bodies and not a money-maker.
ἢ οὐχ ὡμολόγηται; συνέφη.
Or was it not agreed?" He agreed.
οὐκοῦν καὶ ὁ κυβερνήτης ὁ ἀκριβὴς ναυτῶν εἶναι ἄρχων ἀλλʼ οὐ ναύτης; ὡμολόγηται. οὐκ ἄρα ὅ γε τοιοῦτος κυβερνήτης τε καὶ ἄρχων τὸ τῷ κυβερνήτῃ συμφέρον σκέψεταί τε καὶ προστάξει, ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ ναύτῃ τε καὶ ἀρχομένῳ. συνέφησε μόγις.
"And also that the precise pilot is a ruler of sailors and not a sailor?" ¦342e "It was agreed." "Therefore, such a pilot and ruler will not seek and order the advantage of the pilot, but that of the sailor and the ruled." He agreed with difficulty.
οὐκοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Θρασύμαχε, οὐδὲ ἄλλος οὐδεὶς ἐν οὐδεμιᾷ ἀρχῇ, καθʼ ὅσον ἄρχων ἐστίν, τὸ αὑτῷ συμφέρον σκοπεῖ οὐδʼ ἐπιτάττει, ἀλλὰ τὸ τῷ ἀρχομένῳ καὶ ᾧ ἂν αὐτὸς δημιουργῇ, καὶ πρὸς ἐκεῖνο βλέπων καὶ τὸ ἐκείνῳ συμφέρον καὶ πρέπον, καὶ λέγει ἃ λέγει καὶ ποιεῖ ἃ ποιεῖ ἅπαντα.
"Therefore, Thrasymachus," I said, "no one else in any position of rule, so far as he is a ruler, seeks or orders his own advantage, but that of the ruled and that for which he himself works; and looking to that and to what is advantageous and fitting for that, he says all that he says and does all that he does."