§451ΓΟΡ. ὀρθῶς γὰρ οἴει, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ δικαίως ὑπολαμβάνεις.
Gorgias: You are quite right, Socrates, and you understand it justly.
ΣΩ. ἴθι νυν καὶ σὺ τὴν ἀπόκρισιν ἣν ἠρόμην διαπέρανον.
Socrates: Come then, you too finish the answer to the question I asked.
ἐπεὶ γὰρ ῥητορικὴ τυγχάνει μὲν οὖσα τούτων τις τῶν τεχνῶν τῶν τὸ πολὺ λόγῳ χρωμένων, τυγχάνουσιν δὲ καὶ ἄλλαι τοιαῦται οὖσαι, πειρῶ εἰπεῖν ἡ περὶ τί ἐν λόγοις τὸ κῦρος ἔχουσα ῥητορική ἐστιν.
For since rhetoric happens to be one of these arts that mostly make use of speech, and there happen to be other such arts, try to say which is the rhetoric that has its validity in speeches, and about what.
ὥσπερ ἂν εἴ τίς με ἔροιτο ὧν νυνδὴ ἔλεγον περὶ ἡστινοσοῦν τῶν τεχνῶν· ὦ Σώκρατες, τίς ἐστιν ἡ ἀριθμητικὴ τέχνη; εἴποιμʼ ἂν αὐτῷ, ὥσπερ σὺ ἄρτι, ὅτι τῶν διὰ λόγου τις τὸ κῦρος ἐχουσῶν.
Just as if someone should ask me about any of the arts I was just mentioning: "Socrates, what is the art of arithmetic?" I would tell him, just as you did just now, that it is one of those that have their validity through speech.
καὶ εἴ με ἐπανέροιτο· τῶν περὶ τί; εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὅτι τῶν περὶ τὸ ἄρτιόν τε καὶ περιττὸν, ὅσα ἂν ἑκάτερα τυγχάνῃ ὄντα.
And if he should ask me again: "Of those about what?" I would tell him that it is of those about the even and the odd, however many each of these may happen to be.
εἰ δʼ αὖ ἔροιτο· τὴν δὲ λογιστικὴν τίνα καλεῖς τέχνην; εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὅτι καὶ αὕτη ἐστὶν τῶν λόγῳ τὸ πᾶν κυρουμένων·
And if he should ask in turn: "And what art do you call calculation?" I would say that this too is one of those that have their whole validity through speech.
καὶ εἰ ἐπανέροιτο· ἡ περὶ τί; εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὥσπερ οἱ ἐν τῷ δήμῳ συγγραφόμενοι, ὅτι τὰ μὲν ἄλλα καθάπερ ἡ ἀριθμητικὴ ἡ λογιστικὴ ἔχει—περὶ τὸ αὐτὸ γάρ ἐστιν, τό τε ἄρτιον καὶ τὸ περιττόν—διαφέρει δὲ τοσοῦτον, ὅτι καὶ πρὸς αὑτὰ καὶ πρὸς ἄλληλα πῶς ἔχει πλήθους ἐπισκοπεῖ τὸ περιττὸν καὶ τὸ ἄρτιον ἡ λογιστική.
And if he should ask again: "Which is about what?" I would say, like those who draw up resolutions in the assembly, that in other respects calculation is like arithmetic—for it is about the same thing, the even and the odd—but it differs in this much, that calculation examines how the even and the odd are related in terms of quantity, both to themselves and to one another.
καὶ εἴ τις τὴν ἀστρονομίαν ἀνέροιτο, ἐμοῦ λέγοντος ὅτι καὶ αὕτη λόγῳ κυροῦται τὰ πάντα,
οἱ δὲ λόγοι οἱ τῆς ἀστρονομίας,
εἰ φαίη,
περὶ τί εἰσιν, ὦ Σώκρατες; εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὅτι περὶ τὴν τῶν ἄστρων φορὰν καὶ ἡλίου καὶ σελήνης, πῶς πρὸς ἄλληλα τάχους ἔχει.
And if someone should ask about astronomy, when I say that this too has its whole validity through speech: "And the speeches of astronomy," if he should say, "what are they about, Socrates?" I would say that they are about the motion of the stars, the sun, and the moon, how they are related to one another in terms of speed.
ΓΟΡ. ὀρθῶς γε λέγων σύ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
Gorgias: You speak quite correctly, Socrates.
ΣΩ. ἴθι δὴ καὶ σύ, ὦ Γοργία.
Socrates: Come then, you too, Gorgias.
τυγχάνει μὲν γὰρ δὴ ἡ ῥητορικὴ οὖσα τῶν λόγῳ τὰ πάντα διαπραττομένων τε καὶ κυρουμένων· ἦ γάρ;
For rhetoric happens to be one of those arts that accomplish and validate everything through speech; does it not?
ΓΟΡ. ἔστι ταῦτα.
Gorgias: That is so.
ΣΩ. λέγε δὴ τῶν περὶ τί;
Socrates: Say then, of those about what?
τί ἐστι τοῦτο τῶν ὄντων, περὶ οὗ οὗτοι οἱ λόγοι εἰσὶν οἷς ἡ ῥητορικὴ χρῆται;
What is this among existing things, about which these speeches are which rhetoric uses?
ΓΟΡ. τὰ μέγιστα τῶν ἀνθρωπείων πραγμάτων, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ ἄριστα.
Gorgias: The greatest of human affairs, Socrates, and the best.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ, ὦ Γοργία, ἀμφισβητήσιμον καὶ τοῦτο λέγεις καὶ οὐδέν πω σαφές.
Socrates: But, Gorgias, what you say is disputable and not yet at all clear.
οἴομαι γάρ σε ἀκηκοέναι ἐν τοῖς συμποσίοις ᾀδόντων ἀνθρώπων τοῦτο τὸ σκολιόν, ἐν ᾧ καταριθμοῦνται ᾁδοντες ὅτι
"ὑγιαίνειν μὲν ἄριστόν"
ἐστιν, τὸ δὲ
"δεύτερον καλὸν γενέσθαι, τρίτον δέ"
, ὥς φησιν ὁ ποιητὴς τοῦ σκολιοῦ,
"τὸ πλουτεῖν ἀδόλως"
. ΓΟΡ. ἀκήκοα γάρ· ἀλλὰ πρὸς τί τοῦτο λέγεις;
For I think you have heard people at banquets singing this scolion, in which they enumerate in song that "to be healthy is best," and "second, to be beautiful; and third," as the poet of the scolion says, "to be rich without deceit." Gorgias: Yes, I have heard it; but why do you say this?