§450ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν, ἣν νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν, ἡ ἰατρικὴ περὶ τῶν καμνόντων ποιεῖ δυνατοὺς εἶναι φρονεῖν καὶ λέγειν;
Socrates: Does medicine then, which we were just mentioning, make men capable of thinking and speaking about the sick?
ΓΟΡ. ἀνάγκη.
Gorgias: Necessarily.
ΣΩ. καὶ ἡ ἰατρικὴ ἄρα, ὡς ἔοικεν, περὶ λόγους ἐστίν.
Socrates: Then medicine too, it seems, is about speeches.
ΓΟΡ. ναί.
Gorgias: Yes.
ΣΩ. τούς γε περὶ τὰ νοσήματα;
Socrates: Those, at least, about diseases?
ΓΟΡ. μάλιστα.
Gorgias: Certainly.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν καὶ ἡ γυμναστικὴ περὶ λόγους ἐστὶν τοὺς περὶ εὐεξίαν τε τῶν σωμάτων καὶ καχεξίαν;
Socrates: And gymnastic too is about speeches, those concerning the good and bad condition of bodies?
ΓΟΡ. πάνυ γε.
Gorgias: Quite so.
ΣΩ. καὶ μὴν καὶ αἱ ἄλλαι τέχναι, ὦ Γοργία, οὕτως ἔχουσιν· ἑκάστη αὐτῶν περὶ λόγους ἐστὶν τούτους, οἳ τυγχάνουσιν ὄντες περὶ τὸ πρᾶγμα οὗ ἑκάστη ἐστὶν ἡ τέχνη.
Socrates: And indeed, the other arts too, Gorgias, are in this state; each of them is about those speeches which happen to be about the subject matter of which each is the art.
ΓΟΡ. φαίνεται.
Gorgias: So it appears.
ΣΩ. τί οὖν δή ποτε τὰς ἄλλας τέχνας οὐ ῥητορικὰς καλεῖς, οὔσας περὶ λόγους, εἴπερ ταύτην ῥητορικὴν καλεῖς, ἣ ἂν ᾖ περὶ λόγους;
Socrates: Why on earth then do you not call the other arts rhetoric, when they are about speeches, if indeed you call this one rhetoric which is about speeches?
ΓΟΡ. ὅτι, ὦ Σώκρατες, τῶν μὲν ἄλλων τεχνῶν περὶ χειρουργίας τε καὶ τοιαύτας πράξεις ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν πᾶσά ἐστιν ἡ ἐπιστήμη, τῆς δὲ ῥητορικῆς οὐδέν ἐστιν τοιοῦτον χειρούργημα, ἀλλὰ πᾶσα ἡ πρᾶξις καὶ ἡ κύρωσις διὰ λόγων ἐστίν.
Gorgias: Because, Socrates, of the other arts, almost the whole of their knowledge is about manual work and such activities, whereas of rhetoric there is no such manual work, but its whole activity and validity are through speeches.
διὰ ταῦτʼ ἐγὼ τὴν ῥητορικὴν τέχνην ἀξιῶ εἶναι περὶ λόγους, ὀρθῶς λέγων, ὡς ἐγώ φημι.
For these reasons, I claim that the art of rhetoric is about speeches, speaking correctly, as I maintain.
ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν μανθάνω οἵαν αὐτὴν βούλει καλεῖν;
Socrates: Do I then understand what sort of art you wish to call it?
τάχα δὲ εἴσομαι σαφέστερον.
But soon I shall know more clearly.
ἀλλʼ ἀπόκριναι· εἰσὶν ἡμῖν τέχναι. ἦ γάρ;
Answer me: we have arts, do we not?
ΓΟΡ. ναί.
Gorgias: Yes.
ΣΩ. πασῶν δὴ οἶμαι τῶν τεχνῶν τῶν μὲν ἐργασία τὸ πολύ ἐστιν καὶ λόγου βραχέος δέονται, ἔνιαι δὲ οὐδενὸς ἀλλὰ τὸ τῆς τέχνης περαίνοιτο ἂν καὶ διὰ σιγῆς, οἷον γραφικὴ καὶ ἀνδριαντοποιία καὶ ἄλλαι πολλαί.
Socrates: Now of all the arts, I think, some consist mostly in work and need little speech, and some need none at all, but the end of the art might be accomplished even through silence, such as painting and sculpture and many others.
τὰς τοιαύτας μοι δοκεῖς λέγειν, περὶ ἃς οὐ φῂς τὴν ῥητορικὴν εἶναι· ἢ οὔ;
It is such arts that you seem to me to speak of, about which you say rhetoric is not; or is it not?
ΓΟΡ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν καλῶς ὑπολαμβάνεις, ὦ Σώκρατες.
Gorgias: You understand it perfectly well, Socrates.
ΣΩ. ἕτεραι δέ γέ εἰσι τῶν τεχνῶν αἳ διὰ λόγου πᾶν περαίνουσι, καὶ ἔργου ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν ἢ οὐδενὸς προσδέονται ἢ βραχέος πάνυ, οἷον ἡ ἀριθμητικὴ καὶ λογιστικὴ καὶ γεωμετρικὴ καὶ πεττευτική γε καὶ ἄλλαι πολλαὶ τέχναι, ὧν ἔνιαι σχεδόν τι ἴσους τοὺς λόγους ἔχουσι ταῖς πράξεσιν, αἱ δὲ πολλαὶ πλείους, καὶ τὸ παράπαν πᾶσα ἡ πρᾶξις καὶ τὸ κῦρος αὐταῖς διὰ λόγων ἐστίν.
Socrates: But on the other hand, there are other arts which accomplish everything through speech, and need, so to speak, either no work or very little, such as arithmetic, calculation, geometry, draughts, and many other arts; some of which have their speeches almost equal to their actions, but most of them have more, and altogether their whole activity and validity are through speeches.
τῶν τοιούτων τινά μοι δοκεῖς λέγειν τὴν ῥητορικήν.
It is one of this sort of arts that you seem to me to call rhetoric.
ΓΟΡ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
Gorgias: You speak the truth.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ οὔτοι τούτων γε οὐδεμίαν οἶμαί σε βούλεσθαι ῥητορικὴν καλεῖν, οὐχ ὅτι τῷ ῥήματι οὕτως εἶπες, ὅτι ἡ διὰ λόγου τὸ κῦρος ἔχουσα ῥητορική ἐστιν, καὶ ὑπολάβοι ἄν τις, εἰ βούλοιτο δυσχεραίνειν ἐν τοῖς λόγοις,
τὴν ἀριθμητικὴν ἄρα ῥητορικήν, ὦ Γοργία, λέγεις; ἀλλʼ οὐκ οἶμαί σε οὔτε τὴν ἀριθμητικὴν οὔτε τὴν γεωμετρίαν ῥητορικὴν λέγειν.
Socrates: But yet I do not think you want to call any of these rhetoric, not because you said so in words—that the art which has its validity through speech is rhetoric—so that someone, if he wished to be captious in argument, might object: "Do you then, Gorgias, call arithmetic rhetoric?" But I do not think you call either arithmetic or geometry rhetoric.