§296ΣΩ.
οὗτος αὖ,
ἔφη,
προσαποκρίνεται τοῖς ἐρωτωμένοις.
SOCRATES: "'This one again,' he said, 'is answering in addition to what is asked.
οὐ γὰρ ἔγωγε ἐρωτῶ ὅτῳ, ἀλλʼ εἰ ἐπίστασαί τῳ. πλέον αὖ, ἔφην ἐγώ, τοῦ δέοντος ἀπεκρινάμην ὑπὸ ἀπαιδευσίας.
For I am not asking by what, but if you know by something.' 'Once more,' I said, 'I have answered more than what is necessary through my lack of education.
ἀλλὰ συγγίγνωσκέ μοι· ἀποκρινοῦμαι γὰρ ἤδη ἁπλῶς ὅτι ἐπίσταμαί τῳ ἃ ἐπίσταμαι. —
πότερον,
ἦ δʼ ὅς,
τῷ αὐτῷ τούτῳ γʼ ἀεί, ἢ ἔστι μὲν ὅτε τούτῳ, ἔστιν δὲ ὅτε ἑτέρῳ; —ἀεί, ὅταν ἐπίστωμαι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, τούτῳ. οὐκ αὖ,
ἔφη,
παύσῃ παραφθεγγόμενος; ἀλλʼ ὅπως μή τι ἡμᾶς σφήλῃ τὸ
ἀεὶ
τοῦτο. οὔκουν ἡμᾶς γʼ,
ἔφη,
ἀλλʼ εἴπερ, σέ.
But forgive me; for now I shall answer simply that I know what I know by something.' 'Is it,' he said, 'always by this same thing, or is there a time when it is by this, and a time when it is by another?' '—Always, whenever I know,' I said, 'by this.' 'Will you not again,' he said, 'cease adding side-remarks?' 'But [I did so] lest this "always" should trip us up in some way.' 'Not us, at any rate,' he said, 'but if indeed [it trips up anyone], you.
ἀλλʼ ἀποκρίνου· ἦ ἀεὶ τούτῳ ἐπίστασαι; —ἀεί, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐπειδὴ δεῖ ἀφελεῖν τὸ
ὅταν. —
οὐκοῦν ἀεὶ μὲν τούτῳ ἐπίστασαι· ἀεὶ δʼ ἐπιστάμενος πότερον τὰ μὲν τούτῳ ἐπίστασαι ᾧ ἐπίστασαι, τὰ δʼ ἄλλῳ, ἢ τούτῳ πάντα;
But answer: do you always know by this?' '—Always,' I said, 'since it is necessary to remove the "whenever".' 'Therefore you always know by this; but since you always know, do you know some things by this by which you know, and others by another, or all things by this?' '—By this,' I said, 'all things, at least those that I know.' 'There it is again!' he said.
—τούτῳ, ἔφην ἐγώ, ἅπαντα, ἅ γʼ ἐπίσταμαι. τοῦτʼ ἐκεῖνο,
ἔφη· ἥκει τὸ αὐτὸ παράφθεγμα. ἀλλʼ ἀφαιρῶ, ἔφην ἐγώ, τὸ
ἅ γʼ ἐπίσταμαι. ἀλλὰ μηδὲ ἕν,
ἔφη,
ἀφέλῃς· οὐδὲν γάρ σου δέομαι.
'The same side-remark has arrived.' 'But I remove,' I said, 'the "at least those that I know".' 'But do not remove even one thing,' he said, 'for I have no need of anything from you.
ἀλλά μοι ἀπόκριναι· δύναιο ἂν ἅπαντα ἐπίστασθαι, εἰ μὴ πάντα ἐπίσταιο; τέρας γὰρ ἂν εἴη, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
But answer me: could you know all things, if you did not know all things?' 'For it would be a monster,' I said.
καὶ ὃς εἶπε· Προστίθει τοίνυν ἤδη ὅτι βούλει· ἅπαντα γὰρ ὁμολογεῖς ἐπίστασθαι. ἔοικα, ἔφην ἐγώ, ἐπειδήπερ γε οὐδεμίαν ἔχει δύναμιν τὸ
ἃ ἐπίσταμαι,
πάντα δὲ ἐπίσταμαι. οὐκοῦν καὶ ἀεὶ ὡμολόγηκας ἐπίστασθαι τούτῳ ᾧ ἐπίστασαι, εἴτε ὅταν ἐπίστῃ εἴτε ὅπως βούλει· ἀεὶ γὰρ ὡμολόγηκας ἐπίστασθαι καὶ ἅμα πάντα.
And he said, 'Add then now whatever you wish; for you agree that you know all things.' 'It seems so,' I said, 'since indeed "what I know" has no power, and I know all things.' 'Therefore you have also agreed that you always know by this by which you know, whether "whenever you know" or however you wish; for you have agreed that you always know, and at the same time know all things.
δῆλον οὖν ὅτι καὶ παῖς ὢν ἠπίστω, καὶ ὅτʼ ἐγίγνου, καὶ ὅτʼ ἐφύου· καὶ πρὶν αὐτὸς γενέσθαι, καὶ πρὶν οὐρανὸν καὶ γῆν γενέσθαι, ἠπίστω ἅπαντα, εἴπερ ἀεὶ ἐπίστασαι.
It is clear then that even when you were a child you knew, and when you were being born, and when you were growing; and before you yourself came to be, and before heaven and earth came to be, you knew all things, if indeed you always know.
καὶ ναὶ μὰ Δία,
ἔφη,
αὐτὸς ἀεὶ ἐπιστήσῃ καὶ ἅπαντα, ἂν ἐγὼ βούλωμαι. ἀλλὰ βουληθείης, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ πολυτίμητε Εὐθύδημε, εἰ δὴ τῷ ὄντι ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
And yes, by Zeus,' he said, 'you yourself shall always know, and all things, if I wish.' 'But may you so wish,' I said, 'O highly honored Euthydemus, if indeed you speak the truth in reality.
ἀλλʼ οὔ σοι πάνυ πιστεύω ἱκανῷ εἶναι, εἰ μή σοι συμβουληθείη ὁ ἀδελφός σου οὑτοσὶ Διονυσόδωρος· οὕτω δὲ τάχα ἄν.
But I do not quite believe that you are sufficient, unless your brother here, Dionysodorus, should join in wishing it with you; but in that way perhaps it might be.
εἴπετον δέ μοι, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ— τὰ μὲν γὰρ ἄλλα οὐκ ἔχω ὑμῖν πῶς ἀμφισβητοίην, οὕτως εἰς σοφίαν τερατώδεσιν ἀνθρώποις, ὅπως ἐγὼ οὐ πάντα ἐπίσταμαι, ἐπειδή γε ὑμεῖς φατε—τὰ δὲ τοιάδε πῶς φῶ ἐπίστασθαι, Εὐθύδημε, ὡς οἱ ἀγαθοὶ ἄνδρες ἄδικοί εἰσιν;
But tell me,' I said— 'for as to other things, I do not know how I could dispute with you, who are such monstrous men in wisdom, that I do not know all things, since you say so—but how can I say that I know such a thing as this, Euthydemus, namely that good men are unjust?
φέρε εἰπέ, τοῦτο ἐπίσταμαι ἢ οὐκ ἐπίσταμαι; ἐπίστασαι μέντοι,
ἔφη.
Come, tell me, do I know this or do I not know it?' 'Indeed you know it,' he said.
τί; ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
'What?' I said.
ὅτι οὐκ ἄδικοί εἰσιν οἱ ἀγαθοί. §297ΣΩ. πάνυ γε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πάλαι.
'That the good are not unjust.' SOCRATES: 'Quite so,' I said, 'long ago.
ἀλλʼ οὐ τοῦτο ἐρωτῶ· ἀλλʼ ὡς ἄδικοί εἰσιν οἱ ἀγαθοί, ποῦ ἐγὼ τοῦτο ἔμαθον; οὐδαμοῦ,
ἔφη ὁ Διονυσόδωρος.
But I am not asking this; rather, where did I learn that the good are unjust?' 'Nowhere,' said Dionysodorus.
οὐκ ἄρα ἐπίσταμαι, ἔφην, τοῦτο ἐγώ.
'Then I do not know this,' I said.
διαφθείρεις,
ἔφη,
τὸν λόγον,
ὁ Εὐθύδημος πρὸς τὸν Διονυσόδωρον,
καὶ φανήσεται οὑτοσὶ οὐκ ἐπιστάμενος, καὶ ἐπιστήμων ἅμα ὢν καὶ ἀνεπιστήμων. καὶ ὁ Διονυσόδωρος ἠρυθρίασεν.
'You are ruining the argument,' said Euthydemus to Dionysodorus, 'and this man here will appear not to know, and to be at the same time both knowing and not knowing.' And Dionysodorus blushed.
ἀλλὰ σύ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πῶς λέγεις, ὦ Εὐθύδημε;
'But you,' I said, 'how do you say, Euthydemus?
οὐ δοκεῖ σοι ὀρθῶς ἁδελφὸς λέγειν ὁ πάντʼ εἰδώς; ἀδελφὸς γάρ,
ἔφη,
ἐγώ εἰμι Εὐθυδήμου,
ταχὺ ὑπολαβὼν ὁ Διονυσόδωρος;
Does it not seem to you that your brother, who knows all things, speaks correctly?' 'For am I indeed the brother of Euthydemus?' Dionysodorus quickly interrupting.
κἀγὼ εἶπον· ἔασον, ὠγαθέ, ἕως ἂν Εὐθύδημός με διδάξῃ ὡς ἐπίσταμαι τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς ἄνδρας ὅτι ἄδικοί εἰσι, καὶ μή μοι φθονήσῃς τοῦ μαθήματος. φεύγεις,
ἔφη,
ὦ Σώκρατες,
ὁ Διονυσόδωρος,
καὶ οὐκ ἐθέλεις ἀποκρίνεσθαι. εἰκότως γʼ, εἶπον ἐγώ· ἥττων γάρ εἰμι καὶ τοῦ ἑτέρου ὑμῶν, ὥστε πολλοῦ δέω μὴ οὐ δύο γε φεύγειν.
And I said, 'Let it be, my good friend, until Euthydemus teaches me that I know that good men are unjust, and do not grudge me the lesson.' 'You are running away, Socrates,' said Dionysodorus, 'and you are unwilling to answer.' 'With good reason,' I said, 'for I am weaker than even one of you, so that I am far from not fleeing from two.
πολὺ γάρ πού εἰμι φαυλότερος τοῦ Ἡρακλέους, ὃς οὐχ οἷός τε ἦν τῇ τε ὕδρᾳ διαμάχεσθαι, σοφιστρίᾳ οὔσῃ καὶ διὰ τὴν σοφίαν ἀνιείσῃ, εἰ μίαν κεφαλὴν τοῦ λόγου τις ἀποτέμοι, πολλὰς ἀντὶ τῆς μιᾶς, καὶ καρκίνῳ τινὶ ἑτέρῳ σοφιστῇ ἐκ θαλάττης ἀφιγμένῳ, νεωστί, μοι δοκεῖν, καταπεπλευκότι·
For I am surely much inferior to Heracles, who was not able to fight at once against both the Hydra—who was a female sophist and, because of her wisdom, when someone cut off one head of the argument, sent up many instead of the one—and against a certain crab, another sophist arrived from the sea, having recently sailed into port, as it seems to me.
ὃς ἐπειδὴ αὐτὸν ἐλύπει οὕτως ἐκ τοῦ ἐπʼ ἀριστερὰ λέγων καὶ δάκνων, τὸν Ἰόλεων τὸν ἀδελφιδοῦν βοηθὸν ἐπεκαλέσατο, ὁ δὲ αὐτῷ ἱκανῶς ἐβοήθησεν. ὁ δʼ ἐμὸς Ἰόλεως εἰ ἔλθοι, πλέον ἂν θάτερον ποιήσειεν.
When this crab was vexing him by speaking and biting from the left, he called upon his nephew Iolaus for help, and Iolaus helped him sufficiently.
ἀπόκριναι δή,
ἔφη ὁ Διονυσόδωρος,
ὁπότε σοι ταῦτα ὕμνηται· πότερον ὁ Ἰόλεως τοῦ Ἡρακλέους μᾶλλον ἦν ἀδελφιδοῦς ἢ σός; κράτιστον τοίνυν μοι, ὦ Διονυσόδωρε, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἀποκρίνασθαί σοι.
But if my Iolaus should come, he would make the other.' 'Answer then,' said Dionysodorus, 'now that you have sung these things: was Iolaus more the nephew of Heracles, or yours?' 'Then it is best for me, Dionysodorus,' I said, 'to answer you.
οὐ γὰρ μὴ ἀνῇς ἐρωτῶν, σχεδόν τι ἐγὼ τοῦτʼ εὖ οἶδα, φθονῶν καὶ διακωλύων, ἵνα μὴ διδάξῃ με Εὐθύδημος ἐκεῖνο τὸ σοφόν. —
ἀποκρίνου δή,
ἔφη.
For you will not stop asking, I know this well enough, grudging and preventing Euthydemus from teaching me that wisdom.' 'Answer then,' he said.
—ἀποκρίνομαι δή, εἶπον, ὅτι τοῦ Ἡρακλέους ἦν ὁ Ἰόλεως ἀδελφιδοῦς, ἐμὸς δʼ, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, οὐδʼ ὁπωστιοῦν.
'—I answer then,' I said, 'that Iolaus was the nephew of Heracles, but mine, as it seems to me, not in any way whatsoever.
οὐ γὰρ Πατροκλῆς ἦν αὐτῷ πατήρ, ὁ ἐμὸς ἀδελφός, ἀλλὰ παραπλήσιον μὲν τοὔνομα Ἰφικλῆς, ὁ Ἡρακλέους ἀδελφός. —
Πατροκλῆς δέ,
ἦ δʼ ὅς,
σός; —πάνυ γʼ, ἔφην ἐγώ, ὁμομήτριός γε, οὐ μέντοι ὁμοπάτριος. —
ἀδελφὸς ἄρα ἐστί σοι καὶ οὐκ ἀδελφός. —οὐχ ὁμοπάτριός γε, ὦ βέλτιστε, ἔφην· ἐκείνου μὲν γὰρ Χαιρέδημος ἦν πατήρ, ἐμὸς δὲ Σωφρονίσκος. —
πατὴρ δὲ ἦν,
ἔφη,
Σωφρονίσκος καὶ Χαιρέδημος;
For Patrocles, my brother, was not his father, but rather Iphicles, whose name is similar, the brother of Heracles.' 'And Patrocles,' he said, 'is yours?' '—Certainly,' I said, 'by the same mother, but not by the same father.' 'He is then your brother, and not your brother.' '—Not by the same father, at any rate, my good sir,' I said, 'for Chaeredemus was his father, but Sophroniscus was mine.' 'And was Sophroniscus and Chaeredemus a father?' he said."