§222καὶ εἰ ἄρα τις ἕτερος ἑτέρου ἐπιθυμεῖ, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ παῖδες, ἢ ἐρᾷ, οὐκ ἄν ποτε ἐπεθύμει οὐδὲ ἤρα οὐδὲ ἐφίλει, εἰ μὴ οἰκεῖός πῃ τῷ ἐρωμένῳ ἐτύγχανεν ὢν ἢ κατὰ τὴν ψυχὴν ἢ κατά τι τῆς ψυχῆς ἦθος ἢ τρόπους ἢ εἶδος. —
πάνυ γε,
ἔφη ὁ Μενέξενος· ὁ δὲ Λύσις ἐσίγησεν. —εἶεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ. τὸ μὲν δὴ φύσει οἰκεῖον ἀναγκαῖον ἡμῖν πέφανται φιλεῖν. —
ἔοικεν,
ἔφη. —ἀναγκαῖον ἄρα τῷ γνησίῳ ἐραστῇ καὶ μὴ προσποιήτῳ φιλεῖσθαι ὑπὸ τῶν παιδικῶν. — ὁ μὲν οὖν Λύσις καὶ ὁ Μενέξενος μόγις πως ἐπενευσάτην, ὁ δὲ Ἱπποθάλης ὑπὸ τῆς ἡδονῆς παντοδαπὰ ἠφίει χρώματα.
"And if, then, someone desires another," I said, "O boys, or loves him, he would never desire nor love nor befriend him, unless he happened to be in some way akin to the beloved, either in his soul, or in some character of his soul, or habits, or form."— "Certainly," said Menexenus; but Lysis remained silent. —"Well then," I said, "that which is by nature akin has appeared to us necessary to love."— "It seems so," he said. —"It is necessary then for the genuine lover, and not the pretended one, to be loved by his beloved."— Lysis and Menexenus nodded assent with some difficulty, but Hippothales, out of pleasure, changed all kinds of colors.
καὶ ἐγὼ εἶπον, βουλόμενος τὸν λόγον ἐπισκέψασθαι, εἰ μέν τι τὸ οἰκεῖον τοῦ ὁμοίου διαφέρει, λέγοιμεν ἄν τι, ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, ὦ Λύσι τε καὶ Μενέξενε, περὶ φίλου, ὃ ἔστιν· εἰ δὲ ταὐτὸν τυγχάνει ὂν ὅμοιόν τε καὶ οἰκεῖον, οὐ ῥᾴδιον ἀποβαλεῖν τὸν πρόσθεν λόγον, ὡς οὐ τὸ ὅμοιον τῷ ὁμοίῳ κατὰ τὴν ὁμοιότητα ἄχρηστον· τὸ δὲ ἄχρηστον φίλον ὁμολογεῖν πλημμελές.
And I said, wishing to examine the argument: "If the akin differs in some way from the like, we might be saying something, as it seems to me, O Lysis and Menexenus, about what a friend is; but if the like and the akin happen to be the same, it is not easy to reject our former argument, by asserting that the like is not useless to the like because of its likeness; and to agree that the useless is a friend is out of tune.
βούλεσθʼ οὖν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐπειδὴ ὥσπερ μεθύομεν ὑπὸ τοῦ λόγου, συγχωρήσωμεν καὶ φῶμεν ἕτερόν τι εἶναι τὸ οἰκεῖον τοῦ ὁμοίου; —
πάνυ γε. —πότερον οὖν καὶ τἀγαθὸν οἰκεῖον θήσομεν παντί, τὸ δὲ κακὸν ἀλλότριον εἶναι;
Do you wish then," I said, "since we are as it were drunk with the argument, that we compromise and say that the akin is something different from the like?"— "Certainly." —"Shall we then also set down that the good is akin to everyone, and the bad is alien?
ἢ τὸ μὲν κακὸν τῷ κακῷ οἰκεῖον, τῷ δὲ ἀγαθῷ τὸ ἀγαθόν, τῷ δὲ μήτε ἀγαθῷ μήτε κακῷ τὸ μήτε ἀγαθὸν μήτε κακόν; —οὕτως ἐφάτην δοκεῖν σφίσιν ἕκαστον ἑκάστῳ οἰκεῖον εἶναι. —πάλιν ἄρα, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ παῖδες, οὓς τὸ πρῶτον λόγους ἀπεβαλόμεθα περὶ φιλίας, εἰς τούτους εἰσπεπτώκαμεν· ὁ γὰρ ἄδικος τῷ ἀδίκῳ καὶ ὁ κακὸς τῷ κακῷ οὐδὲν ἧττον φίλος ἔσται ἢ ὁ ἀγαθὸς τῷ ἀγαθῷ. —
ἔοικεν,
ἔφη.
Or that the bad is akin to the bad, the good to the good, and that which is neither good nor bad to that which is neither good nor bad?"— They said that it seemed to them that each was thus akin to each. —"Then once again," I said, "O boys, we have fallen into those very arguments about friendship which we first rejected; for the unjust will be no less a friend to the unjust, and the bad to the bad, than the good to the good."— "It seems so," he said. —"What then?
—τί δέ; τὸ ἀγαθὸν καὶ τὸ οἰκεῖον ἂν ταὐτὸν φῶμεν εἶναι, ἄλλο τι ἢ ὁ ἀγαθὸς τῷ ἀγαθῷ μόνον φίλος; —
πάνυ γε. —ἀλλὰ μὴν καὶ τοῦτό γε ᾠόμεθα ἐξελέγξαι ἡμᾶς αὐτούς· ἢ οὐ μέμνησθε; —
μεμνήμεθα.
If we say that the good and the akin are the same, is it not the case that only the good is a friend to the good?"— "Certainly." —"But indeed we thought that we had refuted ourselves even on this point; or do you not remember?"— "We remember." — "What use then could we still make of the argument?
τί οὖν ἂν ἔτι χρησαίμεθα τῷ λόγῳ; ἢ δῆλον ὅτι οὐδέν;
Or is it clear that none?
δέομαι οὖν, ὥσπερ οἱ σοφοὶ ἐν τοῖς δικαστηρίοις, τὰ εἰρημένα ἅπαντα ἀναπεμπάσασθαι.
I ask then, like the clever speakers in the law courts, to recount all that has been said.
εἰ γὰρ μήτε οἱ φιλούμενοι μήτε οἱ φιλοῦντες μήτε οἱ ὅμοιοι μήτε οἱ ἀνόμοιοι μήτε οἱ ἀγαθοὶ μήτε οἱ οἰκεῖοι μήτε τὰ ἄλλα ὅσα διεληλύθαμεν—οὐ γὰρ ἔγωγε ἔτι μέμνημαι ὑπὸ τοῦ πλήθους—ἀλλʼ εἰ μηδὲν τούτων φίλον ἐστίν, ἐγὼ μὲν οὐκέτι ἔχω τί λέγω. §223ταῦτα δʼ εἰπὼν ἐν νῷ εἶχον ἄλλον ἤδη τινὰ τῶν πρεσβυτέρων κινεῖν· κᾆτα, ὥσπερ δαίμονές τινες, προσελθόντες οἱ παιδαγωγοί, ὅ τε τοῦ Μενεξένου καὶ ὁ τοῦ Λύσιδος, ἔχοντες αὐτῶν τοὺς ἀδελφούς, παρεκάλουν καὶ ἐκέλευον αὐτοὺς οἴκαδʼ ἀπιέναι· ἤδη γὰρ ἦν ὀψέ.
For if neither those who are loved, nor those who love, nor the like, nor the unlike, nor the good, nor the akin, nor all the other things we have gone through—for I at least no longer remember them because of their number—if none of these is a friend, I no longer have anything to say." Having said this, I was intending to stir up some other of the elders; but then, like some spirits, the tutors came up, both the tutor of Menexenus and that of Lysis, holding their brothers, and they called and ordered them to go home; for it was already late.
τὸ μὲν οὖν πρῶτον καὶ ἡμεῖς καὶ οἱ περιεστῶτες αὐτοὺς ἀπηλαύνομεν· ἐπειδὴ δὲ οὐδὲν ἐφρόντιζον ἡμῶν, ἀλλʼ ὑποβαρβαρίζοντες ἠγανάκτουν τε καὶ οὐδὲν ἧττον ἐκάλουν, ἀλλʼ ἐδόκουν ἡμῖν ὑποπεπωκότες ἐν τοῖς Ἑρμαίοις ἄποροι εἶναι προσφέρεσθαι, ἡττηθέντες οὖν αὐτῶν διελύσαμεν τὴν συνουσίαν.
At first, both we and those standing around were driving them away; but when they paid no attention to us, but in their foreign-sounding Greek grew angry and called none the less, and seemed to us, having drunk a bit at the Hermaea, to be difficult to deal with, we yielded to them and broke up the gathering.
ὅμως δʼ ἔγωγε ἤδη ἀπιόντων αὐτῶν, νῦν μέν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Λύσι τε καὶ Μενέξενε, καταγέλαστοι γεγόναμεν ἐγώ τε, γέρων ἀνήρ, καὶ ὑμεῖς.
But nevertheless, as they were already leaving, I said: "Now, O Lysis and Menexenus, we have become ridiculous, both I, an old man, and you.
ἐροῦσι γὰρ οἵδε ἀπιόντες ὡς οἰόμεθα ἡμεῖς ἀλλήλων φίλοι εἶναι— καὶ ἐμὲ γὰρ ἐν ὑμῖν τίθημι—οὔπω δὲ ὅτι ἔστιν ὁ φίλος οἷοί τε ἐγενόμεθα ἐξευρεῖν.
For these people, as they leave, will say that we think we are friends to one another—for I place myself among you—but we have not yet been able to find out what a friend is."