§207ὧν δὴ καὶ ὁ Λύσις ἦν, καὶ εἱστήκει ἐν τοῖς παισί τε καὶ νεανίσκοις ἐστεφανωμένος καὶ τὴν ὄψιν διαφέρων, οὐ τὸ καλὸς εἶναι μόνον ἄξιος ἀκοῦσαι, ἀλλʼ ὅτι καλός τε κἀγαθός.
Among whom Lysis also was, and he was standing among the boys and the young men with a wreath on, and distinguished in his appearance, not only worthy to be called beautiful, but because he was beautiful and good.
καὶ ἡμεῖς εἰς τὸ καταντικρὺ ἀποχωρήσαντες ἐκαθεζόμεθα—ἦν γὰρ αὐτόθι ἡσυχία—καί τι ἀλλήλοις διελεγόμεθα.
And we, having withdrawn to the opposite side, sat down—for there was quiet there—and talked about something with one another.
περιστρεφόμενος οὖν ὁ Λύσις θαμὰ ἐπεσκοπεῖτο ἡμᾶς, καὶ δῆλος ἦν ἐπιθυμῶν προσελθεῖν.
Lysis, therefore, turning around often, kept looking at us, and it was plain that he desired to come over.
τέως μὲν οὖν ἠπόρει τε καὶ ὤκνει μόνος προσιέναι, ἔπειτα ὁ Μενέξενος ἐκ τῆς αὐλῆς μεταξὺ παίζων εἰσέρχεται, καὶ ὡς εἶδεν ἐμέ τε καὶ τὸν Κτήσιππον, ᾔει παρακαθιζησόμενος·
For a while, then, he was at a loss and hesitated to come over alone; but then Menexenus came in from the courtyard in the middle of his play, and when he saw me and Ctesippus, he came over to sit down beside us.
ἰδὼν οὖν αὐτὸν ὁ Λύσις εἵπετο καὶ συμπαρεκαθέζετο μετὰ τοῦ Μενεξένου.
Seeing him, therefore, Lysis followed and sat down together with Menexenus.
προσῆλθον δὴ καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι, καὶ δὴ καὶ ὁ Ἱπποθάλης, ἐπειδὴ πλείους ἑώρα ἐφισταμένους, τούτους ἐπηλυγισάμενος προσέστη ᾗ μὴ ᾤετο κατόψεσθαι τὸν λύσιν, δεδιὼς μὴ αὐτῷ ἀπεχθάνοιτο· καὶ οὕτω προσεστὼς ἠκροᾶτο.
Then the others also approached, and indeed Hippothales too, when he saw several standing around, shielded himself behind them and stood in a place where he thought Lysis would not see him, fearing lest he should become offensive to him; and standing thus, he listened.
καὶ ἐγὼ πρὸς τὸν Μενέξενον ἀποβλέψας, ὦ παῖ Δημοφῶντος, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, πότερος ὑμῶν πρεσβύτερος; ἀμφισβητοῦμεν,
ἔφη.
And I, looking toward Menexenus, said: "O son of Demophon, which of you two is the elder?" "We dispute about it," he said.
οὐκοῦν καὶ ὁπότερος γενναιότερος, ἐρίζοιτʼ ἄν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
"Then about which of you is the more noble, you would also contend?" I said.
πάνυ γε,
ἔφη.
"Certainly," he said.
καὶ μὴν ὁπότερός γε καλλίων, ὡσαύτως. ἐγελασάτην οὖν ἄμφω.
"And indeed, which is the more beautiful, likewise." Then they both laughed.
οὐ μὴν ὁπότερός γε, ἔφην, πλουσιώτερος ὑμῶν, οὐκ ἐρήσομαι· φίλω γάρ ἐστον.
"However, which of you is the wealthier, I will not ask," I said, "for you are friends.
ἦ γάρ; πάνυ γʼ,
ἐφάτην.
Is it not so?" "Certainly," they both said.
οὐκοῦν κοινὰ τά γε φίλων λέγεται, ὥστε τούτῳ γε οὐδὲν διοίσετον, εἴπερ ἀληθῆ περὶ τῆς φιλίας λέγετον. συνεφάτην.
"Then, the possessions of friends are said to be common, so that in this respect you will not differ at all, if indeed you speak the truth about your friendship." They both agreed.
ἐπεχείρουν δὴ μετὰ τοῦτο ἐρωτᾶν ὁπότερος δικαιότερος καὶ σοφώτερος αὐτῶν εἴη.
After this, I was proceeding to ask which of them was the more just and the wiser.
μεταξὺ οὖν τις προσελθὼν ἀνέστησε τὸν Μενέξενον, φάσκων καλεῖν τὸν παιδοτρίβην· ἐδόκει γάρ μοι ἱεροποιῶν τυγχάνειν.
But in the middle of this, someone came up and made Menexenus get up, saying that the trainer was calling him; for he seemed to me to happen to be performing the sacred rites.
ἐκεῖνος μὲν οὖν ᾤχετο· ἐγὼ δὲ τὸν λύσιν ἠρόμην, ἦ που, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ Λύσι, σφόδρα φιλεῖ σε ὁ πατὴρ καὶ ἡ μήτηρ; —
πάνυ γε,
ἦ δʼ ὅς.
So he went away; and I asked Lysis: "Surely, Lysis, your father and mother love you very much?" "Certainly," he said.
—οὐκοῦν βούλοιντο ἄν σε ὡς εὐδαιμονέστατον εἶναι; —
πῶς γὰρ οὔ; —δοκεῖ δέ σοι εὐδαίμων εἶναι ἄνθρωπος δουλεύων τε καὶ ᾧ μηδὲν ἐξείη ποιεῖν ὧν ἐπιθυμοῖ; —
μὰ Δίʼ οὐκ ἔμοιγε,
ἔφη.
"Then would they wish you to be as happy as possible?" "Of course, how could they not?" "And does a man seem to you to be happy when he is in a state of slavery and is not allowed to do anything of what he desires?" "No, by Zeus, not to me," he said.
—οὐκοῦν εἴ σε φιλεῖ ὁ πατὴρ καὶ ἡ μήτηρ καὶ εὐδαίμονά σε ἐπιθυμοῦσι γενέσθαι, τοῦτο παντὶ τρόπῳ δῆλον ὅτι προθυμοῦνται ὅπως ἂν εὐδαιμονοίης. —
πῶς γὰρ οὐχί; ἔφη.
"Then, if your father and mother love you and desire you to become happy, it is clear that they are eager by every means to make you happy." "How indeed could they not be?" he said.
—ἐῶσιν ἄρα σε ἃ βούλει ποιεῖν, καὶ οὐδὲν ἐπιπλήττουσιν οὐδὲ διακωλύουσι ποιεῖν ὧν ἂν ἐπιθυμῇς; —
ναὶ μὰ Δία ἐμέ γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ μάλα γε πολλὰ κωλύουσιν. — §208πῶς λέγεις; ἦν δʼ ἐγώ.
"Do they then allow you to do what you want, and do they not at all rebuke you or prevent you from doing what you desire?" "Yes, by Zeus, Socrates, they certainly do prevent me from doing very many things." "How do you say?" I said.
βουλόμενοί σε μακάριον εἶναι διακωλύουσι τοῦτο ποιεῖν ὃ ἂν βούλῃ;
"Wishing you to be happy, do they prevent you from doing what you want?
ὧδε δέ μοι λέγε. ἢν ἐπιθυμήσῃς ἐπί τινος τῶν τοῦ πατρὸς ἁρμάτων ὀχεῖσθαι λαβὼν τὰς ἡνίας, ὅταν ἁμιλλᾶται, οὐκ ἂν ἐῷέν σε ἀλλὰ διακωλύοιεν; —
μὰ Δίʼ οὐ μέντοι ἄν,
ἔφη,
ἐῷεν.
But tell me this: if you should desire to ride on one of your father's chariots, holding the reins, when he is competing, would they not allow you, but prevent you?" "No, by Zeus, they certainly would not allow me," he said.
—ἀλλὰ τίνα μήν; —
ἔστιν τις ἡνίοχος παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς μισθὸν φέρων. —πῶς λέγεις;
"But whom indeed would they?" "There is a certain charioteer who receives pay from my father." "How do you say?
μισθωτῷ μᾶλλον ἐπιτρέπουσιν ἢ σοὶ ποιεῖν ὅτι ἂν βούληται περὶ τοὺς ἵππους, καὶ προσέτι αὐτοῦ τούτου ἀργύριον τελοῦσιν; —
ἀλλὰ τί μήν; ἔφη.
Do they entrust a hired man rather than you to do whatever he wants with the horses, and in addition pay money to this very man?" "Certainly, what else?" he said.
—ἀλλὰ τοῦ ὀρικοῦ ζεύγους οἶμαι ἐπιτρέπουσίν σοι ἄρχειν, κἂν εἰ βούλοιο λαβὼν τὴν μάστιγα τύπτειν, ἐῷεν ἄν. —
πόθεν,
ἦ δʼ ὅς,
ἐῷεν;
"But I suppose they entrust you with the command of the mule team, and if you should wish to take the whip and strike them, they would allow you?" "How could they allow me?" he said.
—τί δέ; ἦν δʼ ἐγώ·
"What then?" I said.
οὐδενὶ ἔξεστιν αὐτοὺς τύπτειν; —
καὶ μάλα,
ἔφη,
τῷ ὀρεοκόμῳ. —δούλῳ ὄντι ἢ ἐλευθέρῳ; —
δούλῳ,
ἔφη.
"Is no one allowed to strike them?" "Certainly," he said, "the muleteer." "Being a slave or a free man?" "A slave," he said.
—καὶ δοῦλον, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἡγοῦνται περὶ πλείονος ἢ σὲ τὸν ὑόν, καὶ ἐπιτρέπουσι τὰ ἑαυτῶν μᾶλλον ἢ σοί, καὶ ἐῶσιν ποιεῖν ὅτι βούλεται, σὲ δὲ διακωλύουσι;
"And they value a slave, as it seems, more than you, their son, and entrust their affairs to him rather than to you, and allow him to do what he wants, but you they prevent?
καί μοι ἔτι τόδε εἰπέ. σὲ αὐτὸν ἐῶσιν ἄρχειν σεαυτοῦ, ἢ οὐδὲ τοῦτο ἐπιτρέπουσί σοι; —
πῶς γάρ,
ἔφη,
ἐπιτρέπουσιν;
And tell me this besides: do they allow you to rule yourself, or do they not even entrust this to you?" "How indeed could they entrust it?" he said.
—ἀλλʼ ἄρχει τίς σου; —
ὅδε, παιδαγωγός,
ἔφη.
"But does someone rule you?" "This one here, my pedagogue," he said.
—μῶν δοῦλος ὤν; —
ἀλλὰ τί μήν; ἡμέτερός γε,
ἔφη.
"Surely not a slave?" "Of course he is, our own," he said.
—ἦ δεινόν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ἐλεύθερον ὄντα ὑπὸ δούλου ἄρχεσθαι.
"It is a strange thing," I said, "that a free person should be ruled by a slave.
τί δὲ ποιῶν αὖ οὗτος ὁ παιδαγωγός σου ἄρχει; —
ἄγων δήπου,
ἔφη,
εἰς διδασκάλου.
And what does this pedagogue of yours do in ruling you?" "Leading me, of course, to the teachers," he said.
—μῶν μὴ καὶ οὗτοί σου ἄρχουσιν, οἱ διδάσκαλοι; —
πάντως δήπου. —παμπόλλους ἄρα σοι δεσπότας καὶ ἄρχοντας ἑκὼν ὁ πατὴρ ἐφίστησιν.
"Do they also rule you, those teachers?" "Absolutely, of course." "Then your father willingly sets over you a great many masters and rulers.
ἀλλʼ ἆρα ἐπειδὰν οἴκαδε ἔλθῃς παρὰ τὴν μητέρα, ἐκείνη σε ἐᾷ ποιεῖν ὅτι ἂν βούλῃ, ἵνʼ αὐτῇ μακάριος ᾖς, ἢ περὶ τὰ ἔρια ἢ περὶ τὸν ἱστόν, ὅταν ὑφαίνῃ;
But when you go home to your mother, does she allow you to do whatever you want, so that you may be happy in her eyes, either with the wool or with the loom when she is weaving?
οὔ τι γάρ που διακωλύει σε ἢ τῆς σπάθης ἢ τῆς κερκίδος ἢ ἄλλου του τῶν περὶ ταλασιουργίαν ὀργάνων ἅπτεσθαι. —καὶ ὃς γελάσας,
μὰ Δία,
ἔφη,
ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐ μόνον γε διακωλύει, ἀλλὰ καὶ τυπτοίμην ἂν εἰ ἁπτοίμην. —Ἡράκλεις, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, μῶν μή τι ἠδίκηκας τὸν πατέρα ἢ τὴν μητέρα; —
μὰ Δίʼ οὐκ ἔγωγε,
ἔφη.
Surely she does not prevent you from touching either the blade, or the shuttle, or any other of the wool-working tools?" And he laughed and said: "By Zeus, ¦208e Socrates, not only does she prevent me, but I should also be beaten if I touched them." "By Heracles," I said, "surely you have not done some wrong to your father or your mother?" "No, by Zeus, not I," he said.