Humanitext Reader

Plato · Laches §188

Nicias and Laches on Socrates' Examination

Passage 7 of 16 · Greek

Summary

Nicias describes the character of Socrates' relentless self-examination through dialogue and states that he welcomes it. Laches then expresses his own standard, declaring that he loves discussions only when they are spoken by a noble person whose deeds harmonize with his words, while he detests those of others.

§188ΝΙ. οὔ μοι δοκεῖς εἰδέναι ὅτι ὃς ἂν ἐγγύτατα Σωκράτους ᾖ καὶ πλησιάζῃ διαλεγόμενος, ἀνάγκη αὐτῷ, ἐὰν ἄρα καὶ περὶ ἄλλου του πρότερον ἄρξηται διαλέγεσθαι, μὴ παύεσθαι ὑπὸ τούτου περιαγόμενον τῷ λόγῳ, πρὶν ἂν ἐμπέσῃ εἰς τὸ διδόναι περὶ αὑτοῦ λόγον, ὅντινα τρόπον νῦν τε ζῇ καὶ ὅντινα τὸν παρεληλυθότα βίον βεβίωκεν· ἐπειδὰν δʼ ἐμπέσῃ, ὅτι οὐ πρότερον αὐτὸν ἀφήσει Σωκράτης, πρὶν ἂν βασανίσῃ ταῦτα εὖ τε καὶ καλῶς ἅπαντα.
Nicias: You do not seem to me to know that whoever is closest to Socrates and approaches him in discussion, it is necessary for him, even if he begins to discuss about something else first, not to stop being led around by him in argument, until he falls into giving an account of himself, in what manner he now lives and in what manner he has lived his past life; and when he has fallen into it, that Socrates will not let him go before he has examined all these things well and finely.
ἐγὼ δὲ συνήθης τέ εἰμι τῷδε καὶ οἶδʼ ὅτι ἀνάγκη ὑπὸ τούτου πάσχειν ταῦτα, καὶ ἔτι γε αὐτὸς ὅτι πείσομαι ταῦτα εὖ οἶδα· χαίρω γάρ, ὦ Λυσίμαχε, τῷ ἀνδρὶ πλησιάζων, καὶ οὐδὲν οἶμαι κακὸν εἶναι τὸ ὑπομιμνῄσκεσθαι ὅτι μὴ καλῶς ἢ πεποιήκαμεν ἢ ποιοῦμεν, ἀλλʼ εἰς τὸν ἔπειτα βίον προμηθέστερον ἀνάγκη εἶναι τὸν ταῦτα μὴ φεύγοντα ἀλλʼ ἐθέλοντα κατὰ τὸ τοῦ Σόλωνος καὶ ἀξιοῦντα μανθάνειν ἕωσπερ ἂν ζῇ, καὶ μὴ οἰόμενον αὐτῷ τὸ γῆρας νοῦν ἔχον προσιέναι.
I am both accustomed to this man and know that it is necessary to suffer these things by him, and further I well know that I myself will suffer these things; for I rejoice, Lysimachus, in approaching the man, and I think it is no bad thing to be reminded that we have done or are doing something not finely, but that one who does not flee these things, but is willing according to the saying of Solon and deems it right to learn as long as he lives, and does not think that old age comes to him possessing intelligence, must be more prudent for his future life.
ἐμοὶ μὲν οὖν οὐδὲν ἄηθες οὐδʼ αὖ ἀηδὲς ὑπὸ Σωκράτους βασανίζεσθαι, ἀλλὰ καὶ πάλαι σχεδόν τι ἠπιστάμην ὅτι οὐ περὶ τῶν μειρακίων ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος ἔσοιτο Σωκράτους παρόντος, ἀλλὰ περὶ ἡμῶν αὐτῶν.
To me, therefore, it is nothing unusual nor again unpleasant to be examined by Socrates, but indeed I knew pretty well long ago that our discussion would not be about the youths, since Socrates is present, but about ourselves.
ὅπερ οὖν λέγω, τὸ μὲν ἐμὸν οὐδὲν κωλύει Σωκράτει συνδιατρίβειν ὅπως οὗτος βούλεται· Λάχητα δὲ τόνδε ὅρα ὅπως ἔχει περὶ τοῦ τοιούτου.
As I say, then, my side prevents nothing from spending time with Socrates in whatever way he wishes; but look at Laches here, how he stands with regard to such a thing.
ΛΑ. ἁπλοῦν τό γʼ ἐμόν, ὦ Νικία, περὶ λόγων ἐστίν, εἰ δὲ βούλει, οὐχ ἁπλοῦν ἀλλὰ διπλοῦν· καὶ γὰρ ἂν δόξαιμί τῳ φιλόλογος εἶναι καὶ αὖ μισόλογος.
Laches: My side, Nicias, concerning discussions is simple, or if you wish, not simple but double; for I might seem to someone to be a lover of discussion, and again a hater of discussion.
ὅταν μὲν γὰρ ἀκούω ἀνδρὸς περὶ ἀρετῆς διαλεγομένου ἢ περί τινος σοφίας ὡς ἀληθῶς ὄντος ἀνδρὸς καὶ ἀξίου τῶν λόγων ὧν λέγει, χαίρω ὑπερφυῶς, θεώμενος ἅμα τόν τε λέγοντα καὶ τὰ λεγόμενα ὅτι πρέποντα ἀλλήλοις καὶ ἁρμόττοντά ἐστι.
For when I hear a man discussing virtue or some wisdom, who is truly a man and worthy of the words he speaks, I rejoice exceedingly, beholding at the same time both the speaker and the things spoken, that they are fitting and harmonious with each other.
καὶ κομιδῇ μοι δοκεῖ μουσικὸς ὁ τοιοῦτος εἶναι, ἁρμονίαν καλλίστην ἡρμοσμένος οὐ λύραν οὐδὲ παιδιᾶς ὄργανα, ἀλλὰ τῷ ὄντι αὐτὸς αὑτοῦ τὸν βίον σύμφωνον τοῖς λόγοις πρὸς τὰ ἔργα, ἀτεχνῶς δωριστὶ ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἰαστί, οἴομαι δὲ οὐδὲ φρυγιστὶ οὐδὲ λυδιστί, ἀλλʼ ἥπερ μόνη Ἑλληνική ἐστιν ἁρμονία.
And such a person seems to me to be entirely musical, having tuned the finest harmony, not a lyre nor instruments of play, but in reality himself having his own life in concord with his words towards his deeds, literally in the Dorian mode and not in the Ionian, and I think neither in the Phrygian nor in the Lydian, but in the one which alone is the Greek harmony.
ὁ μὲν οὖν τοιοῦτος χαίρειν με ποιεῖ φθεγγόμενος καὶ δοκεῖν ὁτῳοῦν φιλόλογον εἶναι—οὕτω σφόδρα ἀποδέχομαι παρʼ αὐτοῦ τὰ λεγόμενα—ὁ δὲ τἀναντία τούτου πράττων λυπεῖ με, ὅσῳ ἂν δοκῇ ἄμεινον λέγειν, τοσούτῳ μᾶλλον, καὶ ποιεῖ αὖ δοκεῖν εἶναι μισόλογον.
Such a person, then, makes me rejoice when he speaks, and makes me seem to anyone to be a lover of discussion—so strongly do I receive the things said by him—but one who does the opposite of this pains me, and the better he seems to speak, the more so, and makes me in turn seem to be a hater of discussion.

Notes

  1. 188aὅτι οὐ πρότερον — The conjunction ὅτι is repeated here (ὅτι οὐ πρότερον) to resume the dependent clause introduced by οὔ μοι δοκεῖς εἰδέναι ὅτι after a long series of intervening relative and conditional clauses.
  2. 188bἀνάγκη εἶναι τὸν ταῦτα μὴ φεύγοντα — Accusative with infinitive construction. The accusative article with participle τὸν μὴ φεύγοντα ('the one who does not flee') serves as the subject of the infinitive εἶναι, which depends on the impersonal expression ἀνάγκη [ἐστίν] ('it is necessary').
  3. 188dδωριστὶ ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἰαστί — 'In the Dorian mode and not in the Ionian'. The contrast of adverbs ending in -τί illustrates Laches' comparison of a life in harmony between words and deeds to the only true Greek musical mode (Dorian). The subsequent adverbs οὐδὲ φρυγιστὶ οὐδὲ λυδιστί are coordinated in the same way.

Cite this passage

Plato, Laches §188. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg019.humanitext-grc2:188

Please note the AI-draft status of the translation and the date accessed.

Translation, notes and summary are AI-generated drafts, revised through reader feedback.