§126ΘΕ. εὐξαίμην μὲν ἂν οἶμαι ἔγωγε τύραννος γενέσθαι, μάλιστα μὲν πάντων ἀνθρώπων, εἰ δὲ μή, ὡς πλείστων· καὶ σύ γʼ ἂν οἶμαι καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι πάντες ἄνθρωποι—ἔτι δέ γε ἴσως μᾶλλον θεὸς γενέσθαι—ἀλλʼ οὐ τούτου ἔλεγον ἐπιθυμεῖν.
Theages: I think I would indeed pray to become a tyrant, preferably of all human beings, but if not, of as many as possible; and so would you, I think, and all other human beings—and perhaps even more to become a god—but I did not say that I desire this.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ τί δή ἐστί ποτε οὗ ἐπιθυμεῖς;
Socrates: But what in the world is it that you desire?
οὐ τῶν πολιτῶν φῂς ἄρχειν ἐπιθυμεῖν;
Do you not say that you desire to rule over the citizens?
ΘΕ. οὐ βίᾳ γε οὐδʼ ὥσπερ οἱ τύραννοι ἀλλʼ ἑκόντων, ὥσπερ καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι οἱ ἐν τῇ πόλει ἐλλόγιμοι ἄνδρες.
Theages: Not by force, indeed, nor as tyrants do, but with their consent, just like the other reputable men in the city.
ΣΩ. ἆρά γε λέγεις ὥσπερ Θεμιστοκλῆς καὶ Περικλῆς καὶ Κίμων καὶ ὅσοι τὰ πολιτικὰ δεινοὶ γεγόνασιν;
Socrates: Do you mean, then, just like Themistocles, Pericles, Cimon, and all those who have become clever in political matters?
ΘΕ. νὴ Δία τούτους λέγω.
Theages: By Zeus, those are the ones I mean.
ΣΩ. τί οὖν εἰ τὰ ἱππικὰ ἐτύγχανες ἐπιθυμῶν σοφὸς γενέσθαι;
Socrates: What if, then, you happened to desire to become wise in horsemanship?
παρὰ τίνας ἂν ἀφικόμενος ᾠήθης δεινὸς ἔσεσθαι ἱππεύς;
To whom would you think you should go to become a clever horseman?
ἦ παρʼ ἄλλους τινὰς ἢ τοὺς ἱππικούς;
Would it be to any others than the horsemen?
ΘΕ. μὰ Δία οὐκ ἔγωγε.
Theages: By Zeus, I do not think so.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ παρʼ αὐτοὺς αὖ τοὺς δεινοὺς ὄντας ταῦτα, καὶ οἷς εἰσίν τε ἵπποι καὶ χρῶνται ἑκάστοτε καὶ οἰκείοις καὶ ἀλλοτρίοις πολλοῖς.
Socrates: But rather to those who are themselves clever in these matters, who possess horses and use many of them, both their own and those of others, on every occasion.
ΘΕ. δῆλον ὅτι.
Theages: Clearly.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ εἰ τὰ ἀκοντιστικὰ σοφὸς ἐβούλου γενέσθαι;
Socrates: And what if you wished to become wise in javelin-throwing?
οὐ παρὰ τοὺς ἀκοντιστικοὺς ᾤου ἂν ἐλθὼν σοφὸς ἔσεσθαι τούτους, οἷς ἔστιν τε ἀκόντια καὶ πολλοῖς καὶ ἀλλοτρίοις καὶ οἰκείοις ἑκάστοτε χρῶνται ἀκοντίοις;
Would you not think that by going to the javelin-throwers, who possess javelins and use many of them, both their own and those of others on every occasion, you would become wise?
ΘΕ. ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
Theages: It seems so to me.
ΣΩ. λέγε δή μοι· ἐπεὶ δὲ δὴ τὰ πολιτικὰ βούλει σοφὸς γενέσθαι, οἴει παρʼ ἄλλους τινὰς ἀφικόμενος σοφὸς ἔσεσθαι ἢ τοὺς πολιτικοὺς τούτους, τοὺς αὐτούς τε δεινοὺς ὄντας τὰ πολιτικὰ καὶ χρωμένους ἑκάστοτε τῇ τε αὑτῶν πόλει καὶ ἄλλαις πολλαῖς, καὶ Ἑλληνίσιν προσομιλοῦντας πόλεσιν καὶ βαρβάροις;
Socrates: Tell me then: since you wish to become wise in political matters, do you think that by going to any others you will become wise than to these political men, who are themselves clever in political matters and deal on every occasion both with their own city and with many others, associating with both Greek and barbarian cities?
ἢ δοκεῖς ἄλλοις τισὶν συγγενόμενος σοφὸς ἔσεσθαι ταῦτα ἅπερ οὗτοι, ἀλλʼ οὐκ αὐτοῖς τούτοις;
Or do you think that by associating with some others you will become wise in these very things that these men are, and not with these men themselves?
ΘΕ. ἀκήκοα γάρ, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὕς σέ φασιν λέγειν τοὺς λόγους, ὅτι τούτων τῶν πολιτικῶν ἀνδρῶν οἱ ὑεῖς οὐδὲν βελτίους εἰσὶν ἢ οἱ τῶν σκυτοτόμων· καί μοι δοκεῖς ἀληθέστατα λέγειν ἐξ ὧν ἐγὼ δύναμαι αἰσθέσθαι.
Theages: For I have heard, Socrates, the arguments which they say you speak, that the sons of these political men are no better than those of shoemakers; and you seem to me to speak most truly from what I am able to perceive.
ἀνόητος ἂν οὖν εἴην εἰ οἰοίμην τινὰ τούτων ἐμοὶ μὲν ἂν παραδοῦναι τὴν αὑτοῦ σοφίαν, τὸν δὲ ὑὸν τὸν αὑτοῦ μηδὲν ὠφελῆσαι, εἴ τι οἷός τʼ ἦν εἰς ταῦτα ὠφελεῖν ἄλλον ὁντιναοῦν ἀνθρώπων.
I should therefore be foolish if I thought that any of these men would transmit his own wisdom to me, while doing nothing to benefit his own son, if indeed he were able to benefit any other human being at all in these matters.
ΣΩ. τί οὖν ἄν, ὦ βέλτιστε ἀνδρῶν, χρήσαιο σαυτῷ, εἴ σοι ἐπειδὴ γένοιτο ὑὸς τοιαῦτα πράγματα παρέχοι, καὶ φαίη μὲν ἂν ἐπιθυμεῖν ἀγαθὸς γενέσθαι ζωγράφος, καὶ μέμφοιτο σοὶ τῷ πατρὶ ὅτι οὐκ ἐθέλεις ἀναλίσκειν εἰς αὐτὸν τούτων αὐτῶν ἕνεκα ἀργύριον, τοὺς δὲ δημιουργοὺς αὐτοῦ τούτου, τοὺς ζωγράφους, ἀτιμάζοι τε καὶ μὴ βούλοιτο παρʼ αὐτῶν μανθάνειν;
Socrates: What then, my excellent friend, would you do with yourself, if, when a son was born to you, he should cause you such trouble, and say that he desires to become a good painter, and blame you, his father, because you are not willing to spend money on him for this very purpose, yet he should hold in contempt the craftsmen of this very thing, the painters, and not wish to learn from them?
ἢ τοὺς αὐλητάς, βουλόμενος αὐλητὴς γενέσθαι, ἢ τοὺς κιθαριστάς;
Or flute-players, wishing to become a flute-player, or cithara-players?
ἔχοις ἂν αὐτῷ ὅτι χρῷο καὶ ὅποι πέμποις ἄλλοσε μὴ ἐθέλοντα παρὰ τούτων μανθάνειν;
Would you know what to do with him or where else to send him, if he was unwilling to learn from these men?
ΘΕ. μὰ Δία οὐκ ἔγωγε.
Theages: By Zeus, I would not.