§124ΘΕ. ἧι τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει, ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
Theages: Those in the city, it seems to me.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ἐν τῇ πόλει εἰσὶν καὶ οἱ κάμνοντες;
Socrates: Are there not, then, also sick people in the city?
ΘΕ. ναί, ἀλλʼ οὐ τούτων λέγω μόνον, ἀλλὰ καὶ τῶν ἄλλων τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει.
Theages: Yes, but I do not mean those only, but also all the others in the city.
ΣΩ. ἆρά γε μανθάνω ἣν λέγεις τέχνην;
Socrates: I wonder if I understand the art you mean?
δοκεῖς γάρ μοι λέγειν οὐχ ᾗ τῶν θεριζόντων ἐπιστάμεθα ἄρχειν καὶ τρυγώντων καὶ τῶν φυτευόντων καὶ σπειρόντων καὶ ἁλοώντων· αὕτη μὲν γὰρ γεωργική, ᾗ τούτων ἄρχομεν.
For you seem to me to speak not of that by which we know how to rule those who reap, harvest grapes, plant, sow, and thresh; for this is agriculture, by which we rule these.
ἦ γάρ; ΘΕ. ναί.
Is it not? Theages: Yes.
ΣΩ. οὐδέ γε οἶμαι ᾗ τῶν πριζόντων καὶ τρυπώντων καὶ ξεόντων καὶ τορνευόντων συμπάντων ἐπιστάμεθα ἄρχειν, οὐ ταύτην λέγεις· αὕτη μὲν γὰρ οὐ τεκτονική;
Socrates: Nor, I think, do you mean that by which we know how to rule all those who saw, drill, plane, and turn; for this is carpentry, is it not?
ΘΕ. ναί.
Theages: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ ἴσως ᾗ τούτων τε πάντων καὶ αὐτῶν τῶν γεωργῶν καὶ τῶν τεκτόνων καὶ τῶν δημιουργῶν ἁπάντων καὶ τῶν ἰδιωτῶν καὶ τῶν γυναικῶν καὶ ἀνδρῶν, ταύτην ἴσως λέγεις τὴν σοφίαν.
Socrates: But perhaps you mean that wisdom by which we rule all of these, and the farmers themselves, the carpenters, all the craftsmen, and the private citizens, both women and men.
ΘΕ. ταύτην πάλαι, ὦ Σώκρατες, βούλομαι λέγειν.
Theages: That is what I have been wanting to say for a long time, Socrates.
ΣΩ. ἔχεις οὖν εἰπεῖν, Αἴγισθος ὁ Ἀγαμέμνονα ἀποκτείνας ἐν Ἄργει ἆρα τούτων ἦρχεν ὧν σὺ λέγεις, τῶν τε δημιουργῶν καὶ ἰδιωτῶν καὶ ἀνδρῶν καὶ γυναικῶν συμπάντων, ἢ ἄλλων τινῶν;
Socrates: Can you tell me, then, did Aegisthus, who killed Agamemnon in Argos, rule over these whom you mention, all the craftsmen, private citizens, men, and women, or some others?
ΘΕ. οὔκ, ἀλλὰ τούτων.
Theages: No, but over these.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ δή; Πηλεὺς ὁ Αἰακοῦ ἐν Φθίᾳ οὐ τῶν αὐτῶν τούτων ἦρχεν;
Socrates: And what of Peleus, the son of Aeacus? Did he not rule over these same people in Phthia?
ΘΕ. ναί.
Theages: Yes.
ΣΩ. Περίανδρον δὲ τὸν Κυψέλου ἄρχοντα ἐν Κορίνθῳ ἤδη ἀκήκοας γενέσθαι;
Socrates: And have you already heard that Periander, the son of Cypselus, became ruler in Corinth?
ΘΕ. ἔγωγε.
Theages: I have, indeed.
ΣΩ. οὐ τῶν αὐτῶν τούτων ἄρχοντα ἐν τῇ αὑτοῦ πόλει;
Socrates: Did he not rule over these same people in his own city?
ΘΕ. ναί.
Theages: Yes.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ Ἀρχέλαον τὸν Περδίκκου, τὸν νεωστὶ τοῦτον ἄρχοντα ἐν Μακεδονίᾳ;
Socrates: And what of Archelaus, the son of Perdiccas, who recently became ruler in Macedonia?
οὐ τῶν αὐτῶν ἡγῇ τούτων ἄρχειν;
Do you not think he rules over these same people?
ΘΕ. ἔγωγε.
Theages: I do, indeed.
ΣΩ. Ἱππίαν δὲ τὸν Πεισιστράτου ἐν τῇδε τῇ πόλει ἄρξαντα τίνων οἴει ἄρξαι;
Socrates: And Hippias, the son of Pisistratus, who ruled in this city—over whom do you think he ruled?
οὐ τούτων;
Was it not over these?
ΘΕ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Theages: How could it be otherwise?
ΣΩ. εἴποις ἂν οὖν μοι τίνα ἐπωνυμίαν ἔχει Βάκις τε καὶ Σίβυλλα καὶ ὁ ἡμεδαπὸς Ἀμφίλυτος;
Socrates: Could you tell me, then, what title Bacis, Sibyl, and our countryman Amphilytus hold?
ΘΕ. τίνα γὰρ ἄλλην, ὦ Σώκρατες, πλήν γε χρησμῳδοί;
Theages: What other title, Socrates, but prophets?
ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς λέγεις.
Socrates: You speak correctly.
ἀλλὰ καὶ τούσδε μοι οὕτω πειρῶ ἀποκρίνασθαι, τίνα ἐπωνυμίαν ἔχει Ἱππίας καὶ Περίανδρος διὰ τὴν αὐτὴν ἀρχήν;
But try to answer me likewise regarding these men: what title do Hippias and Periander hold because of the same rule?
ΘΕ. οἶμαι μὲν τύραννοι· τί γὰρ ἄλλο;
Theages: Tyrants, I think; what else?
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ὅστις ἐπιθυμεῖ τῶν ἀνθρώπων τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει συμπάντων ἄρχειν, τῆς αὐτῆς ἀρχῆς τούτοις ἐπιθυμεῖ, τυραννικῆς, καὶ τύραννος εἶναι;
Socrates: Then whoever desires to rule over all the human beings in the city, desires this same rule, a tyrannical one, and to be a tyrant?
ΘΕ. φαίνεται.
Theages: So it appears.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ταύτης ἐπιθυμεῖν σὺ φῄς;
Socrates: Is this, then, what you say you desire?
ΘΕ. ἔοικέν γε ἐξ ὧν ἐγὼ εἶπον.
Theages: It seems so from what I said.
§125ΣΩ. ὦ μιαρέ, τυραννεῖν ἄρα ἡμῶν ἐπιθυμῶν πάλαι ἐμέμφου τῷ πατρὶ ὅτι σε οὐκ ἔπεμπεν εἰς τυραννοδιδασκάλου τινός;
Socrates: You rogue! Desiring, then, to be a tyrant over us, you have been blaming your father for a long time because he would not send you to some teacher of tyranny?
καὶ σύ, ὦ Δημόδοκε, οὐκ αἰσχύνῃ πάλαι εἰδὼς οὗ ἐπιθυμεῖ οὗτος, καὶ ἔχων ὅθι πέμψας αὐτὸν δημιουργὸν ἂν ἐποίησας τῆς σοφίας ἧς ἐπιθυμεῖ, ἔπειτα φθονεῖς τε αὐτῷ καὶ οὐκ ἐθέλεις πέμπειν;
And you, Demodocus, are you not ashamed, knowing for a long time what this boy desires, and having the means to send him where you could have made him an expert in the wisdom he desires, yet you grudge it to him and refuse to send him?
ἀλλὰ νῦν—ὁρᾷς; — ἐπειδὴ ἐναντίον ἐμοῦ κατείρηκέ σου, κοινῇ βουλευώμεθα ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ ἐς τίνος ἂν αὐτὸν πέμποιμεν καὶ διὰ τὴν τίνος συνουσίαν σοφὸς ἂν γένοιτο τύραννος;
But now—you see? — since he has denounced you in my presence, let us consult together, you and I, to whom we might send him, and through whose association he might become a wise tyrant.
ΔΗ. ναὶ μὰ Δία, ὦ Σώκρατες, βουλευώμεθα δῆτα, ὡς δοκεῖ γέ μοι βουλῆς δεῖν περὶ τούτου οὐ φαύλης.
Demodocus: By Zeus, Socrates, let us indeed consult, for it seems to me that we need no ordinary consultation on this matter.
ΣΩ. ἔασον, ὠγαθέ.
Socrates: Hold on, my good man.
διαπυθώμεθα αὐτοῦ πρῶτον ἱκανῶς.
Let us first question him thoroughly.
ΔΗ. πυνθάνου δή.
Demodocus: Question him, then.
ΣΩ. τί οὖν ἂν εἰ Εὐριπίδῃ τι προσχρησαίμεθα, ὦ Θέαγες;
Socrates: What if we were to make some use of Euripides, Theages?
Εὐριπίδης γάρ πού φησιν—
"
σοφοὶ τύραννοι τῶν σοφῶν συνουσίᾳ· "
εἰ οὖν ἔροιτό τις τὸν Εὐριπίδην· ὦ Εὐριπίδη, τῶν τί σοφῶν συνουσίᾳ φῂς σοφοὺς εἶναι τοὺς τυράννους; ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ εἰπόντα—
"
σοφοὶ γεωργοὶ τῶν σοφῶν συνουσίᾳ,
"
ἠρόμεθα
τῶν τί σοφῶν; τί ἂν ἡμῖν ἀπεκρίνατο;
For Euripides says somewhere— "Wise are tyrants by association with the wise." If, then, someone were to ask Euripides: "Euripides, by association with those wise in what do you say tyrants are wise?" Just as if, had he said— "Wise are farmers by association with the wise," we had asked: "wise in what?" What would he have answered us?
ἆρʼ ἂν ἄλλο τι ἢ τῶν τὰ γεωργικά;
Would it be anything other than those wise in agricultural matters?
ΘΕ. οὔκ, ἀλλὰ τοῦτο.
Theages: No, but exactly that.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ εἰ εἶπε—
"
σοφοὶ μάγειροι τῶν σοφῶν συνουσίᾳ,
"
εἰ ἠρόμεθα· τῶν τί σοφῶν; τί ἂν ἡμῖν ἀπεκρίνατο;
Socrates: And what if he had said— "Wise are cooks by association with the wise," and we had asked: "wise in what?" What would he have answered us?
οὐχ ὅτι τῶν μαγείρων;
Would it not be those wise in cooking?
ΘΕ. ναί.
Theages: Yes.
ΣΩ. τί δʼ εἰ—
"
σοφοὶ παλαισταὶ τῶν σοφῶν συνουσίᾳ
"
εἶπεν, εἰ ἠρόμεθα· τῶν τί σοφῶν; ἆρα οὐκ ἂν τῶν παλαίειν ἔφη;
Socrates: And what if he had said— "Wise are wrestlers by association with the wise," and we had asked: "wise in what?" Would he not have said those wise in wrestling?
ΘΕ. ναί.
Theages: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἐπειδὴ δὲ εἶπε—
"
σοφοὶ τύραννοι τῶν σοφῶν συνουσίᾳ,
"
ἡμῶν ἐρωτώντων· τῶν τί σοφῶν λέγεις, ὦ Εὐριπίδη;
Socrates: But since he said— "Wise are tyrants by association with the wise," if we ask: "wise in what do you mean, Euripides?" what would he say?
τί ἂν φαίη; ποῖα ἂν εἶναι ταῦτα;
What would these things be?
ΘΕ. ἀλλὰ μὰ Δίʼ οὐκ οἶδʼ ἔγωγε.
Theages: By Zeus, I do not know, for my part.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ βούλει ἐγώ σοι εἴπω;
Socrates: But do you wish me to tell you?
ΘΕ. εἰ σὺ βούλει.
Theages: If you wish.
ΣΩ. ταῦτʼ ἐστὶν ἅπερ ἔφη Ἀνακρέων τὴν Καλλικρίτην ἐπίστασθαι· ἢ οὐκ οἶσθα τὸ ᾆσμα;
Socrates: These are the very things that Anacreon said Callicrite knows; or do you not know the song?
ΘΕ. ἔγωγε.
Theages: I do, indeed.
ΣΩ. τί οὖν;
Socrates: What then?
τοιαύτης τινὸς καὶ σὺ συνουσίας ἐπιθυμεῖς ἀνδρὸς ὅστις τυγχάνει ὁμότεχνος ὢν Καλλικρίτῃ τῇ Κυάνης καὶ
ἐπίσταται τυραννικά,
ὥσπερ ἐκείνην ἔφη ὁ ποιητής, ἵνα καὶ σὺ ἡμῖν τύραννος γένῃ καὶ τῇ πόλει;
Do you also desire the association of some such man who happens to share the same art as Callicrite, the daughter of Cyane, and knows tyrannical matters, as the poet said she did, so that you too may become a tyrant over us and the city?
ΘΕ. πάλαι, ὦ Σώκρατες, σκώπτεις καὶ παίζεις πρός με.
Theages: For a long time, Socrates, you have been mocking and playing with me.
ΣΩ. τί δέ;
Socrates: What?
οὐ ταύτης φῂς τῆς σοφίας ἐπιθυμεῖν ᾗ πάντων ἂν τῶν πολιτῶν ἄρχοις;
Do you not say that you desire that wisdom by which you would rule over all the citizens?
τοῦτο δὲ ποιῶν ἄλλο τι ἢ τύραννος ἂν εἴης;
And doing this, would you be anything other than a tyrant?