§125ΣΩ. καλοὺς δὲ κἀγαθοὺς λέγεις τοὺς φρονίμους ἢ τοὺς ἄφρονας;
SOCRATES: By "noble and good," do you mean the wise or the foolish?
ΑΛ. τοὺς φρονίμους.
ALCIBIADES: The wise.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ὃ ἕκαστος φρόνιμος, τοῦτʼ ἀγαθός;
SOCRATES: Therefore, in whatever each is wise, is he good in this?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. ὃ δὲ ἄφρων, πονηρός;
SOCRATES: And in whatever he is foolish, is he bad?
ΑΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ALCIBIADES: How could he not be?
ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν ὁ σκυτοτόμος φρόνιμος εἰς ὑποδημάτων ἐργασίαν;
SOCRATES: Is the shoemaker, then, wise in the making of shoes?
ΑΛ. πάνυ γε.
ALCIBIADES: Quite so.
ΣΩ. ἀγαθὸς ἄρʼ εἰς αὐτά;
SOCRATES: Then is he good in this?
ΑΛ. ἀγαθός.
ALCIBIADES: Good.
ΣΩ. τί δʼ;
SOCRATES: What then?
εἰς ἱματίων ἐργασίαν οὐκ ἄφρων ὁ σκυτοτόμος;
Is the shoemaker not foolish in the making of garments?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. κακὸς ἄρα εἰς τοῦτο;
SOCRATES: So is he bad in this?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. ὁ αὐτὸς ἄρα τούτῳ γε τῷ λόγῳ κακός τε καὶ ἀγαθός.
SOCRATES: So, by this argument at least, the same person is both bad and good.
ΑΛ. φαίνεται.
ALCIBIADES: So it seems.
ΣΩ. ἦ οὖν λέγεις τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς ἄνδρας εἶναι καὶ κακούς;
SOCRATES: Do you say, then, that good men are also bad?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ τίνας ποτὲ τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς λέγεις;
SOCRATES: But what kind of people do you say are the good?
ΑΛ. τοὺς δυναμένους ἔγωγε ἄρχειν ἐν τῇ πόλει.
ALCIBIADES: I mean those who are able to rule in the city.
ΣΩ. οὐ δήπου ἵππων γε;
SOCRATES: Not horses, surely?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ ἀνθρώπων;
SOCRATES: But humans?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἆρα καμνόντων;
SOCRATES: Is it those who are sick?
ΑΛ. οὔ.
ALCIBIADES: No.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ πλεόντων;
SOCRATES: But those who are sailing?
ΑΛ. οὔ φημι.
ALCIBIADES: I say not.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ θεριζόντων;
SOCRATES: But those who are harvesting?
ΑΛ. οὔ.
ALCIBIADES: No.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ οὐδὲν ποιούντων ἤ τι ποιούντων;
SOCRATES: But those who are doing nothing, or those who are doing something?
ΑΛ. ποιούντων λέγω.
ALCIBIADES: I mean those who are doing something.
ΣΩ. τί;
SOCRATES: Doing what?
πειρῶ καὶ ἐμοὶ δηλῶσαι.
Try to make it clear to me as well.
ΑΛ. οὐκοῦν τῶν καὶ συμβαλλόντων ἑαυτοῖς καὶ χρωμένων ἀλλήλοις, ὥσπερ ἡμεῖς ζῶμεν ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν.
ALCIBIADES: I mean those who both associate with one another and have dealings with one another, just as we live in our cities.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ἀνθρώπων λέγεις ἄρχειν ἀνθρώποις χρωμένων;
SOCRATES: Therefore, you mean ruling over humans who have dealings with humans?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἆρα κελευστῶν χρωμένων ἐρέταις;
SOCRATES: Do you mean boat commanders dealing with rowers?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. κυβερνητικὴ γὰρ αὕτη γε ἀρετή;
SOCRATES: For that is the virtue of the helmsman?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ ἀνθρώπων λέγεις ἄρχειν αὐλητῶν, ἀνθρώποις ἡγουμένων ᾠδῆς καὶ χρωμένων χορευταῖς;
SOCRATES: But do you mean ruling over flute players who lead people in song and deal with chorus dancers?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. χοροδιδασκαλικὴ γὰρ αὕτη γʼ αὖ;
SOCRATES: For that is again the virtue of chorus training?
ΑΛ. πάνυ γε.
ALCIBIADES: Quite so.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ τί ποτε λέγεις χρωμένων ἀνθρώπων ἀνθρώποις οἷόν τʼ εἶναι ἄρχειν;
SOCRATES: But what kind of ruling over people dealing with people do you say is possible?
ΑΛ. κοινωνούντων ἔγωγε λέγω πολιτείας καὶ συμβαλλόντων πρὸς ἀλλήλους, τούτων ἄρχειν τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει.
ALCIBIADES: I mean ruling over those in the city who share in a constitution and associate with one another.
ΣΩ. τίς οὖν αὕτη ἡ τέχνη;
SOCRATES: What, then, is this art?
ὥσπερ ἂν εἴ σε ἐροίμην πάλιν τὰ νυνδή, κοινωνούντων ναυτιλίας ἐπίστασθαι ἄρχειν τίς ποιεῖ τέχνη;
Just as if I should ask you again the question of a moment ago, what art makes one know how to rule over those who share in navigation?
ΑΛ. κυβερνητική.
ALCIBIADES: The art of the helmsman.
ΣΩ. κοινωνούντων δʼ ᾠδῆς, ὡς νυνδὴ ἐλέγετο, τις ἐπιστήμη ποιεῖ ἄρχειν;
SOCRATES: And what science makes one rule over those who share in song, as was just said?
ΑΛ. ἥνπερ σὺ ἄρτι ἔλεγες, ἡ χοροδιδασκαλία.
ALCIBIADES: The very one you just mentioned, chorus training.
ΣΩ. τί δέ;
SOCRATES: What then?
πολιτείας κοινωνούντων τίνα καλεῖς ἐπιστήμην;
What do you call the science of those who share in a constitution?
ΑΛ. εὐβουλίαν ἔγωγε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ALCIBIADES: I call it good counsel, Socrates.
ΣΩ. τί δέ;
SOCRATES: What then?
μῶν ἀβουλία δοκεῖ εἶναι ἡ τῶν κυβερνητῶν;
Does the science of helmsmen seem to be bad counsel?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ εὐβουλία;
SOCRATES: But good counsel?
§126ΑΛ. ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ, εἴς γε τὸ σῴζεσθαι πλέοντας.
ALCIBIADES: So it seems to me, at least for the preservation of those who sail.
ΣΩ. καλῶς λέγεις.
SOCRATES: You speak well.
τί δέ;
What then?
ἣν σὺ λέγεις εὐβουλίαν, εἰς τί ἐστιν;
The good counsel you speak of, what is it for?
ΑΛ. εἰς τὸ ἄμεινον τὴν πόλιν διοικεῖν καὶ σῴζεσθαι.
ALCIBIADES: For the better administration and preservation of the city.
ΣΩ. ἄμεινον δὲ διοικεῖται καὶ σῴζεται τίνος παραγιγνομένου ἢ ἀπογιγνομένου;
SOCRATES: And does it become better administered and preserved when what is present or what is absent?
ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ σύ με ἔροιο· ἄμεινον διοικεῖται σῶμα καὶ σῴζεται τίνος παραγιγνομένου ἢ ἀπογιγνομένου; εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὅτι ὑγιείας μὲν παραγιγνομένης, νόσου δὲ ἀπογιγνομένης.
Just as if you should ask me: "When what is present or what is absent is the body better administered and preserved?" I would say that it is when health is present and disease is absent.
οὐ καὶ σὺ οἴει οὕτως;
Do you not also think so?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. καὶ εἴ μʼ αὖ ἔροιο· τίνος δὲ παραγιγνομένου ἄμεινον ὄμματα; ὡσαύτως εἴποιμʼ ἂν ὅτι ὄψεως μὲν παραγιγνομένης, τυφλότητος δὲ ἀπογιγνομένης.
SOCRATES: And if you should ask me again: "When what is present do the eyes become better?" Likewise I would say that it is when sight is present and blindness is absent.
καὶ ὦτα δὲ κωφότητος μὲν ἀπογιγνομένης, ἀκοῆς δὲ ἐγγιγνομένης βελτίω τε γίγνεται καὶ ἄμεινον θεραπεύεται.
And the ears, too, when deafness is absent and hearing is engendered in them, become better and are better cared for.
ΑΛ. ὀρθῶς.
ALCIBIADES: Correct.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ δή;
SOCRATES: What then?
πόλις τίνος παραγιγνομένου καὶ ἀπογιγνομένου βελτίων τε γίγνεται καὶ ἄμεινον θεραπεύεται καὶ διοικεῖται;
When what is present and what is absent does a city become better, and is better cared for and administered?
ΑΛ. ἐμοὶ μὲν δοκεῖ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅταν φιλία μὲν αὐτοῖς γίγνηται πρὸς ἀλλήλους, τὸ μισεῖν δὲ καὶ στασιάζειν ἀπογίγνηται.
ALCIBIADES: It seems to me, Socrates, when friendship is engendered among them toward one another, and hating and factional strife are absent.
ΣΩ. ἆρʼ οὖν φιλίαν λέγεις ὁμόνοιαν ἢ διχόνοιαν;
SOCRATES: By friendship, then, do you mean agreement or disagreement?
ΑΛ. ὁμόνοιαν.
ALCIBIADES: Agreement.
ΣΩ. διὰ τίνʼ οὖν τέχνην ὁμονοοῦσιν αἱ πόλεις περὶ ἀριθμούς;
SOCRATES: Through what art, then, do cities agree about numbers?
ΑΛ. διὰ τὴν ἀριθμητικήν.
ALCIBIADES: Through arithmetic.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ οἱ ἰδιῶται;
SOCRATES: And what about individuals?
οὐ διὰ τὴν αὐτήν;
Is it not through the same?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν καὶ αὐτὸς αὑτῷ ἕκαστος;
SOCRATES: And each indeed with himself?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. διὰ τίνα δὲ τέχνην ἕκαστος αὐτὸς αὑτῷ ὁμονοεῖ περὶ σπιθαμῆς καὶ πήχεος ὁπότερον μεῖζον;
SOCRATES: Through what art, then, does each agree with himself as to which is larger, a span or a cubit?
οὐ διὰ τὴν μετρητικήν;
Is it not through the art of measurement?
ΑΛ. τί μήν;
ALCIBIADES: How not?
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν καὶ οἱ ἰδιῶται ἀλλήλοις καὶ αἱ πόλεις;
SOCRATES: And individuals with one another, and cities?
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.
ΣΩ. τί δέ;
SOCRATES: What then?
περὶ σταθμοῦ οὐχ ὡσαύτως;
Is it not likewise about weight?
ΑΛ. φημί.
ALCIBIADES: I say so.
ΣΩ. ἣν δὲ δὴ σὺ λέγεις ὁμόνοιαν, τίς ἐστι καὶ περὶ τοῦ, καὶ τίς αὐτὴν τέχνη παρασκευάζει;
SOCRATES: And this agreement which you speak of, what is it and about what, and what art produces it?
καὶ ἆρα ἥπερ πόλει, αὑτὴ καὶ ἰδιώτῃ, αὐτῷ τε πρὸς αὑτὸν καὶ πρὸς ἄλλον;
And is it indeed the very same for a city and for an individual, both toward himself and toward another?
ΑΛ. εἰκός γέ τοι.
ALCIBIADES: It is likely, at least.
ΣΩ. τίς οὖν ἔστι;
SOCRATES: What then is it?
μὴ κάμῃς ἀποκρινόμενος, ἀλλὰ προθυμοῦ εἰπεῖν.
Do not grow weary of answering, but be eager to speak.
ΑΛ. ἐγὼ μὲν οἶμαι φιλίαν τε λέγειν καὶ ὁμόνοιαν, ἥνπερ πατήρ τε ὑὸν φιλῶν ὁμονοεῖ καὶ μήτηρ, καὶ ἀδελφὸς ἀδελφῷ καὶ γυνὴ ἀνδρί.
ALCIBIADES: I think indeed that I mean both the friendship and agreement by which a father agrees in loving his son, and a mother likewise, and a brother with his brother, and a wife with her husband.
ΣΩ. οἴει ἂν οὖν, ὦ Ἀλκιβιάδη, ἄνδρα γυναικὶ περὶ ταλασιουργίας δύνασθαι ὁμονοεῖν, τὸν μὴ ἐπιστάμενον τῇ ἐπισταμένῃ;
SOCRATES: Do you think then, Alcibiades, that a husband can agree with his wife about woolworking, if he does not know it, with her who knows it?
ΑΛ. οὐ δῆτα.
ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.
ΣΩ. οὐδέ γε δεῖ οὐδέν· γυναικεῖον γὰρ τοῦτό γε μάθημα.
SOCRATES: Nor indeed is there any need; for this is a woman's study.
ΑΛ. ναί.
ALCIBIADES: Yes.