§264ΦΑΙ.
περὶ μὲν τῶν ἐμῶν πραγμάτων ἐπίστασαι, καὶ ὡς νομίζω συμφέρειν ἡμῖν τούτων γενομένων, ἀκήκοας.
PHAEDRUS: "Concerning my affairs you understand, and you have heard how I think it is advantageous for us if these things come about.
ἀξιῶ δὲ μὴ διὰ τοῦτο ἀτυχῆσαι ὧν δέομαι, ὅτι οὐκ ἐραστὴς ὢν σοῦ τυγχάνω.
And I claim that I should not fail to get what I ask for this reason, that I happen not to be a lover of yours.
ὡς ἐκείνοις μὲν τότε μεταμέλει ὧν ἂν εὖ ποιήσωσιν, ἐπειδὰν τῆς ἐπιθυμίας παύσωνται· —
ΣΩ. ἦ πολλοῦ δεῖν ἔοικε ποιεῖν ὅδε γε ὃ ζητοῦμεν, ὃς οὐδὲ ἀπʼ ἀρχῆς ἀλλʼ ἀπὸ τελευτῆς ἐξ ὑπτίας ἀνάπαλιν διανεῖν ἐπιχειρεῖ τὸν λόγον, καὶ ἄρχεται ἀφʼ ὧν πεπαυμένος ἂν ἤδη ὁ ἐραστὴς λέγοι πρὸς τὰ παιδικά.
For to those, on the one hand, there is regret then for the things they have done well, whenever they cease from their desire —" SOCRATES: Indeed, this man seems to be very far from doing what we seek, since he attempts to swim through his speech backward on his back, not from the beginning but from the end, and starts from what the lover would say to his beloved only after he had already ceased loving.
ἢ οὐδὲν εἶπον, Φαῖδρε, φίλη κεφαλή;
Or did I say nothing, Phaedrus, dear head?
ΦΑΙ. ἔστιν γέ τοι δή, ὦ Σώκρατες, τελευτή, περὶ οὗ τὸν λόγον ποιεῖται.
PHAEDRUS: To be sure, Socrates, that about which he makes his speech is indeed an end.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ τἆλλα;
SOCRATES: And what about the rest?
οὐ χύδην δοκεῖ βεβλῆσθαι τὰ τοῦ λόγου;
Do not the parts of the speech seem to be thrown together at random?
ἢ φαίνεται τὸ δεύτερον εἰρημένον ἔκ τινος ἀνάγκης δεύτερον δεῖν τεθῆναι, ἤ τι ἄλλο τῶν ῥηθέντων;
Or does it appear that what is said second had to be placed second out of some necessity, or any other of the things spoken?
ἐμοὶ μὲν γὰρ ἔδοξεν, ὡς μηδὲν εἰδότι, οὐκ ἀγεννῶς τὸ ἐπιὸν εἰρῆσθαι τῷ γράφοντι· σὺ δʼ ἔχεις τινὰ ἀνάγκην λογογραφικὴν ᾗ ταῦτα ἐκεῖνος οὕτως ἐφεξῆς παρʼ ἄλληλα ἔθηκεν;
For to me, who know nothing, it seemed that the writer stated what came into his mind not without spirit; but do you have some speech-writing necessity by which he placed these things next to one another in such sequence?
ΦΑΙ. χρηστὸς εἶ, ὅτι με ἡγῇ ἱκανὸν εἶναι τὰ ἐκείνου οὕτως ἀκριβῶς διιδεῖν.
PHAEDRUS: You are very kind to think me capable of examining his writings so accurately.
ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ τόδε γε οἶμαί σε φάναι ἄν, δεῖν πάντα λόγον ὥσπερ ζῷον συνεστάναι σῶμά τι ἔχοντα αὐτὸν αὑτοῦ, ὥστε μήτε ἀκέφαλον εἶναι μήτε ἄπουν, ἀλλὰ μέσα τε ἔχειν καὶ ἄκρα, πρέποντα ἀλλήλοις καὶ τῷ ὅλῳ γεγραμμένα.
SOCRATES: But this, at least, I think you would say: that every speech must be composed like a living being, having a body of its own, so as to be neither headless nor footless, but to have middle parts and extremities, written so as to suit one another and the whole.
ΦΑΙ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
PHAEDRUS: How could it not be so?
ΣΩ. σκέψαι τοίνυν τὸν τοῦ ἑταίρου σου λόγον εἴτε οὕτως εἴτε ἄλλως ἔχει, καὶ εὑρήσεις τοῦ ἐπιγράμματος οὐδὲν διαφέροντα, ὃ Μίδᾳ τῷ Φρυγί φασίν τινες ἐπιγεγράφθαι.
SOCRATES: Examine then the speech of your companion, whether it is in this way or otherwise, and you will find that it differs in no way from the epigram which some say is inscribed for Midas the Phrygian.
ΦΑΙ. ποῖον τοῦτο, καὶ τί πεπονθός;
PHAEDRUS: What kind of epigram is this, and what is the matter with it?
ΣΩ. ἔστι μὲν τοῦτο τόδε—
"
χαλκῆ παρθένος εἰμί, Μίδα δʼ ἐπὶ σήματι κεῖμαι.
SOCRATES: It is indeed this: "A bronze maiden am I, and on Midas' tomb I lie.
ὄφρʼ ἂν ὕδωρ τε νάῃ καὶ δένδρεα μακρὰ τεθήλῃ,
αὐτοῦ τῇδε μένουσα πολυκλαύτου ἐπὶ τύμβου,
ἀγγελέω παριοῦσι Μίδας ὅτι τῇδε τέθαπται. "
ὅτι δʼ οὐδὲν διαφέρει αὐτοῦ πρῶτον ἢ ὕστατόν τι λέγεσθαι, ἐννοεῖς που, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι.
As long as water flows and tall trees grow green, Remaining here on this much-lamented tomb, I shall announce to those passing by that Midas is buried here." That it makes no difference whether any part of it is said first or last, you perceive, I think.
ΦΑΙ. σκώπτεις τὸν λόγον ἡμῶν, ὦ Σώκρατες.
PHAEDRUS: You are making fun of our speech, Socrates.
ΣΩ. τοῦτον μὲν τοίνυν, ἵνα μὴ σὺ ἄχθῃ, ἐάσωμεν— καίτοι συχνά γε ἔχειν μοι δοκεῖ παραδείγματα πρὸς ἅ τις βλέπων ὀνίναιτʼ ἄν, μιμεῖσθαι αὐτὰ ἐπιχειρῶν μὴ πάνυ τι— εἰς δὲ τοὺς ἑτέρους λόγους ἴωμεν.
SOCRATES: Let us, then, leave this speech, so that you may not be vexed—although it seems to me to contain plenty of examples by looking at which one might benefit, provided one does not try at all to imitate them—and let us go on to the other speeches.
ἦν γάρ τι ἐν αὐτοῖς, ὡς δοκῶ, προσῆκον ἰδεῖν τοῖς βουλομένοις περὶ λόγων σκοπεῖν.
For there was in them, as I think, something appropriate to examine for those who wish to consider speeches.
§265ΦΑΙ. τὸ ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;
PHAEDRUS: What kind of thing indeed do you mean?
ΣΩ. ἐναντίω που ἤστην· ὁ μὲν γὰρ ὡς τῷ ἐρῶντι, ὁ δʼ ὡς τῷ μὴ δεῖ χαρίζεσθαι, ἐλεγέτην.
SOCRATES: They were, I suppose, opposite to each other; for the one said that favor should be given to the lover, and the other to the non-lover.
ΦΑΙ. καὶ μάλʼ ἀνδρικῶς.
PHAEDRUS: And very vigorously indeed.
ΣΩ. ὤιμην σε τἀληθὲς ἐρεῖν, ὅτι μανικῶς· ὃ μέντοι ἐζήτουν ἐστὶν αὐτὸ τοῦτο.
SOCRATES: I thought you were going to say the truth, namely 'madly'; however, what I was seeking is this very thing.
μανίαν γάρ τινα ἐφήσαμεν εἶναι τὸν ἔρωτα.
For we said that love is a certain madness.
ἦ γάρ;
Is it not so?
ΦΑΙ. ναί.
PHAEDRUS: Yes.
ΣΩ. μανίας δέ γε εἴδη δύο, τὴν μὲν ὑπὸ νοσημάτων ἀνθρωπίνων, τὴν δὲ ὑπὸ θείας ἐξαλλαγῆς τῶν εἰωθότων νομίμων γιγνομένην.
SOCRATES: And there are two kinds of madness, one arising from human diseases, the other from a divine release from customary conventions.
ΦΑΙ. πάνυ γε.
PHAEDRUS: Certainly.
ΣΩ. τῆς δὲ θείας τεττάρων θεῶν τέτταρα μέρη διελόμενοι, μαντικὴν μὲν ἐπίπνοιαν Ἀπόλλωνος θέντες, Διονύσου δὲ τελεστικήν, Μουσῶν δʼ αὖ ποιητικήν, τετάρτην δὲ ἀφροδίτης καὶ Ἔρωτος, ἐρωτικὴν μανίαν ἐφήσαμέν τε ἀρίστην εἶναι, καὶ οὐκ οἶδʼ ὅπῃ τὸ ἐρωτικὸν πάθος ἀπεικάζοντες, ἴσως μὲν ἀληθοῦς τινος ἐφαπτόμενοι, τάχα δʼ ἂν καὶ ἄλλοσε παραφερόμενοι, κεράσαντες οὐ παντάπασιν ἀπίθανον λόγον, μυθικόν τινα ὕμνον προσεπαίσαμεν μετρίως τε καὶ εὐφήμως τὸν ἐμόν τε καὶ σὸν δεσπότην ἔρωτα, ὦ Φαῖδρε, καλῶν παίδων ἔφορον.
SOCRATES: And having divided the divine madness into four parts belonging to four gods—attributing prophetic inspiration to Apollo, mystic initiation to Dionysus, and again poetic madness to the Muses, and the fourth to Aphrodite and Eros, we said that the madness of love is the best, and, in some way portraying the passion of love, perhaps touching upon some truth, and fast-drifting maybe also in another direction, blending a not altogether unconvincing speech, we sang a playful, mythical hymn in a moderate and auspicious way to honor your master and mine, Phaedrus—namely Eros, the guardian of beautiful boys.
ΦΑΙ. καὶ μάλα ἔμοιγε οὐκ ἀηδῶς ἀκοῦσαι.
PHAEDRUS: And indeed, it was not at all unpleasant for me to hear.
ΣΩ. τόδε τοίνυν αὐτόθεν λάβωμεν, ὡς ἀπὸ τοῦ ψέγειν πρὸς τὸ ἐπαινεῖν ἔσχεν ὁ λόγος μεταβῆναι.
SOCRATES: Let us, then, grasp this from the matter itself: how the speech was able to shift from blaming to praising.
ΦΑΙ. πῶς δὴ οὖν αὐτὸ λέγεις;
PHAEDRUS: How indeed do you mean this?
ΣΩ. ἐμοὶ μὲν φαίνεται τὰ μὲν ἄλλα τῷ ὄντι παιδιᾷ πεπαῖσθαι· τούτων δέ τινων ἐκ τύχης ῥηθέντων δυοῖν εἰδοῖν, εἰ αὐτοῖν τὴν δύναμιν τέχνῃ λαβεῖν δύναιτό τις, οὐκ ἄχαρι.
SOCRATES: To me indeed, the other parts seem to have been played in real play; but of certain things spoken by chance, if one could grasp by art the power of two classes, it would not be without grace.
ΦΑΙ. τίνων δή;
PHAEDRUS: What are they indeed?
ΣΩ. εἰς μίαν τε ἰδέαν συνορῶντα ἄγειν τὰ πολλαχῇ διεσπαρμένα, ἵνα ἕκαστον ὁριζόμενος δῆλον ποιῇ περὶ οὗ ἂν ἀεὶ διδάσκειν ἐθέλῃ.
SOCRATES: One is to bring together things scattered in many places, looking at them as one idea, so that by defining each, one makes clear whatever one wishes to teach on each occasion.
ὥσπερ τὰ νυνδὴ περὶ Ἔρωτος—ὃ ἔστιν ὁρισθέν—εἴτʼ εὖ εἴτε κακῶς ἐλέχθη, τὸ γοῦν σαφὲς καὶ τὸ αὐτὸ αὑτῷ ὁμολογούμενον διὰ ταῦτα ἔσχεν εἰπεῖν ὁ λόγος.
Just as what was said just now about Love—which, having been defined, whether well or badly—at any rate, because of this, the speech was able to state it with clarity and internal consistency.
ΦΑΙ. τὸ δʼ ἕτερον δὴ εἶδος τί λέγεις, ὦ Σώκρατες;
PHAEDRUS: And what indeed do you say the other class is, Socrates?