§239ΣΩ. οὔτε δὴ κρείττω οὔτε ἰσούμενον ἑκὼν ἐραστὴς παιδικὰ ἀνέξεται, ἥττω δὲ καὶ ὑποδεέστερον ἀεὶ ἀπεργάζεται·
SOCRATES: Now, a lover will not willingly tolerate his beloved being superior or equal to himself, but always makes him inferior and second-rate.
ἥττων δὲ ἀμαθὴς σοφοῦ, δειλὸς ἀνδρείου, ἀδύνατος εἰπεῖν ῥητορικοῦ, βραδὺς ἀγχίνου.
And an inferior person is ignorant compared to the wise, cowardly compared to the brave, unable to speak compared to the rhetorical, and slow compared to the quick-witted.
τοσούτων κακῶν καὶ ἔτι πλειόνων κατὰ τὴν διάνοιαν ἐραστὴν ἐρωμένῳ ἀνάγκη γιγνομένων τε καὶ φύσει ἐνόντων μὲν ἥδεσθαι, τὰ δὲ παρασκευάζειν, ἢ στέρεσθαι τοῦ παραυτίκα ἡδέος.
With so many mental evils, and even more, naturally occurring or arising in the beloved, the lover must of necessity be pleased with some and produce others, or else be deprived of his immediate pleasure.
εἶναι, καὶ πολλῶν μὲν ἄλλων συνουσιῶν ἀπείργοντα καὶ ὠφελίμων ὅθεν ἂν μάλιστʼ ἀνὴρ γίγνοιτο, μεγάλης αἴτιον εἶναι βλάβης, μεγίστης δὲ τῆς ὅθεν ἂν φρονιμώτατος εἴη.
And by keeping him from many other useful associations from which a man would especially grow, he is the cause of great harm, and greatest of all from that which would make him wisest.
τοῦτο δὲ ἡ θεία φιλοσοφία τυγχάνει ὄν, ἧς ἐραστὴν παιδικὰ ἀνάγκη πόρρωθεν εἴργειν, περίφοβον ὄντα τοῦ καταφρονηθῆναι· τά τε ἄλλα μηχανᾶσθαι ὅπως ἂν ᾖ πάντα ἀγνοῶν καὶ πάντα ἀποβλέπων εἰς τὸν ἐραστήν, οἷος ὢν τῷ μὲν ἥδιστος, ἑαυτῷ δὲ βλαβερώτατος ἂν εἴη.
Now, this happens to be divine philosophy, from which a lover must of necessity keep his beloved far away, being terrified of being looked down upon; and he must contrive other means so that the boy may be ignorant of everything and look only to the lover, in which state he would be most pleasant to him, but most harmful to himself.
τὰ μὲν οὖν κατὰ διάνοιαν ἐπίτροπός τε καὶ κοινωνὸς οὐδαμῇ λυσιτελὴς ἀνὴρ ἔχων ἔρωτα.
In what concerns the mind, then, a man who has love is in no way a profitable guardian or companion.
τὴν δὲ τοῦ σώματος ἕξιν τε καὶ θεραπείαν οἵαν τε καὶ ὡς θεραπεύσει οὗ ἂν γένηται κύριος, ὃς ἡδὺ πρὸ ἀγαθοῦ ἠνάγκασται διώκειν, δεῖ μετὰ ταῦτα ἰδεῖν.
Next after this, we must see what sort of bodily condition and care he will provide, and how he will care for the one over whom he has become master, he who is forced to pursue pleasure instead of the good.
ὀφθήσεται δὴ μαλθακόν τινα καὶ οὐ στερεὸν διώκων, οὐδʼ ἐν ἡλίῳ καθαρῷ τεθραμμένον ἀλλὰ ὑπὸ συμμιγεῖ σκιᾷ, πόνων μὲν ἀνδρείων καὶ ἱδρώτων ξηρῶν ἄπειρον, ἔμπειρον δὲ ἁπαλῆς καὶ ἀνάνδρου διαίτης, ἀλλοτρίοις χρώμασι καὶ κόσμοις χήτει οἰκείων κοσμούμενον, ὅσα τε ἄλλα τούτοις ἕπεται πάντα ἐπιτηδεύοντα, ἃ δῆλα καὶ οὐκ ἄξιον περαιτέρω προβαίνειν, ἀλλὰ ἓν κεφάλαιον ὁρισαμένους ἐπʼ ἄλλο ἰέναι· τὸ γὰρ τοιοῦτον σῶμα ἐν πολέμῳ τε καὶ ἄλλαις χρείαις ὅσαι μεγάλαι οἱ μὲν ἐχθροὶ θαρροῦσιν, οἱ δὲ φίλοι καὶ αὐτοὶ οἱ ἐρασταὶ φοβοῦνται.
He will indeed be seen pursuing someone soft and not robust, not reared in pure sunlight but under mixed shade, ignorant of manly labors and dry sweats, but experienced in a delicate and unmanly way of life, adorned with foreign colors and ornaments through lack of his own, and practicing all other things that follow upon these, which are clear and not worth proceeding further, but we should define one main point and go to another: for such a body in war and other great emergencies makes enemies bold, while friends and the lovers themselves are afraid.
τοῦτο μὲν οὖν ὡς δῆλον ἐατέον, τὸ δʼ ἐφεξῆς ῥητέον, τίνα ἡμῖν ὠφελίαν ἢ τίνα βλάβην περὶ τὴν κτῆσιν ἡ τοῦ ἐρῶντος ὁμιλία τε καὶ ἐπιτροπεία παρέξεται.
This, then, must be let go as obvious, and we must speak of what follows next, what benefit or what harm in regard to possession the companionship and guardianship of the lover will provide for us.
§240ΣΩ. σαφὲς δὴ τοῦτό γε παντὶ μέν, μάλιστα δὲ τῷ ἐραστῇ, ὅτι τῶν φιλτάτων τε καὶ εὐνουστάτων καὶ θειοτάτων κτημάτων ὀρφανὸν πρὸ παντὸς εὔξαιτʼ ἂν εἶναι τὸν ἐρώμενον· πατρὸς γὰρ καὶ μητρὸς καὶ συγγενῶν καὶ φίλων στέρεσθαι ἂν αὐτὸν δέξαιτο, διακωλυτὰς καὶ ἐπιτιμητὰς ἡγούμενος τῆς ἡδίστης πρὸς αὐτὸν ὁμιλίας.
SOCRATES: Now this is clear to everyone, but especially to the lover, that he would pray above all that his beloved be deprived of his dearest, most well-disposed, and most divine possessions; for he would welcome his being deprived of father, mother, relatives, and friends, regarding them as hinderers and critics of the most pleasant companionship with him.
ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐσίαν γʼ ἔχοντα χρυσοῦ ἤ τινος ἄλλης κτήσεως οὔτε εὐάλωτον ὁμοίως οὔτε ἁλόντα εὐμεταχείριστον ἡγήσεται· ἐξ ὧν πᾶσα ἀνάγκη ἐραστὴν παιδικοῖς φθονεῖν μὲν οὐσίαν κεκτημένοις, ἀπολλυμένης δὲ χαίρειν.
Furthermore, if he possesses property of gold or some other possession, the lover will not think him as easy to capture, nor when captured, easy to manage; from which it is absolutely necessary for a lover to envy his beloved when they possess property, and to rejoice when it is lost.
ἔτι τοίνυν ἄγαμον, ἄπαιδα, ἄοικον ὅτι πλεῖστον χρόνον παιδικὰ ἐραστὴς εὔξαιτʼ ἂν γενέσθαι, τὸ αὑτοῦ γλυκὺ ὡς πλεῖστον χρόνον καρποῦσθαι ἐπιθυμῶν.
Still further, a lover would pray that his beloved remain unmarried, childless, and homeless for as long a time as possible, desiring to enjoy his own sweet fruit for the longest time.
ἔστι μὲν δὴ καὶ ἄλλα κακά, ἀλλά τις δαίμων ἔμειξε τοῖς πλείστοις ἐν τῷ παραυτίκα ἡδονήν, οἷον κόλακι, δεινῷ θηρίῳ καὶ βλάβῃ μεγάλῃ, ὅμως ἐπέμειξεν ἡ φύσις ἡδονήν τινα οὐκ ἄμουσον, καί τις ἑταίραν ὡς βλαβερὸν ψέξειεν ἄν, καὶ ἄλλα πολλὰ τῶν τοιουτοτρόπων θρεμμάτων τε καὶ ἐπιτηδευμάτων, οἷς τό γε καθʼ ἡμέραν ἡδίστοισιν εἶναι ὑπάρχει· παιδικοῖς δὲ ἐραστὴς πρὸς τῷ βλαβερῷ καὶ εἰς τὸ συνημερεύειν πάντων ἀηδέστατον.
There are indeed other evils, but some deity has mixed pleasure with most of them for the immediate moment; for example, in a flatterer, a dreadful beast and a great harm, nevertheless nature has mixed a certain pleasure not unrefined, and one might blame a courtesan as harmful, and many other such creatures and practices, which have it in them to be most pleasant for daily life; but to his beloved, a lover, in addition to being harmful, is also the most unpleasant of all for daily companionship.
ἥλικα γὰρ δὴ καὶ ὁ παλαιὸς λόγος τέρπειν τὸν ἥλικα—ἡ γὰρ οἶμαι χρόνου ἰσότης ἐπʼ ἴσας ἡδονὰς ἄγουσα διʼ ὁμοιότητα φιλίαν παρέχεται—ἀλλʼ ὅμως κόρον γε καὶ ἡ τούτων συνουσία ἔχει. καὶ μὴν τό γε ἀναγκαῖον αὖ βαρὺ παντὶ περὶ πᾶν λέγεται· ὃ δὴ πρὸς τῇ ἀνομοιότητι μάλιστα ἐραστὴς πρὸς παιδικὰ ἔχει. νεωτέρῳ γὰρ πρεσβύτερος συνὼν οὔθʼ ἡμέρας οὔτε νυκτὸς ἑκὼν ἀπολείπεται, ἀλλʼ ὑπʼ ἀνάγκης τε καὶ οἴστρου ἐλαύνεται, ὃς ἐκείνῳ μὲν ἡδονὰς ἀεὶ διδοὺς ἄγει, ὁρῶντι, ἀκούοντι, ἁπτομένῳ, καὶ πᾶσαν αἴσθησιν αἰσθανομένῳ τοῦ ἐρωμένου, ὥστε μεθʼ ἡδονῆς ἀραρότως αὐτῷ ὑπηρετεῖν· τῷ δὲ δὴ ἐρωμένῳ ποῖον παραμύθιον ἢ τίνας ἡδονὰς διδοὺς ποιήσει τὸν ἴσον χρόνον συνόντα μὴ οὐχὶ ἐπʼ ἔσχατον ἐλθεῖν ἀηδίας—ὁρῶντι μὲν ὄψιν πρεσβυτέραν καὶ οὐκ ἐν ὥρᾳ, ἑπομένων δὲ τῶν ἄλλων ταύτῃ, ἃ καὶ λόγῳ ἐστὶν ἀκούειν οὐκ ἐπιτερπές, μὴ ὅτι δὴ ἔργῳ ἀνάγκης ἀεὶ προσκειμένης μεταχειρίζεσθαι, φυλακάς τε δὴ καχυποτόπους φυλαττομένῳ διὰ παντὸς καὶ πρὸς ἅπαντας, ἀκαίρους τε ἐπαίνους καὶ ὑπερβάλλοντας ἀκούοντι, ὡς δʼ αὕτως ψόγους νήφοντος μὲν οὐκ ἀνεκτούς, εἰς δὲ μέθην ἰόντος πρὸς τῷ μὴ ἀνεκτῷ ἐπαισχεῖς, παρρησίᾳ κατακορεῖ καὶ ἀναπεπταμένῃ χρωμένου;
For 'equals delight in equals,' as the old proverb says—for equality of age, I think, leading to equal pleasures, produces friendship through similarity—but nevertheless, even their companionship brings satiety. And indeed, what is forced is said to be a heavy burden to everyone in everything; and this force, in addition to the disparity of age, the lover especially exerts upon his beloved. For an older man, associating with a younger, does not willingly leave him either by day or by night, but is driven by necessity and a sting, which always leads him on by giving him pleasures when he sees, hears, touches, and perceives the beloved with every sense, so that he serves him with pleasure and devotion. But to the beloved, what consolation or what pleasures can he give to make him spend the same amount of time with him without reaching the extreme of disgust? He sees a face that is older and past its prime, with all the other consequences that follow, which are unpleasant even to hear spoken of, let alone to have to deal with in actual practice under constant necessity; and he must keep suspicious watch at all times and against everyone, and listen to untimely and excessive praises, and likewise to reproaches which are intolerable when the lover is sober, and not only intolerable but shameful when he is drunk, since he uses a frankness that is wearisome and unrestrained.