§307ΞΕ. τί δέ;
STRANGER: And what about this?
τὸ τῆς ἠρεμαίας αὖ γενέσεως εἶδος ἆρʼ οὐ πολλάκις ἐπῃνέκαμεν ἐν πολλαῖς τῶν πράξεων;
Have we not also often praised the class of quiet generation in many of our actions?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ σφόδρα γε.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Very much so indeed.
ΞΕ. μῶν οὖν οὐ τἀναντία λέγοντες ἢ περὶ ἐκείνων τοῦτο φθεγγόμεθα;
STRANGER: Are we not then uttering this by saying the opposite of what we said about those things?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How?
ΞΕ. ὡς ἡσυχαῖά πού φαμεν ἑκάστοτε καὶ σωφρονικά, περί τε διάνοιαν πραττόμενα ἀγασθέντες καὶ κατὰ τὰς πράξεις αὖ βραδέα καὶ μαλακά, καὶ ἔτι περὶ φωνὰς γιγνόμενα λεῖα καὶ βαρέα, καὶ πᾶσαν ῥυθμικὴν κίνησιν καὶ ὅλην μοῦσαν ἐν καιρῷ βραδυτῆτι προσχρωμένην, οὐ τὸ τῆς ἀνδρείας ἀλλὰ τὸ τῆς κοσμιότητος ὄνομα ἐπιφέρομεν αὐτοῖς σύμπασιν.
STRANGER: In that we say "quiet" and "temperate" on each occasion, when we admire things done in respect of intellect, and again in actions what is slow and gentle, and further in voices what is smooth and deep, and all rhythmic movement and the whole music using slowness at the opportune time, we apply to all of them together not the name of courage, but that of decorum.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀληθέστατα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν ὁπόταν αὖ γε ἀμφότερα γίγνηται ταῦθʼ ἡμῖν ἄκαιρα, μεταβάλλοντες ἑκάτερα αὐτῶν ψέγομεν ἐπὶ τἀναντία πάλιν ἀπονέμοντες τοῖς ὀνόμασιν.
STRANGER: And indeed, whenever both of these in turn become inopportune for us, changing our tune we blame each of them, assigning them back to the opposite names.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How?
ΞΕ. ὀξύτερα μὲν αὐτὰ γιγνόμενα τοῦ καιροῦ καὶ θάττω καὶ σκληρότερα φαινόμενα ὑβριστικὰ καὶ μανικὰ λέγοντες, τὰ δὲ βαρύτερα καὶ βραδύτερα καὶ μαλακώτερα δειλὰ καὶ βλακικά· καὶ σχεδὸν ὡς τὸ πολὺ ταῦτά τε καὶ τὴν σώφρονα φύσιν καὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν τὴν τῶν ἐναντίων, οἷον πολεμίαν διαλαχούσας στάσιν ἰδέας, οὔτʼ ἀλλήλαις μειγνυμένας ἐφευρίσκομεν ἐν ταῖς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πράξεσιν, ἔτι τε τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ψυχαῖς αὐτὰς ἴσχοντας διαφερομένους ἀλλήλοις ὀψόμεθα ἐὰν μεταδιώκωμεν.
STRANGER: By calling them, when they become sharper than opportune and quicker, and appear harsher, "insolent" and "manic," and on the other hand, those that are heavier, slower, and gentler, "cowardly" and "sluggish"; and generally, for the most part, we find that both these, i.e. the temperate nature and the courage of the opposites, having as it were received by lot a hostile faction of opposing ideas, do not mix with one another in actions concerning such things, and further, we shall see those who possess them in their souls disagreeing with one another if we pursue the matter.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποῦ δὴ λέγεις;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Where indeed do you mean?
ΞΕ. ἐν πᾶσί τε δὴ τούτοις οἷς νῦν εἴπομεν, ὡς εἰκός τε ἐν ἑτέροις πολλοῖς.
STRANGER: In all of these which we have just mentioned, and likely in many others.
κατὰ γὰρ οἶμαι τὴν αὑτῶν ἑκατέροις συγγένειαν τὰ μὲν ἐπαινοῦντες ὡς οἰκεῖα σφέτερα, τὰ δὲ τῶν διαφόρων ψέγοντες ὡς ἀλλότρια, πολλὴν εἰς ἔχθραν ἀλλήλοις καὶ πολλῶν πέρι καθίστανται.
For, I think, according to their own kinship to each of the two, praising some things as their own and blaming the things of the different ones as foreign, they are drawn into great hostility toward one another and concerning many things.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κινδυνεύουσιν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: They are likely to.
ΞΕ. παιδιὰ τοίνυν αὕτη γέ τις ἡ διαφορὰ τούτων ἐστὶ τῶν εἰδῶν· περὶ δὲ τὰ μέγιστα νόσος συμβαίνει πασῶν ἐχθίστη γίγνεσθαι ταῖς πόλεσιν.
STRANGER: This difference between these classes is, then, a sort of play; but in the greatest matters, it happens to become the most hostile sickness of all for the cities.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. περὶ δὴ ποῖα φῄς;
YOUNG SOCRATES: In what sort of matters do you mean?
ΞΕ. περὶ ὅλην, ὥς γε εἰκός, τὴν τοῦ ζῆν παρασκευήν.
STRANGER: Concerning, as is likely, the whole preparation of life.
οἱ μὲν γὰρ δὴ διαφερόντως ὄντες κόσμιοι τὸν ἥσυχον ἀεὶ βίον ἕτοιμοι ζῆν, αὐτοὶ καθʼ αὑτοὺς μόνοι τὰ σφέτερα αὐτῶν πράττοντες, οἴκοι τε αὖ πρὸς ἅπαντας οὕτως ὁμιλοῦντες, καὶ πρὸς τὰς ἔξωθεν πόλεις ὡσαύτως ἕτοιμοι πάντα ὄντες τρόπον τινὰ ἄγειν εἰρήνην·
For those who are exceptionally orderly are always ready to live a quiet life, doing their own business by themselves alone, associating with everyone at home in this way, and toward foreign cities likewise ready in every way to keep peace after a fashion.
καὶ διὰ τὸν ἔρωτα δὴ τοῦτον ἀκαιρότερον ὄντα ἢ χρή, ὅταν ἃ βούλονται πράττωσιν, ἔλαθον αὐτοί τε ἀπολέμως ἴσχοντες καὶ τοὺς νέους ὡσαύτως διατιθέντες, ὄντες τε ἀεὶ τῶν ἐπιτιθεμένων, ἐξ ὧν οὐκ ἐν πολλοῖς ἔτεσιν αὐτοὶ καὶ παῖδες καὶ σύμπασα ἡ πόλις ἀντʼ ἐλευθέρων πολλάκις ἔλαθον αὑτοὺς γενόμενοι δοῦλοι.
And on account of this desire, which is more inopportune than it should be, whenever they do what they wish, they fail to notice that they themselves become un-warlike and dispose the youth in the same way, being always at the mercy of attackers, from which in not many years they themselves, their children, and the whole city often, without realizing it, have become slaves instead of free men.
§308ΝΕ. ΣΩ. χαλεπὸν εἶπες καὶ δεινὸν πάθος.
YOUNG SOCRATES: A hard and terrible suffering you have spoken of.
ΞΕ. τί δʼ οἱ πρὸς τὴν ἀνδρείαν μᾶλλον ῥέποντες;
STRANGER: And what about those who incline more toward courage?
ἆρʼ οὐκ ἐπὶ πόλεμον ἀεί τινα τὰς αὑτῶν συντείνοντες πόλεις διὰ τὴν τοῦ τοιούτου βίου σφοδροτέραν τοῦ δέοντος ἐπιθυμίαν εἰς ἔχθραν πολλοῖς καὶ δυνατοῖς καταστάντες ἢ πάμπαν διώλεσαν ἢ δούλας αὖ καὶ ὑποχειρίους τοῖς ἐχθροῖς ὑπέθεσαν τὰς αὑτῶν πατρίδας;
Do they not, by always stretching their cities toward some war, through a desire for such a life that is more intense than is necessary, having gotten into hostility with many powerful enemies, either completely destroy their own countries or in turn place them as slaves and subjects to their enemies?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἔστι καὶ ταῦτα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: This too is so.
ΞΕ. πῶς οὖν μὴ φῶμεν ἐν τούτοις ἀμφότερα ταῦτα τὰ γένη πολλὴν πρὸς ἄλληλα ἀεὶ καὶ τὴν μεγίστην ἴσχειν ἔχθραν καὶ στάσιν;
STRANGER: How then can we deny that in these matters both of these classes always hold great and the greatest hostility and discord toward each other?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐδαμῶς ὡς οὐ φήσομεν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: In no way shall we deny it.
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν ὅπερ ἐπεσκοποῦμεν κατʼ ἀρχὰς ἀνηυρήκαμεν, ὅτι μόρια ἀρετῆς οὐ σμικρὰ ἀλλήλοις διαφέρεσθον φύσει καὶ δὴ καὶ τοὺς ἴσχοντας δρᾶτον τὸ αὐτὸ τοῦτο;
STRANGER: Have we not then found what we were considering at the beginning, that no small parts of virtue differ from each other by nature, and indeed make those who possess them do this very same thing?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κινδυνεύετον.
YOUNG SOCRATES: They seem to.
ΞΕ. τόδε τοίνυν αὖ λάβωμεν.
STRANGER: Let us then take this in turn.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ ποῖον;
YOUNG SOCRATES: What is that?
ΞΕ. εἴ τίς που τῶν συνθετικῶν ἐπιστημῶν πρᾶγμα ὁτιοῦν τῶν αὑτῆς ἔργων, κἂν εἰ τὸ φαυλότατον, ἑκοῦσα ἐκ μοχθηρῶν καὶ χρηστῶν τινων συνίστησιν, ἢ πᾶσα ἐπιστήμη πανταχοῦ τὰ μὲν μοχθηρὰ εἰς δύναμιν ἀποβάλλει, τὰ δὲ ἐπιτήδεια καὶ χρηστὰ ἔλαβεν, ἐκ τούτων δὲ καὶ ὁμοίων καὶ ἀνομοίων ὄντων, πάντα εἰς ἓν αὐτὰ συνάγουσα, μίαν τινὰ δύναμιν καὶ ἰδέαν δημιουργεῖ.
STRANGER: Whether any of the synthetic sciences ever willingly composes any of its works, even the most trifling, from bad and good materials, or does every science everywhere reject the bad as far as possible and take the suitable and good, and from these, whether they are like or unlike, gathering them all into one, create some single power and form?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.
ΞΕ. οὐδʼ ἄρα ἡ κατὰ φύσιν ἀληθῶς οὖσα ἡμῖν πολιτικὴ μή ποτε ἐκ χρηστῶν καὶ κακῶν ἀνθρώπων ἑκοῦσα εἶναι συστήσηται πόλιν τινά, ἀλλʼ εὔδηλον ὅτι παιδιᾷ πρῶτον βασανιεῖ, μετὰ δὲ τὴν βάσανον αὖ τοῖς δυναμένοις παιδεύειν καὶ ὑπηρετεῖν πρὸς τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ παραδώσει, προστάττουσα καὶ ἐπιστατοῦσα αὐτή, καθάπερ ὑφαντικὴ τοῖς τε ξαίνουσι καὶ τοῖς τἆλλα προπαρασκευάζουσιν ὅσα πρὸς τὴν πλέξιν αὐτῆς συμπαρακολουθοῦσα προστάττει καὶ ἐπιστατεῖ, τοιαῦτα ἑκάστοις ἐνδεικνῦσα τὰ ἔργα ἀποτελεῖν οἷα ἂν ἐπιτήδεια ἡγῆται πρὸς τὴν αὑτῆς εἶναι συμπλοκήν.
STRANGER: Neither, then, will political science, which for us is truly such according to nature, ever willingly compose any city out of good and bad men, but it is clear that she will first test them in play, and after the test she will in turn hand them over to those capable of educating and ministering to this very end, commanding and supervising herself, just as weaving commands and supervises carders and those who make other preliminary preparations for her weaving, following them closely, pointing out to each of them to produce such works as she considers suitable for her own weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite so.