§268ΞΕ. οἷον οἱ ἔμποροι καὶ γεωργοὶ καὶ σιτουργοὶ πάντες, καὶ πρὸς τούτοις γυμνασταὶ καὶ τὸ τῶν ἰατρῶν γένος, οἶσθʼ ὅτι τοῖς περὶ τὰ ἀνθρώπινα νομεῦσιν, οὓς πολιτικοὺς ἐκαλέσαμεν, παντάπασι τῷ λόγῳ διαμάχοιντʼ ἂν οὗτοι σύμπαντες, ὡς σφεῖς τῆς τροφῆς ἐπιμελοῦνται τῆς ἀνθρωπίνης, οὐ μόνον ἀγελαίων ἀνθρώπων ἀλλὰ καὶ τῆς τῶν ἀρχόντων αὐτῶν;
STRANGER: For example, all the merchants, farmers, and bakers, and in addition to these, physical trainers and the class of doctors. You know that all of these would dispute entirely in argument with the shepherds of humans, whom we called statesmen, claiming that they themselves care for human nourishment, not only of herd-like humans but also of the rulers themselves?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ὀρθῶς ἂν λέγοιεν;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Would they not then speak correctly?
ΞΕ. ἴσως.
STRANGER: Perhaps.
καὶ τοῦτο μὲν ἐπισκεψόμεθα, τόδε δὲ ἴσμεν, ὅτι βουκόλῳ γε οὐδεὶς ἀμφισβητήσει περὶ τούτων οὐδενός, ἀλλʼ αὐτὸς τῆς ἀγέλης τροφὸς ὁ βουφορβός, αὐτὸς ἰατρός, αὐτὸς οἷον νυμφευτὴς καὶ περὶ τοὺς τῶν γιγνομένων τόκους καὶ λοχείας μόνος ἐπιστήμων τῆς μαιευτικῆς.
And this indeed we shall examine, but we know this: that no one will dispute with a cowherd about any of these things, but the cowherd himself is the nourisher of the herd, himself the doctor, himself as it were the matchmaker, and concerning the births and deliveries of those being born, he alone is knowledgeable in the art of midwifery.
ἔτι τοίνυν παιδιᾶς καὶ μουσικῆς ἐφʼ ὅσον αὐτοῦ τὰ θρέμματα φύσει μετείληφεν, οὐκ ἄλλος κρείττων παραμυθεῖσθαι καὶ κηλῶν πραΰνειν, μετά τε ὀργάνων καὶ ψιλῷ τῷ στόματι τὴν τῆς αὑτοῦ ποίμνης ἄριστα μεταχειριζόμενος μουσικήν.
Furthermore, as for play and music, as far as his herd-animals naturally participate in them, there is no other better to comfort and soothe them by charming them, managing the music of his own flock best both with instruments and with his bare mouth.
καὶ δὴ καὶ τῶν ἄλλων πέρι νομέων ὁ αὐτὸς τρόπος.
And indeed, the same is the case concerning the other shepherds.
ἦ γάρ;
Is it not so?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθότατα.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Most correctly.
ΞΕ. πῶς οὖν ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος ὀρθὸς φανεῖται καὶ ἀκέραιος ὁ περὶ τοῦ βασιλέως, ὅταν αὐτὸν νομέα καὶ τροφὸν ἀγέλης ἀνθρωπίνης θῶμεν μόνον ἐκκρίνοντες μυρίων ἄλλων ἀμφισβητούντων;
STRANGER: How then will our argument concerning the king appear correct and undamaged, when we set him down as the sole shepherd and nourisher of the human herd, selecting him alone while ten thousand others are disputing it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐδαμῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: By no means.
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν ὀρθῶς ὀλίγον ἔμπροσθεν ἐφοβήθημεν ὑποπτεύσαντες μὴ λέγοντες μέν τι τυγχάνοιμεν σχῆμα βασιλικόν, οὐ μὴν ἀπειργασμένοι γε εἶμέν πω διʼ ἀκριβείας τὸν πολιτικόν, ἕως ἂν τοὺς περικεχυμένους αὐτῷ καὶ τῆς συννομῆς αὐτῷ ἀντιποιουμένους περιελόντες καὶ χωρίσαντες ἀπʼ ἐκείνων καθαρὸν μόνον αὐτὸν ἀποφήνωμεν;
STRANGER: Did we not then correctly fear a little earlier, suspecting that we might happen to speak of some kingly shape, but had not yet worked out the statesman with precision, until we strip away those who cluster around him and claim a share in his pasturing, and separating him from them, show him alone in his purity?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθότατα μὲν οὖν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Most correctly indeed.
ΞΕ. τοῦτο τοίνυν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἡμῖν ποιητέον, εἰ μὴ μέλλομεν ἐπὶ τῷ τέλει καταισχῦναι τὸν λόγον.
STRANGER: This then, Socrates, we must do, if we are not going to disgrace our argument at the end.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδαμῶς τοῦτό γε δραστέον.
YOUNG SOCRATES: But indeed, this must by no means be done.
ΞΕ. πάλιν τοίνυν ἐξ ἄλλης ἀρχῆς δεῖ καθʼ ἑτέραν ὁδὸν πορευθῆναί τινα.
STRANGER: Then again, from another beginning, we must travel along a different path.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποίαν δή;
YOUNG SOCRATES: What kind of path?
ΞΕ. σχεδὸν παιδιὰν ἐγκερασαμένους· συχνῷ γὰρ μέρει δεῖ μεγάλου μύθου προσχρήσασθαι, καὶ τὸ λοιπὸν δή, καθάπερ ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν, μέρος ἀεὶ μέρους ἀφαιρουμένους ἐπʼ ἄκρον ἀφικνεῖσθαι τὸ ζητούμενον.
STRANGER: By mixing in play, as it were; for we must make use of a large part of a great myth, and for the rest indeed, as before, by always subtracting part from part, arrive at the summit of what is sought.
οὐκοῦν χρή;
Is it not necessary?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Entirely so.
ΞΕ. ἀλλὰ δὴ τῷ μύθῳ μου πάνυ πρόσεχε τὸν νοῦν, καθάπερ οἱ παῖδες· πάντως οὐ πολλὰ ἐκφεύγεις παιδιὰς ἔτη.
STRANGER: But indeed, pay close attention to my myth, just like children; after all, you have not escaped the years of play by very much.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. λέγοις ἄν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Speak on.
ΞΕ. ἦν τοίνυν καὶ ἔτι ἔσται τῶν πάλαι λεχθέντων πολλά τε ἄλλα καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ περὶ τὴν Ἀτρέως τε καὶ Θυέστου λεχθεῖσαν ἔριν φάσμα.
STRANGER: There was then, and will still be, among the things told of old, many other things and indeed the marvel concerning the famous strife between Atreus and Thyestes.
ἀκήκοας γάρ που καὶ ἀπομνημονεύεις ὅ φασι γενέσθαι τότε.
For surely you have heard and remember what they say happened then.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ περὶ τῆς χρυσῆς ἀρνὸς ἴσως σημεῖον φράζεις.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Perhaps you mean the sign concerning the golden lamb.
§269ΞΕ. οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλὰ τὸ περὶ τῆς μεταβολῆς δύσεώς τε καὶ ἀνατολῆς ἡλίου καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἄστρων, ὡς ἄρα ὅθεν μὲν ἀνατέλλει νῦν εἰς τοῦτον τότε τὸν τόπον ἐδύετο, ἀνέτελλε δʼ ἐκ τοῦ ἐναντίου, τότε δὲ δὴ μαρτυρήσας ἄρα ὁ θεὸς Ἀτρεῖ μετέβαλεν αὐτὸ ἐπὶ τὸ νῦν σχῆμα.
STRANGER: By no means, but that concerning the change of the setting and rising of the sun and the other stars, how indeed where it now rises, it then used to set, and it rose from the opposite side, and at that time the god, having borne witness to Atreus, changed it to the present shape.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. λέγεται γὰρ οὖν δὴ καὶ τοῦτο.
YOUNG SOCRATES: For indeed, this too is told.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν αὖ καὶ τήν γε βασιλείαν ἣν ἦρξε Κρόνος πολλῶν ἀκηκόαμεν.
STRANGER: And indeed, in turn, we have also heard from many about the kingdom which Cronus ruled.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πλείστων μὲν οὖν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: From very many indeed.
ΞΕ. τί δέ; τὸ τοὺς ἔμπροσθεν φύεσθαι γηγενεῖς καὶ μὴ ἐξ ἀλλήλων γεννᾶσθαι;
STRANGER: And what about the men of former times being born earth-born and not begotten from one another?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ τοῦτο ἓν τῶν πάλαι λεχθέντων.
YOUNG SOCRATES: This too is one of the things told of old.
ΞΕ. ταῦτα τοίνυν ἔστι μὲν σύμπαντα ἐκ ταὐτοῦ πάθους, καὶ πρὸς τούτοις ἕτερα μυρία καὶ τούτων ἔτι θαυμαστότερα, διὰ δὲ χρόνου πλῆθος τὰ μὲν αὐτῶν ἀπέσβηκε, τὰ δὲ διεσπαρμένα εἴρηται χωρὶς ἕκαστα ἀπʼ ἀλλήλων.
STRANGER: All these things then come from the same event, and in addition to these, ten thousand other things even more wondrous than these, but through the passage of time some of them have been extinguished, while others, being scattered, have been told separately from one another.
ὃ δʼ ἐστὶν πᾶσι τούτοις αἴτιον τὸ πάθος οὐδεὶς εἴρηκεν, νῦν δὲ δὴ λεκτέον· εἰς γὰρ τὴν τοῦ βασιλέως ἀπόδειξιν πρέψει ῥηθέν.
But no one has told the event which is the cause of all these things, and now indeed it must be told; for having been told, it will be fitting for the demonstration of the king.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κάλλιστʼ εἶπες, καὶ λέγε μηδὲν ἐλλείπων.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Most beautifully said; speak then, leaving out nothing.
ΞΕ. ἀκούοις ἄν.
STRANGER: Listen then.
τὸ γὰρ πᾶν τόδε τοτὲ μὲν αὐτὸς ὁ θεὸς συμποδηγεῖ πορευόμενον καὶ συγκυκλεῖ, τοτὲ δὲ ἀνῆκεν, ὅταν αἱ περίοδοι τοῦ προσήκοντος αὐτῷ μέτρον εἰλήφωσιν ἤδη χρόνου, τὸ δὲ πάλιν αὐτόματον εἰς τἀναντία περιάγεται, ζῷον ὂν καὶ φρόνησιν εἰληχὸς ἐκ τοῦ συναρμόσαντος αὐτὸ κατʼ ἀρχάς.
For this universe, at one time the god himself guides on its way and helps to roll around, but at another time he lets it go, when its revolutions have already received the measure of its appropriate time, and it is rotated in the opposite direction by itself, being a living thing and having received intelligence from the one who put it together at the beginning.
τοῦτο δὲ αὐτῷ τὸ ἀνάπαλιν ἰέναι διὰ τόδʼ ἐξ ἀνάγκης ἔμφυτον γέγονε.
And this backward motion has indeed become natural to it of necessity, because of the following.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. διὰ τὸ ποῖον δή;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Because of what kind of thing?
ΞΕ. τὸ κατὰ ταὐτὰ καὶ ὡσαύτως ἔχειν ἀεὶ καὶ ταὐτὸν εἶναι τοῖς πάντων θειοτάτοις προσήκει μόνοις, σώματος δὲ φύσις οὐ ταύτης τῆς τάξεως.
STRANGER: To belong always in the same state and in the same way, and to be the same, belongs to the most divine of all things alone, but the nature of body is not of this order.
ὃν δὲ οὐρανὸν καὶ κόσμον ἐπωνομάκαμεν, πολλῶν μὲν καὶ μακαρίων παρὰ τοῦ γεννήσαντος μετείληφεν, ἀτὰρ οὖν δὴ κεκοινώνηκέ γε καὶ σώματος· ὅθεν αὐτῷ μεταβολῆς ἀμοίρῳ γίγνεσθαι διὰ παντὸς ἀδύνατον, κατὰ δύναμίν γε μὴν ὅτι μάλιστα ἐν τῷ αὐτῷ κατὰ ταὐτὰ μίαν φορὰν κινεῖται· διὸ τὴν ἀνακύκλησιν εἴληχεν, ὅτι σμικροτάτην τῆς αὑτοῦ κινήσεως παράλλαξιν.
Now that which we have named heaven and cosmos has received many blessed things from its creator, but indeed it has also shared in body; hence it is impossible for it to become free from change for all time, yet to the extent of its power, it moves as much as possible in the same place and in the same way with a single motion; therefore it has received its reverse rotation, which is the smallest possible variation of its own motion.
αὐτὸ δὲ ἑαυτὸ στρέφειν ἀεὶ σχεδὸν οὐδενὶ δυνατὸν πλὴν τῷ τῶν κινουμένων αὖ πάντων ἡγουμένῳ· κινεῖν δὲ τούτῳ τοτὲ μὲν ἄλλως, αὖθις δὲ ἐναντίως οὐ θέμις.
But to turn itself always is almost impossible for anything except for the leader of all things that are moved; and for this leader to move it at one time in one way, and again in the opposite way, is not permitted by divine law.