§425ΣΩ. μᾶλλον δὲ οὐχ ἡμεῖς, ἀλλὰ λέγων ἐξηνέχθην.
SOCRATES: Or rather not we, but I was carried away in speaking.
συνέθεσαν μὲν γὰρ οὕτως ᾗπερ σύγκειται οἱ παλαιοί· ἡμᾶς δὲ δεῖ, εἴπερ τεχνικῶς ἐπιστησόμεθα σκοπεῖσθαι αὐτὰ πάντα, οὕτω διελομένους, εἴτε κατὰ τρόπον τά τε πρῶτα ὀνόματα κεῖται καὶ τὰ ὕστερα εἴτε μή, οὕτω θεᾶσθαι· ἄλλως δὲ συνείρειν μὴ φαῦλον ᾖ καὶ οὐ καθʼ ὁδόν, ὦ φίλε Ἑρμόγενες.
For the ancients composed them in the very way they are put together; but we, if we are to know how to examine all these things scientifically, must, having divided them in this way, observe whether both the primary and the subsequent names are established properly or not; otherwise, linking them together might be worthless and not on the right path, my dear Hermogenes.
ΕΡΜ. ἴσως νὴ Δίʼ, ὦ Σώκρατες.
HERMOGENES: Perhaps so, by Zeus, Socrates.
ΣΩ. τί οὖν;
SOCRATES: What then?
σὺ πιστεύεις σαυτῷ οἷός τʼ ἂν εἶναι ταῦτα οὕτω διελέσθαι;
Do you trust yourself to be able to divide these things in this way?
ἐγὼ μὲν γὰρ οὔ.
For I do not.
ΕΡΜ. πολλοῦ ἄρα δέω ἔγωγε.
HERMOGENES: I, then, am very far from it.
ΣΩ. ἐάσομεν οὖν, ἢ βούλει οὕτως ὅπως ἂν δυνώμεθα, καὶ ἂν σμικρόν τι αὐτῶν οἷοί τʼ ὦμεν κατιδεῖν, ἐπιχειρῶμεν, προειπόντες, ὥσπερ ὀλίγον πρότερον τοῖς θεοῖς, ὅτι οὐδὲν εἰδότες τῆς ἀληθείας τὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων δόγματα περὶ αὐτῶν εἰκάζομεν, οὕτω δὲ καὶ νῦν αὖ εἰπόντες αὐτοῖς ἴωμεν, ὅτι εἰ μέν τι χρῆν αὐτὰ διελέσθαι εἴτε ἄλλον ὁντινοῦν εἴτε ἡμᾶς, οὕτως ἔδει αὐτὰ διαιρεῖσθαι, νῦν δὲ τὸ λεγόμενον κατὰ δύναμιν δεήσει ἡμᾶς περὶ αὐτῶν πραγματεύεσθαι;
SOCRATES: Shall we then abandon it, or do you wish that, in whatever way we can, even if we are able to discern only some small part of them, we should make the attempt, having first declared—just as we did a little earlier to the gods, that knowing nothing of the truth we are only guessing at human opinions about them—so indeed now again saying to ourselves as we proceed, that if indeed these things had to be divided by anyone else or by us, they ought to be divided in this way, but as it is, we must, as the saying goes, busy ourselves with them according to our ability?
δοκεῖ ταῦτα, ἢ πῶς λέγεις;
Does this seem right, or what do you say?
ΕΡΜ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν σφόδρα ἔμοιγε δοκεῖ.
HERMOGENES: It certainly seems so to me, very much so.
ΣΩ. γελοῖα μὲν οἶμαι φανεῖσθαι, ὦ Ἑρμόγενες, γράμμασι καὶ συλλαβαῖς τὰ πράγματα μεμιμημένα κατάδηλα γιγνόμενα· ὅμως δὲ ἀνάγκη.
SOCRATES: I think it will seem ridiculous, Hermogenes, for things to become clear by being imitated by letters and syllables; nevertheless, it is necessary.
οὐ γὰρ ἔχομεν τούτου βέλτιον εἰς ὅτι ἐπανενέγκωμεν περὶ ἀληθείας τῶν πρώτων ὀνομάτων, εἰ μὴ ἄρα βούλει, ὥσπερ οἱ τραγῳδοποιοὶ ἐπειδάν τι ἀπορῶσιν ἐπὶ τὰς μηχανὰς καταφεύγουσι θεοὺς αἴροντες, καὶ ἡμεῖς οὕτως εἰπόντες ἀπαλλαγῶμεν, ὅτι τὰ πρῶτα ὀνόματα οἱ θεοὶ ἔθεσαν καὶ διὰ ταῦτα ὀρθῶς ἔχει.
For we have nothing better than this to which we can refer concerning the truth of the primary names, unless perhaps you wish, just as the tragic poets when they are in difficulty flee to their machines by raising up gods, that we too should get off by saying that the gods established the primary names and therefore they are correct.
ἆρα καὶ ἡμῖν κράτιστος οὗτος τῶν λόγων;
Would this be the strongest argument for us too?
ἢ ἐκεῖνος, ὅτι παρὰ βαρβάρων τινῶν αὐτὰ παρειλήφαμεν, εἰσὶ δὲ ἡμῶν ἀρχαιότεροι βάρβαροι;
Or rather that other one, that we have received them from some barbarians, and that barbarians are older than we?
§426ΣΩ. ἢ ὅτι ὑπὸ παλαιότητος ἀδύνατον αὐτὰ ἐπισκέψασθαι, ὥσπερ καὶ τὰ βαρβαρικά;
SOCRATES: Or that on account of their antiquity it is impossible to examine them, just as with barbarian names?
αὗται γὰρ ἂν πᾶσαι ἐκδύσεις εἶεν καὶ μάλα κομψαὶ τῷ μὴ ἐθέλοντι λόγον διδόναι περὶ τῶν πρώτων ὀνομάτων ὡς ὀρθῶς κεῖται.
For all these would be very clever evasions for one who does not wish to give an account of the primary names, showing how they are correctly established.
καίτοι ὅτῳ τις τρόπῳ τῶν πρώτων ὀνομάτων τὴν ὀρθότητα μὴ οἶδεν, ἀδύνατόν που τῶν γε ὑστέρων εἰδέναι, ἃ ἐξ ἐκείνων ἀνάγκη δηλοῦσθαι ὧν τις πέρι μηδὲν οἶδεν·
And yet, if someone does not know in some way the correctness of the primary names, it is surely impossible for him to know the subsequent ones, which must be made clear by those of which he knows nothing.
ἀλλὰ δῆλον ὅτι τὸν φάσκοντα περὶ αὐτῶν τεχνικὸν εἶναι περὶ τῶν πρώτων ὀνομάτων μάλιστά τε καὶ καθαρώτατα δεῖ ἔχειν ἀποδεῖξαι, ἢ εὖ εἰδέναι ὅτι τά γε ὕστερα ἤδη φλυαρήσει.
Rather, it is clear that the one who claims to be an expert about them must be able to demonstrate about the primary names in the clearest and most unmixed way, or else know well that he will already be talking nonsense about the subsequent ones.
ἢ σοὶ ἄλλως δοκεῖ;
Or does it seem otherwise to you?
ΕΡΜ. οὐδʼ ὁπωστιοῦν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἄλλως.
HERMOGENES: Not in the least otherwise, Socrates.
ΣΩ. ἃ μὲν τοίνυν ἐγὼ ᾔσθημαι περὶ τῶν πρώτων ὀνομάτων πάνυ μοι δοκεῖ ὑβριστικὰ εἶναι καὶ γελοῖα.
SOCRATES: Now indeed, what I have perceived about the primary names seems to me to be very insolent and ridiculous.
τούτων οὖν σοι μεταδώσω, ἂν βούλῃ· σὺ δʼ ἄν τι ἔχῃς βέλτιόν ποθεν λαβεῖν, πειρᾶσθαι καὶ ἐμοὶ μεταδιδόναι.
I will share these with you, then, if you wish; and if you have something better to get from somewhere, try to share it with me as well.
ΕΡΜ. ποιήσω ταῦτα.
HERMOGENES: I will do so.
ἀλλὰ θαρρῶν λέγε.
But speak with confidence.
ΣΩ. πρῶτον μὲν τοίνυν τὸ ῥῶ ἔμοιγε φαίνεται ὥσπερ ὄργανον εἶναι πάσης τῆς κινήσεως, ἣν οὐδʼ εἴπομεν διʼ ὅτι ἔχει τοῦτο τοὔνομα· ἀλλὰ γὰρ δῆλον ὅτι ἕσις βούλεται εἶναι· οὐ γὰρ ἦτα ἐχρώμεθα ἀλλὰ εἶ τὸ παλαιόν.
SOCRATES: First of all, then, the letter rho seems to me to be, as it were, an instrument for all motion—for which we did not even say why it has this name; but indeed it is clear that it wants to be 'sending' (hesis), for anciently we did not use eta but epsilon-iota.
ἡ δὲ ἀρχὴ ἀπὸ τοῦ
κίειν
—ξενικὸν δὲ τοὔνομα—τοῦτο δʼ ἐστὶν ἰέναι.
And the beginning is from 'to go' (kiein)—which is a foreign word—and this means 'to go' (ienai).
εἰ οὖν τις τὸ παλαιὸν αὐτῆς εὕροι ὄνομα εἰς τὴν ἡμετέραν φωνὴν συμβαῖνον,
ἕσις
ἂν ὀρθῶς καλοῖτο· νῦν δὲ ἀπό τε τοῦ ξενικοῦ τοῦ κίειν καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς τοῦ ἦτα μεταβολῆς καὶ τῆς τοῦ νῦ ἐνθέσεως
κίνησις
κέκληται, ἔδει δὲ
κιείνησιν
καλεῖσθαι.
If, then, someone were to find its ancient name coinciding with our tongue, it would correctly be called 'hesis'; but now, from the foreign 'kiein' and from the change of eta and the insertion of nu, it has been called 'kinesis', whereas it ought to have been called 'kieinesis'.
ἡ δὲ στάσις ἀπόφασις τοῦ ἰέναι βούλεται εἶναι, διὰ δὲ τὸν καλλωπισμὸν
στάσις
ὠνόμασται.
And 'rest' (stasis) wants to be a negation of 'to go' (ienai), but for the sake of embellishment it has been named 'stasis'.
τὸ δὲ οὖν ῥῶ τὸ στοιχεῖον, ὥσπερ λέγω, καλὸν ἔδοξεν ὄργανον εἶναι τῆς κινήσεως τῷ τὰ ὀνόματα τιθεμένῳ πρὸς τὸ ἀφομοιοῦν τῇ φορᾷ, πολλαχοῦ γοῦν χρῆται αὐτῷ εἰς αὐτήν·
At any rate, the element rho, as I say, seemed to the giver of names to be a beautiful instrument of motion for making a likeness to movement, for he uses it in many places for this.
πρῶτον μὲν ἐν αὐτῷ τῷ
ῥεῖν
καὶ
ῥοῇ
διὰ τούτου τοῦ γράμματος τὴν φορὰν μιμεῖται, εἶτα ἐν τῷ
τρόμῳ,
εἶτα ἐν τῷ
τρέχειν,
ἔτι δὲ ἐν τοῖς τοιοῖσδε ῥήμασιν οἷον
κρούειν,
θραύειν,
ἐρείκειν,
θρύπτειν,
κερματίζειν,
ῥυμβεῖν,
πάντα ταῦτα τὸ πολὺ ἀπεικάζει διὰ τοῦ ῥῶ.
First, in 'to flow' (rhein) and 'flow' (rhoe) itself, he imitates movement with this letter; then in 'tremble' (tromos), then in 'to run' (trechein), and further in such verbs as 'to strike' (krouein), 'to shatter' (thrauein), 'to rend' (ereikein), 'to crush' (thryptein), 'to crumble' (kermatizein), 'to whir' (rhymbein); all these he mostly represents through the rho.
ἑώρα γὰρ οἶμαι τὴν γλῶτταν ἐν τούτῳ ἥκιστα μένουσαν, μάλιστα δὲ σειομένην· διὸ φαίνεταί μοι τούτῳ πρὸς ταῦτα κατακεχρῆσθαι.
For he saw, I think, that the tongue is least at rest in this sound, and is shaken most; therefore, it seems to me, he made extensive use of it for these things.
τῷ δὲ αὖ ἰῶτα πρὸς τὰ λεπτὰ πάντα, ἃ δὴ μάλιστα διὰ πάντων ἴοι ἄν.
And again, he used the iota for all things thin, which indeed would especially go through all things.