§413ΣΩ. μέχρι μὲν οὖν ἐνταῦθα, ὃ νυνδὴ ἐλέγομεν, παρὰ πολλῶν ὁμολογεῖται τοῦτο εἶναι τὸ δίκαιον· ἐγὼ δέ, ὦ Ἑρμόγενες, ἅτε λιπαρὴς ὢν περὶ αὐτοῦ, ταῦτα μὲν πάντα διαπέπυσμαι ἐν ἀπορρήτοις, ὅτι τοῦτό ἐστι τὸ δίκαιον καὶ τὸ αἴτιον—διʼ ὃ γὰρ γίγνεται, τοῦτʼ ἔστι τὸ αἴτιον—καὶ
Δία
καλεῖν ἔφη τις τοῦτο ὀρθῶς ἔχειν διὰ ταῦτα.
SOCRATES: Up to this point, then, as we were saying just now, it is agreed by many that this is what the just is; but I, Hermogenes, because I am persistent about it, have inquired into all these things in secret, [learning] that this is the just and the cause—for that because of which something comes to be is the cause—and someone said that it is correct to call this 'Zeus' for these reasons.
ἐπειδὰν δʼ ἠρέμα αὐτοὺς ἐπανερωτῶ ἀκούσας ταῦτα μηδὲν ἧττον· τί οὖν ποτʼ ἔστιν, ὦ ἄριστε, δίκαιον, εἰ τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχει;
But whenever, after hearing these things, I gently ask them nonetheless: 'What on earth then is the just, my good sir, if this is so?' I seem already to be asking further than what is fitting and to leap beyond the boundaries.
δοκῶ τε ἤδη μακρότερα τοῦ προσήκοντος ἐρωτᾶν καὶ ὑπὲρ τὰ ἐσκαμμένα ἅλλεσθαι. ἱκανῶς γάρ μέ φασι πεπύσθαι καὶ ἐπιχειροῦσιν, βουλόμενοι ἀποπιμπλάναι με, ἄλλος ἄλλα ἤδη λέγειν, καὶ οὐκέτι συμφωνοῦσιν.
For they say that I have inquired sufficiently, and they attempt, wishing to satisfy me, to say different things now, and they no longer agree.
ὁ μὲν γὰρ τίς φησιν τοῦτο εἶναι δίκαιον, τὸν ἥλιον· τοῦτον γὰρ μόνον διαϊόντα καὶ κάοντα ἐπιτροπεύειν τὰ ὄντα.
For one person says that this is the just, namely the sun; for this alone, passing through and burning, directs existing things.
ἐπειδὰν οὖν τῳ λέγω αὐτὸ ἅσμενος ὡς καλόν τι ἀκηκοώς, καταγελᾷ μου οὗτος ἀκούσας καὶ ἐρωτᾷ εἰ οὐδὲν δίκαιον οἶμαι εἶναι ἐν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἐπειδὰν ὁ ἥλιος δύῃ.
So whenever I tell this to someone, glad as if I had heard something beautiful, he laughs at me on hearing it and asks if I think there is no justice among humans whenever the sun sets.
λιπαροῦντος οὖν ἐμοῦ ὅτι αὖ ἐκεῖνος λέγει αὐτό, τὸ πῦρ φησιν· τοῦτο δὲ οὐ ῥᾴδιόν ἐστιν εἰδέναι.
Then, when I persist [to know] what that other person in turn says it is, he says 'fire'; but this is not easy to understand.
ὁ δὲ οὐκ αὐτὸ τὸ πῦρ φησιν, ἀλλʼ αὐτὸ τὸ θερμὸν τὸ ἐν τῷ πυρὶ ἐνόν.
And another says it is not fire itself, but the heat itself which is in the fire.
ὁ δὲ τούτων μὲν πάντων καταγελᾶν φησιν, εἶναι δὲ τὸ δίκαιον ὃ λέγει Ἀναξαγόρας, νοῦν εἶναι τοῦτο· αὐτοκράτορα γὰρ αὐτὸν ὄντα καὶ οὐδενὶ μεμειγμένον πάντα φησὶν αὐτὸν κοσμεῖν τὰ πράγματα διὰ πάντων ἰόντα.
And another says that he laughs at all of these, and that the just is what Anaxagoras says, namely that this is intellect; for he says that since it is independent and mixed with nothing, it orders all things by passing through all.
ἐνταῦθα δὴ ἐγώ, ὦ φίλε, πολὺ ἐν πλείονι ἀπορίᾳ εἰμὶ ἢ πρὶν ἐπιχειρῆσαι μανθάνειν περὶ τοῦ δικαίου ὅτι ποτʼ ἔστιν.
Here indeed, my friend, I am in much greater difficulty than before I attempted to learn what on earth the just is.
ἀλλʼ οὖν οὗπερ ἕνεκα ἐσκοποῦμεν, τό γε ὄνομα τοῦτο φαίνεται αὐτῷ διὰ ταῦτα κεῖσθαι.
But at any rate, that for the sake of which we were examining, this name at least seems to have been established for it for these reasons.
ΕΡΜ. φαίνῃ μοι, ὦ Σώκρατες, ταῦτα μὲν ἀκηκοέναι του καὶ οὐκ αὐτοσχεδιάζειν.
HERMOGENES: You seem to me, Socrates, to have heard these things from some one and not to be improvising them.
ΣΩ. τί δὲ τἆλλα;
SOCRATES: What about the other things?
ΕΡΜ. οὐ πάνυ.
HERMOGENES: Not so much.
ΣΩ. ἄκουε δή· ἴσως γὰρ ἄν σε καὶ τὰ ἐπίλοιπα ἐξαπατήσαιμι ὡς οὐκ ἀκηκοὼς λέγω.
SOCRATES: Listen then; for perhaps I might deceive you in the remaining things also, as if I were speaking without having heard them.
μετὰ γὰρ δικαιοσύνην τί ἡμῖν λείπεται;
For after justice, what is left for us?
ἀνδρείαν οἶμαι οὔπω διήλθομεν.
I think we have not yet gone through courage.
ἀδικία μὲν γὰρ δῆλον ὅτι ἐστὶν ὄντος ἐμπόδισμα τοῦ διαϊόντος, ἀνδρεία δὲ σημαίνει ὡς ἐν μάχῃ ἐπονομαζομένης τῆς ἀνδρείας—μάχην δʼ εἶναι ἐν τῷ ὄντι, εἴπερ ῥεῖ, οὐκ ἄλλο τι ἢ τὴν ἐναντίαν ῥοήν—ἐὰν οὖν τις ἐξέλῃ τὸ δέλτα τοῦ ὀνόματος τῆς ἀνδρείας, αὐτὸ μηνύει τὸ ἔργον τὸ ὄνομα ἡ
ἀνρεία.
For injustice, clearly, is the hindrance of that which passes through existing things, while courage signifies—since courage is named as if in battle, and battle in what exists, if indeed it flows, is nothing other than the opposite flow—if, therefore, one takes away the delta from the name of courage, the name itself, 'anreia', indicates the action.
§414ΣΩ. δῆλον οὖν ὅτι οὐ πάσῃ ῥοῇ ἡ ἐναντία ῥοὴ ἀνδρεία ἐστίν, ἀλλὰ τῇ παρὰ τὸ δίκαιον ῥεούσῃ· οὐ γὰρ ἂν ἐπῃνεῖτο ἡ ἀνδρεία.
SOCRATES: It is clear, then, that the opposite flow is not courage for every flow, but for the one flowing contrary to justice; for otherwise courage would not be praised.
καὶ τὸ
ἄρρεν
καὶ ὁ
ἀνὴρ
ἐπὶ παραπλησίῳ τινὶ τούτῳ ἐστί, τῇ ἄνῳ ῥοῇ.
And 'male' and 'man' are based on something close to this, namely the upward flow.
γυνὴ
δὲ γονή μοι φαίνεται βούλεσθαι εἶναι.
And 'woman' seems to me to want to be 'birth'.
τὸ δὲ
θῆλυ
ἀπὸ τῆς θηλῆς τι φαίνεται ἐπωνομάσθαι· ἡ δὲ
θηλὴ
ἆρά γε, ὦ Ἑρμόγενες, ὅτι τεθηλέναι ποιεῖ ὥσπερ τὰ ἀρδόμενα;
And 'female' seems to be named from 'teat'; and as for 'teat', Hermogenes, is it because it makes things flourish like watered things?
ΕΡΜ. ἔοικέν γε, ὦ Σώκρατες.
HERMOGENES: Indeed it seems so, Socrates.
ΣΩ. καὶ μὴν αὐτό γε τὸ
θάλλειν
τὴν αὔξην μοι δοκεῖ ἀπεικάζειν τὴν τῶν νέων, ὅτι ταχεῖα καὶ ἐξαιφνιδία γίγνεται.
SOCRATES: And indeed, 'to flourish' itself seems to me to represent the growth of young things, because it happens rapidly and suddenly.
οἷόνπερ οὖν μεμίμηται τῷ ὀνόματι, συναρμόσας ἀπὸ τοῦ θεῖν καὶ ἅλλεσθαι τὸ ὄνομα.
He has mimicked this, as it were, in the name, having fitted together the name from 'to run' and 'to leap'.
ἀλλʼ οὐ γὰρ ἐπισκοπεῖς με ὥσπερ ἐκτὸς δρόμου φερόμενον ἐπειδὰν λείου ἐπιλάβωμαι· ἐπίλοιπα δὲ ἡμῖν ἔτι συχνὰ τῶν δοκούντων σπουδαίων εἶναι.
But you are not watching me as I am carried out of the course whenever I get hold of smooth ground; and we still have many remaining things of those thought to be serious.
ΕΡΜ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
HERMOGENES: You speak the truth.
ΣΩ. ὧν γʼ ἔστιν ἓν καὶ
τέχνην
ἰδεῖν ὅτι ποτὲ βούλεται εἶναι.
SOCRATES: Of which it is possible to see one also, namely 'art', what on earth it wants to be.
ΕΡΜ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
HERMOGENES: By all means.
ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν τοῦτό γε ἕξιν νοῦ σημαίνει, τὸ μὲν ταῦ ἀφελόντι, ἐμβαλόντι δὲ οὖ μεταξὺ τοῦ χεῖ καὶ τοῦ νῦ καὶ τοῦ νῦ καὶ τοῦ ἦτα;
SOCRATES: Does this not signify 'possession of intellect', if one takes away the tau, and inserts omicron-upsilon between the chi and the ny, and between the ny and the eta?
ΕΡΜ. καὶ μάλα γε γλίσχρως, ὦ Σώκρατες.
HERMOGENES: And very forcedly indeed, Socrates.
ΣΩ. ὦ μακάριε, οὐκ οἶσθʼ ὅτι τὰ πρῶτα ὀνόματα τεθέντα κατακέχωσται ἤδη ὑπὸ τῶν βουλομένων τραγῳδεῖν αὐτά, περιτιθέντων γράμματα καὶ ἐξαιρούντων εὐστομίας ἕνεκα καὶ πανταχῇ στρεφόντων, καὶ ὑπὸ καλλωπισμοῦ καὶ ὑπὸ χρόνου.
SOCRATES: My dear man, do you not know that the original names established have by now been buried by those wishing to dress them up, adding and taking away letters for the sake of euphony and twisting them in every way, both by embellishment and by time?
ἐπεὶ ἐν τῷ
κατόπτρῳ
οὐ δοκεῖ ἄτοπον εἶναι τὸ ἐμβεβλῆσθαι τὸ ῥῶ;
For since in 'mirror' does it not seem absurd that the rho has been inserted?
ἀλλὰ τοιαῦτα οἶμαι ποιοῦσιν οἱ τῆς μὲν ἀληθείας οὐδὲν φροντίζοντες, τὸ δὲ στόμα πλάττοντες, ὥστʼ ἐπεμβάλλοντες πολλὰ ἐπὶ τὰ πρῶτα ὀνόματα τελευτῶντες ποιοῦσιν μηδʼ ἂν ἕνα ἀνθρώπων συνεῖναι ὅτι ποτὲ βούλεται τὸ ὄνομα· ὥσπερ καὶ τὴν Σφίγγα ἀντὶ
φικὸς
σφίγγα
καλοῦσιν, καὶ ἄλλα πολλά.
But I think those who care nothing for the truth but mold the mouth make such changes, so that by inserting many things onto the original names they end up making it so that not a single human being can understand what on earth the name wants to be; just as they also call the Sphinx 'Sphinx' instead of 'Phix', and many other things.
ΕΡΜ. ταῦτα μὲν ἔστιν οὕτως, ὦ Σώκρατες.
HERMOGENES: These things are so, Socrates.
ΣΩ. εἰ δʼ αὖ τις ἐάσει καὶ ἐντιθέναι καὶ ἐξαιρεῖν ἅττʼ ἂν βούληταί τις εἰς τὰ ὀνόματα, πολλὴ εὐπορία ἔσται καὶ πᾶν ἂν παντί τις ὄνομα πράγματι προσαρμόσειεν.
SOCRATES: But if, on the other hand, one allows anyone to insert and take away whatever one wishes into names, there will be great ease, and one could fit any name to any thing.
ΕΡΜ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
HERMOGENES: You speak the truth.
ΣΩ. ἀληθῆ μέντοι.
SOCRATES: Indeed true.
ἀλλὰ τὸ μέτριον οἶμαι δεῖ φυλάττειν καὶ τὸ εἰκὸς σὲ τὸν σοφὸν ἐπιστάτην.
But I think you, the wise director, must guard moderation and probability.
ΕΡΜ. βουλοίμην ἄν.
HERMOGENES: I should like to.