Humanitext Reader

Aristophanes · Clouds §1045-1117

Victory of the Worse Argument and Entrusting Pheidippides

Passage 14 of 19 · Greek

Summary

The contest between the Stronger and Weaker Arguments reaches its climax as they debate warm baths, public speaking, and the value of temperance. The Weaker Argument wins a decisive victory by pointing out that politicians, actors, and the audience are overwhelmingly passive homosexuals, causing the Stronger Argument to surrender. Strepsiades then consigns his son to the Weaker Argument's tutelage, and the Chorus begins its address to the judges, warning the father of future regrets.

§1045καίτοι τίνα γνώμην ἔχων ψέγεις τὰ θερμὰ λουτρά;
Weaker Argument: And yet, with what idea do you censure warm baths?
§1046ὁτιὴ κάκιστόν ἐστι καὶ δειλὸν ποιεῖ τὸν ἄνδρα.
Stronger Argument: Because it is very bad and makes a man cowardly.
§1047ἐπίσχες· εὐθὺς γάρ σʼ ἔχω μέσον λαβὼν ἄφυκτον.
Weaker Argument: Hold on; for I have immediately caught you in an inescapable grip.
§1048καί μοι φράσον, τῶν τοῦ Διὸς παίδων τίνʼ ἄνδρʼ ἄριστον §1049ψυχὴν νομίζεις, εἰπέ, καὶ πλείστους πόνους πονῆσαι.
And tell me, of the sons of Zeus, whom do you think to be the best man in soul, tell me, and to have endured the most labors?
§1050ἐγὼ μὲν οὐδένʼ Ἡρακλέους βελτίονʼ ἄνδρα κρίνω.
Stronger Argument: I judge no man to be better than Heracles.
§1051ποῦ ψυχρὰ δῆτα πώποτʼ εἶδες Ἡράκλεια λουτρά;
Weaker Argument: Where indeed did you ever see cold baths of Heracles?
§1052καίτοι τίς ἀνδρειότερος ἦν;
And yet who was more courageous?
§1052bταῦτʼ ἐστὶ ταῦτʼ ἐκεῖνα, §1053ἃ τῶν νεανίσκων ἀεὶ διʼ ἡμέρας λαλούντων §1054πλῆρες τὸ βαλανεῖον ποιεῖ, κενὰς δὲ τὰς παλαίστρας.
Stronger Argument: This is indeed that very thing, which, while the young men chatter all day long, makes the bath-house full, but the wrestling-schools empty.
§1055εἶτʼ ἐν ἀγορᾷ τὴν διατριβὴν ψέγεις· ἐγὼ δʼ ἐπαινῶ.
Weaker Argument: Then you censure spending time in the marketplace; but I praise it.
§1056εἰ γὰρ πονηρὸν ἦν, Ὅμηρος οὐδέποτʼ ἂν ἐποίει §1057τὸν Νέστορʼ ἀγορητὴν ἂν οὐδὲ τοὺς σοφοὺς ἅπαντας.
For if it were bad, Homer would never have made Nestor, nor all the wise men, speakers in the assembly.
§1058ἄνειμι δῆτʼ ἐντεῦθεν ἐς τὴν γλῶτταν, ἣν ὁδὶ μὲν §1059οὔ φησι χρῆναι τοὺς νέους ἀσκεῖν, ἐγὼ δέ φημι.
I will go up then from here to the tongue, which this man indeed says the youth must not practice, but I say they must.
§1060καὶ σωφρονεῖν αὖ φησι χρῆναι· δύο κακὼ μεγίστω.
And again he says they must be temperate; two of the greatest evils.
§1061ἐπεὶ σὺ διὰ τὸ σωφρονεῖν τῷ πώποτʼ εἶδες ἤδη §1062ἀγαθάν τι γενόμενον, φράσον, καί μʼ ἐξέλεγξον εἰπών.
For since, on account of being temperate, whom have you ever seen any good come to, tell me, and refute me by speaking.
§1063πολλοῖς.
Stronger Argument: To many.
ὁ γοῦν Πηλεὺς ἔλαβε διὰ τοῦτο τὴν μάχαιραν.
Peleus, at any rate, received his sword because of this.
§1064μάχαιραν;
Weaker Argument: A sword?
ἀστεῖόν γε κέρδος ἔλαβεν ὁ κακοδαίμων.
What an elegant profit the miserable wretch received!
§1065Ὑπέρβολος δʼ οὑκ τῶν λύχνων πλεῖν ἢ τάλαντα πολλὰ §1066εἴληφε διὰ πονηρίαν, ἀλλʼ οὐ μὰ Δίʼ οὐ μάχαιραν.
But Hyperbolus, the lamp-maker, received more than many talents through wickedness, but by Zeus, not a sword.
§1067καὶ τὴν Θέτιν γʼ ἔγημε διὰ τὸ σωφρονεῖν ὁ Πηλεύς.
Stronger Argument: And indeed Peleus married Thetis because of being temperate.
§1068κᾆτʼ ἀπολιποῦσά γʼ αὐτὸν ᾤχετʼ· οὐ γὰρ ἦν ὑβριστὴς §1069οὐδʼ ἡδὺς ἐν τοῖς στρώμασιν τὴν νύκτα παννυχίζειν· §1070γυνὴ δὲ σιναμωρουμένη χαίρει· σὺ δʼ εἶ Κρόνιππος.
Weaker Argument: And then she left him and went away; for he was not passionate, nor pleasant to spend the whole night with in the blankets; and a woman delights in being treated wantonly; but you are a superannuated dotard.
§1071σκέψαι γὰρ ὦ μειράκιον ἐν τῷ σωφρονεῖν ἅπαντα §1072ἅνεστιν, ἡδονῶν θʼ ὅσων μέλλεις ἀποστερεῖσθαι, §1073παίδων γυναικῶν κοττάβων ὄψων πότων κιχλισμῶν.
For consider, O youth, all that is involved in being temperate, and of how many pleasures you are about to be deprived: of boys, women, cottabus, fine foods, drinks, giggling.
§1074καίτοι τί σοι ζῆν ἄξιον, τούτων ἐὰν στερηθῇς;
And yet what is life worth to you, if you are deprived of these?
§1075εἶεν.
Very well.
πάρειμʼ ἐντεῦθεν ἐς τὰς τῆς φύσεως ἀνάγκας.
I will pass next from here to the necessities of nature.
§1076ἥμαρτες, ἠράσθης, ἐμοίχευσάς τι, κᾆτʼ ἐλήφθης·
You committed an error, you fell in love, you committed some adultery, and then you were caught.
§1077ἀπόλωλας· ἀδύνατος γὰρ εἶ λέγειν.
You are ruined; for you are unable to speak.
ἐμοὶ δʼ ὁμιλῶν §1078χρῶ τῇ φύσει, σκίρτα, γέλα, νόμιζε μηδὲν αἰσχρόν.
But by associating with me, follow your nature, leap, laugh, consider nothing shameful.
§1079μοιχὸς γὰρ ἢν τύχῃς ἁλούς, τάδʼ ἀντερεῖς πρὸς αὐτόν, §1080ὡς οὐδὲν ἠδίκηκας· εἶτʼ ἐς τὸν Δίʼ ἐπανενεγκεῖν,
For if you happen to be caught as an adulterer, you will reply to him thus, that you have done no wrong; and then refer it to Zeus, how even he is inferior to love and women.
§1081κἀκεῖνος ὡς ἥττων ἔρωτός ἐστι καὶ γυναικῶν· §1082καίτοι σὺ θνητὸς ὢν θεοῦ πῶς μεῖζον ἂν δύναιο;
And yet, how could you, being a mortal, be stronger than a god?
§1083τί δʼ ἢν ῥαφανιδωθῇ πιθόμενός σοι τέφρᾳ τε τιλθῇ,
Stronger Argument: But what if, obeying you, he is stuffed with radishes and plucked with hot ash?
§1084ἕξει τινὰ γνώμην λέγειν τὸ μὴ εὐρύπρωκτος εἶναι;
What argument will he have to say that he is not a pathic?
§1085ἢν δʼ εὐρύπρωκτος ᾖ, τί πείσεται κακόν;
Weaker Argument: And if he is a pathic, what harm will he suffer?
§1086τί μὲν οὖν ἂν ἔτι μεῖζον πάθοι τούτου ποτέ;
Stronger Argument: What greater evil indeed could he ever suffer than this?
§1087τί δῆτʼ ἐρεῖς, ἢν τοῦτο νικηθῇς ἐμοῦ;
Weaker Argument: What then will you say, if you are defeated by me in this?
§1088σιγήσομαι.
Stronger Argument: I will be silent.
τί δʼ ἄλλο;
What else?
§1088bφέρε δή μοι φράσον· §1089συνηγοροῦσιν ἐκ τίνων;
Weaker Argument: Come now, tell me: from what group do the advocates come?
§1090ἐξ εὐρυπρώκτων.
Stronger Argument: From the pathics.
§1090bπείθομαι.
Weaker Argument: I agree.
§1091τί δαί;
What then?
τραγῳδοῦσʼ ἐκ τίνων;
From what group do the tragic actors come?
§1092ἐξ εὐρυπρώκτων.
Stronger Argument: From the pathics.
§1092bεὖ λέγεις.
Weaker Argument: You speak well.
§1093δημηγοροῦσι δʼ ἐκ τίνων;
And from what group do the public speakers come?
§1094ἐξ εὐρυπρώκτων.
Stronger Argument: From the pathics.
§1094bἆρα δῆτʼ §1095ἔγνωκας ὡς οὐδὲν λέγεις;
Weaker Argument: Have you then indeed realized that you are speaking nonsense?
§1096καὶ τῶν θεατῶν ὁπότεροι §1097πλείους σκόπει.
And look which of the spectators are more numerous.
§1097bκαὶ δὴ σκοπῶ.
Stronger Argument: Indeed, I am looking.
§1098τί δῆθʼ ὁρᾷς;
Weaker Argument: What then do you see?
§1098aπολὺ πλείονας νὴ τοὺς θεοὺς §1099τοὺς εὐρυπρώκτους·
Stronger Argument: By the gods, much more numerous are the pathics!
τουτονὶ §1100γοῦν οἶδʼ ἐγὼ κἀκεινονὶ §1101καὶ τὸν κομήτην τουτονί.
This one at any rate, I know, and that one, (Included in 1099) and this long-haired one here.
§1101aτί δῆτʼ ἐρεῖς;
Weaker Argument: What then will you say?
§1102ἡττήμεθʼ·
Stronger Argument: We are defeated!
ὦ κινούμενοι §1103πρὸς τῶν θεῶν δέξασθέ μου §1103aθοἰμάτιον, ὡς §1104ἐξαυτομολῶ πρὸς ὑμᾶς.
O pathics, by the gods, receive my cloak, as I am deserting to you.
§1105τί δῆτα;
Weaker Argument: What then?
πότερα τοῦτον ἀπάγεσθαι λαβὼν §1106βούλει τὸν υἱόν, ἢ διδάσκω σοι λέγειν;
Do you wish to take this son of yours away, or shall I teach him to speak?
§1107δίδασκε καὶ κόλαζε καὶ μέμνησʼ ὅπως §1108εὖ μοι στομώσεις αὐτόν, ἐπὶ μὲν θάτερα §1109οἷον δικιδίοις, τὴν δʼ ἑτέραν αὐτοῦ γνάθον §1110στόμωσον οἵαν ἐς τὰ μείζω πράγματα.
Strepsiades: Teach him, and punish him, and remember to sharpen his tongue well for me; on one side like for petty lawsuits, but his other jaw sharpen for larger matters.
§1111ἀμέλει κομιεῖ τοῦτον σοφιστὴν δεξιόν.
Weaker Argument: Don't worry, you will receive him as a clever sophist.
§1112ὠχρὸν μὲν οὖν οἶμαί γε καὶ κακοδαίμονα.
Strepsiades: Pale indeed then, I suppose, and miserable.
§1113χωρεῖτέ νυν.
Chorus: Go now.
οἶμαι δέ σοι ταῦτα μεταμελήσειν.
But I think you will repent of these things.
§1115τοὺς κριτὰς ἃ κερδανοῦσιν, ἤν τι τόνδε τὸν χορὸν §1116ὠφελῶσʼ ἐκ τῶν δικαίων, βουλόμεσθʼ ἡμεῖς φράσαι.
What benefits the judges will gain, if they assist this chorus in accordance with justice, we wish to state.
§1117πρῶτα μὲν γάρ, ἢν νεᾶν βούλησθʼ ἐν ὥρᾳ τοὺς ἀγρούς,
For first, if you wish to plow your fields in due season,

Notes

  1. 1047σʼ ἔχω μέσον λαβὼν ἄφυκτον — The combination of the verb ἔχω with the aorist active participle λαβών (from λαμβάνω) forms a periphrastic perfect, indicating the continuation of a completed grasp. The phrase μέσον λαβών ('having caught around the middle') is a metaphor from wrestling, denoting a decisive, inescapable hold on an opponent.
  2. 1080ἐπανενεγκεῖν — The infinitive ἐπανενεγκεῖν (aorist active infinitive of ἐπαναφέρω) functions semantically as an infinitive of command or exhortation, operating in tandem with the imperatives in line 1078 (χρῶ, σκίρτα, γέλα) or the future indicative ἀντερεῖς in line 1079, prescribing the course of action to be taken when caught in adultery.
  3. 1108ἐπὶ μὲν θάτερα ... τὴν δʼ ἑτέραν — Using the contrastive μὲν ... δὲ construction as its framework, this passage contrasts how both sides of the boy's jaw (one for minor lawsuits and the other for larger state affairs) should be sharpened. The imperative verb στόμωσον ('sharpen!') from the δὲ clause is implicitly omitted and shared as the governing verb for the μὲν clause.

Cite this passage

Aristophanes, Clouds §1045-1117. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0019.tlg003.humanitext-grc2:1045-1117

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