§17Dixerit aliquis: si nulla est mortuis cura de uiuis, quomodo ille diues, qui apud inferos torquebatur, rogabat Abraham patrem, ut mittat Lazarum ad quinque fratres suos nondum mortuos et agat cum eis, ne ueniant et ipsi in eundem tormentorum locum? sed numquid quia hoc ille diues dixit, ideo quid fratres agerent uel quid paterentur illo tempore sciuit? ita illi fuit cura de uiuis, quamuis quid agerent omnino nesciret, quemadmodum est nobis cura de mortuis, quamuis quid agant utique nesciamus.
Someone might say: if the dead have no care for the living, how is it that the rich man, who was tormented in hell, asked father Abraham to send Lazarus to his five brothers who were not yet dead, and to deal with them, lest they also should come into the same place of torments? But did that rich man, because he said this, therefore know what his brothers were doing or what they were suffering at that time? In this way he had a care for the living, although he was entirely ignorant of what they were doing, just as we have a care for the dead, although we certainly do not know what they are doing.
nam si nihil de mortuis curaremus, non utique pro illis deo supplicaremus.
For if we cared nothing for the dead, we would certainly not pray to God for them.
denique Abraham nec Lazarum misit et Moysen ac prophetas hic eos habere respondit, quos audire deberent, ut ad illa supplicia non uenirent.
Finally, Abraham did not send Lazarus, and replied that they had Moses and the prophets here, whom they ought to hear, so that they might not come to those torments.
ubi rursus occurrit, quomodo quid hic ageretur Abraham pater ipse nesciebat, ubi sciebat esse Moysen et prophetas, id est libros eorum, quibus homines oboediendo tormenta inferna euitarent, ubi denique nouerat diuitem illum in deliciis, pauperem uero Lazarum in laboribus doloribusque uixisse.
Where again it occurs, how father Abraham himself did not know what was being done here, when he knew that Moses and the prophets were here, that is, their books, by obeying which men would avoid the torments of hell, and when, finally, he knew that the rich man had lived in luxury, but the poor Lazarus in labors and pains.
nam et hoc illi ait: memento, fili, quia percepisti bona in uita tua, Lazarus autem mala. sciebat ergo haec, quae utique apud uiuos, non apud mortuos gesta fuerant.
For he also said to him: "Remember, son, that you received good things in your lifetime, and Lazarus evil things." He knew these things, therefore, which had certainly been done among the living, not among the dead.
uerum non cum agerentur in uiuis, sed eis mortuis potuit Lazaro indicante cognoscere, ne falsum sit, quod ait propheta: Abraham nesciuit nos. §18Proinde fatendum est nescire quidem mortuos quid hic agatur, sed dum hic agitur, postea uero audire ab eis. qui hinc ad eos moriendo pergunt, non quidem omnia, sed quae sinuntur indicare, qui sinuntur etiam ista meminisse, et quae illos, quibus haec indicant, oportet audire.
Yet he was able to know them, not when they were being done among the living, but after they were dead, through the indication of Lazarus, lest that be false which the prophet says: "Abraham has not known us." Therefore, it must be confessed that the dead indeed do not know what is being done here, but while it is being done here, they afterwards hear it from those who go from here to them by dying; not indeed everything, but what those are permitted to indicate who are also permitted to remember these things, and what those whom they indicate these to ought to hear.
. possunt et ab, angelis, qui rebus, quae aguntur hic, praesto sunt, audire aliquid mortui, quod unumquemque illorum audire debere iudicat, cui cuncta subiecta sunt.
The dead can also hear something from the angels, who are present at the things that are done here, which He, to whom all things are subject, judges that each of them ought to hear.
nisi enim essent angeli, qui possent interesse et uiuorum et mortuorum locis, non dixisset dominus Iesus: contigit autem mori inopem illum et auferri ab angelis in sinum Abrahae. nunc ergo hic, nunc ibi esse potuerunt, qui hinc illuc quem deus uoluit abstulerunt.
For if there were no angels who could be present in the places of both the living and the dead, the Lord Jesus would not have said: "And it came to pass that the poor man died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom." Now, therefore, they who carried him from here to there, whom God willed, were able to be now here, now there.
possunt etiam spiritus mortuorum aliqua, quae hic aguntur, quae necessarium est eos nosse et quos necessarium est ea nosse, non solum praesentia uel praeterita, uerum etiam futura spiritu dei reuelante cognoscere, sicut non omnes homines, sed prophetae, dum hic uiuerent, cognoscebant, nec ipsi omnia, sed quae illis esse reuelanda dei prouidentia iudicabat.
The spirits of the dead can also know some things that are done here, which it is necessary for them to know and for those whom it is necessary to know them, not only present or past, but even future things, by the spirit of God revealing them, just as not all men, but the prophets, while they lived here, knew them, and they themselves did not know all things, but only what the providence of God judged should be revealed to them.
mitti quoque ad uiuos aliquos ex mortuis, sicut e contrario Paulus ex uiuis in paradisum raptus est, diuina scriptura testatur.
That some of the dead are also sent to the living, just as, on the contrary, Paul was snatched from the living into paradise, divine Scripture testifies.
nam Samuhel propheta defunctus uiuo regi Sauli etiam futura praedixit: quamuis nonnulli non ipsum fuisse, qui potuisset magicis artibus euocari, sed aliquem spiritum tam malis operibus congruentem illius existiment similitudinem figurasse: cum liber Ecclesiasticus, quem Iesus filius Sirach scripsisse traditur et propter eloquii nonnullam similitudinem Salomonis pronuntiatur, contineat in laude patrum, quod Samuhel etiam mortuus prophetauerit.
For the deceased prophet Samuel foretold even future things to the living king Saul; although some think that it was not himself who could be called up by magical arts, but that some spirit conforming to such evil works simulated his likeness: although the book of Ecclesiasticus, which Jesus the son of Sirach is said to have written, and is pronounced Solomon's because of some resemblance of style, contains in the praise of the fathers that Samuel prophesied even after he was dead.
sed si et huic libro ex Hebraeorum quia in eo non est canone contradicitur, quid de Moyse dicturi sumus, qui certe et in Deuteronomio mortuus et in euangelio cum Helia, qui mortuus non est, legitur adparuisse uiuentibus?
But if this book is also objected to because it is not in the canon of the Hebrews, what shall we say of Moses, who is certainly read to have died in Deuteronomy, and in the Gospel to have appeared to the living with Elijah, who did not die?