§14Similia sunt autem somniis nonnulla etiam uisa uigilantium, qui turbatos habent sensus, sicut phrenetici uel quocumque furentes modo.
Moreover, certain visions of those who are awake but have disturbed senses, such as madmen or those who are raving in any other way, are similar to dreams.
nam et ipsi loquuntur secum, quasi uere praesentibus loquantur, <loquuntur> etiam cum absentibus quam praesentibus, quorum imagines cernunt siue uiuorum siue mortuorum.
For they also speak with themselves, as if they were speaking to persons truly present, and they <speak> even with those who are absent as if they were present, whose images they behold, whether of the living or of the dead.
sed quemadmodum hi, qui uiuunt, ab eis se uideri et cum eis se colloqui nesciunt — neque enim re uera ipsi adsunt aut ipsi sermocinantur, sed turbatis sensibus homines talia uisa imaginaria patiuntur — eo modo et hi, qui ex hac uita migrarunt, sic affectis hominibus uidentur quasi praesentes, cum sint absentes et, utrum aliquis eos imaginaliter uideat, omnino nescientes.
But just as those who are living do not know that they are seen by them and are talking with them—for they themselves are not truly present, nor do they themselves converse, but men with disturbed senses suffer such imaginary visions—in the same way those also who have departed from this life appear as if present to men so affected, while they are absent and entirely ignorant of whether anyone sees them in image.
§15Huic rei simile est etiam illud, cum homines altius, quam si dormirent, subtrahuntur corporis sensibus et occupantur talibus uisis.
Similar to this is also that case when men are withdrawn from the senses of the body more deeply than if they were sleeping, and are occupied with such visions.
et his enim adparent imagines uiuorum atque mortuorum; sed cum fuerint sensibus redditi, quoscumque mortuos uidisse se dixerint, uere cum eis fuisse creduntur nec adtendunt qui haec audiunt similiter ab eis absentium atque nescientium quorundam etiam imagines uisas esse uiuorum.
For to these also the images of the living and of the dead appear; but when they have been restored to their senses, whichever of the dead they say they have seen, they are believed to have been truly with them, nor do those who hear these things attend to the fact that, in like manner, the images of certain living persons, who were absent and ignorant, were also seen by them.
homo quidam Curma nomine municipii Tulliensis, quod Hipponi proximum est, curialis pauper, uix illius loci duumuiralicius et simpliciter rusticanus, cum aegrotaret, ablatus a sensibus paene mortuus iacuit aliquot diebus: tenuissimus flatus in naribus, qui manu admota utcumque sentiebatur et erat exiguum uiuentis indicium, sepeliri ut exanimem non sinebat.
A certain man named Curma, of the municipal town of Tullia, which is very near to Hippo, a poor curial, scarcely of duumviral rank in that place, and a simple rustic, when he was sick, being withdrawn from his senses, lay almost dead for several days: a very thin breath in his nostrils, which was felt in some way when a hand was applied, and was a tiny sign of a living person, did not allow him to be buried as one dead.
nullos artus mouebat, nulla sumebat alimenta; nihil oculis, nihil ullo alio sensu corporis qualibet inpacta molestia sentiebat.
He moved no limbs, took no food; he felt nothing with his eyes, nor with any other sense of the body, whatever trouble was inflicted.
uidebat tamen multa uelut in somnis, quae tandem aliquando post dies plurimos quasi euigilans uisa narrauit.
Yet he saw many things as if in dreams, which at last, after very many days, as if waking up, he narrated.
ac primum mox ut aperuit oculos, eat aliquis, inquit, ad domum Curmae fabri ferrarii et uideat, quid ibi agatur. quo cum itum esset, inuentus est mortuus eo momento, quo iste fuerat sensibus redditus et paene a morte reuixerat.
And first, as soon as he opened his eyes, he said, "Let someone go to the house of Curma the blacksmith and see what is being done there." When they had gone there, he was found dead at the very moment in which this man had been restored to his senses and had almost revived from death.
tunc intentis, qui aderant, illum exhiberi iussum esse, quando ipse dimissus est. indicauit seque illic unde redierat dixit audisse, quod non Curma curialis, sed Curma faber ferrarius ad loca illa mortuorum praeceptus fuisset adduci.
Then, to the attentive bystanders, he indicated that the other had been ordered to be presented when he himself was dismissed, and said that he had heard in that place from which he returned that not Curma the curial, but Curma the blacksmith had been commanded to be brought to those regions of the dead.
in illis ergo uisis, tamquam somniis suis, inter eos defunctos, quos uidebat pro meritorum diuersitate tractari, agnouit etiam nonnullos, quos nouerat uiuos.
In those visions therefore, as if in his dreams, among those deceased whom he saw being treated according to the diversity of their merits, he recognized also several whom he had known when they were alive.
ipsos autem uere forsitan credidissem, si non inter illa quasi somnia sua uidisset etiam quosdam, qui nunc usque adhuc uiuunt, clericos uidelicet aliquos regionis suae, a quorum ibi presbytero audiuit, ut apud Hipponem baptizaretur a me, quod et factum esse dicebat.
I might perhaps have believed that they were really present, if he had not seen among those dream-like visions also some who live even to this day, namely, some clerics of his region, from whose priest there he heard that he should be baptized at Hippo by me, which he said had also been done.
uiderat itaque in illa uisione presbyterum, clericos, me ipsum, nondum scilicet mortuos, in qua postea uidit et mortuos.
Thus he had seen in that vision the priest, the clerics, and myself—who were not yet dead, of course—in which he afterwards saw also the dead.
cur non etiam illos sicut nos uidisse credatur, utrosque scilicet absentes atque nescientes, ac per hoc non ipsos, sed similitudines eorum, sicut etiam locorum? nam et fundum uidit, ubi erat ille cum clericis presbyter, et Hipponem, ubi a me quasi baptizatus est: in quibus locis profecto non erat, quando illic sibi esse uidebatur.
Why should he not be believed to have seen them just as he saw us, both of course being absent and ignorant, and therefore not themselves, but their likenesses, just as also of the places? For he also saw the estate where that priest was with the clerics, and Hippo, where he was as it were baptized by me: in which places he certainly was not when he seemed to himself to be there.
nam quid ibi ageretur eo tempore, nesciebat: quod procul dubio sciret, si uere ibi esset.
For what was being done there at that time he did not know: which he would without doubt have known if he had truly been there.
uisa sunt igitur ista, quae non praesentantur in ipsis rebus, ut sunt, sed in quibusdam rerum imaginibus adumbrantur.
Therefore, those things were seen which are not presented in the things themselves as they are, but are shadowed forth in certain images of things.
denique post multa, quae uidit, etiam in paradisum se introductum esse narrauit dictumque sibi esse, cum inde dimitteretur rediturus ad suos: uade, baptizare, si uis esse in isto loco beatorum. deinde, ut a me baptizaretur, admonitus iam factum esse respondit.
Finally, after many things which he saw, he narrated that he had also been introduced into paradise, and that it was said to him when he was dismissed from there to return to his people: "Go, be baptized, if you wish to be in this place of the blessed." Then, when he was admonished to be baptized by me, he answered that it had already been done.
cui rursus ille, qui cum eo loquebatur, uade, inquit, uere baptizare; nam illud in uisione uidisti. post ista conualuit, perrexit Hipponem.
To whom again he who was speaking with him said, "Go, be truly baptized; for you saw that in a vision." After these things he recovered and went to Hippo.
pascha iam propinquabat.
Easter was already approaching.
dedit nomen inter alios conpetentes, pariter cum plurimis incognitus nobis; nec illam mihi uisionem nec cuiquam nostrorum indicare curauit.
He gave his name among the other candidates, being unknown to us along with many others; nor did he care to indicate that vision to me or to any of our people.
baptizatus est, peractis diebus sanctis remeauit ad propria.
He was baptized, and when the holy days were completed, he returned to his own place.
biennio uel amplius transacto ego haec cuncta cognoui: primo per quendam meum eiusque amicum in conuiuio meo, cum quaedam talia loqueremur; deinde institi ac feci, ut haec mihi praesens ipse narraret adtestantibus honestis ciuibus suis et de mirabili eius aegritudine, ut iacuerit paene mortuus per dies plurimos, et de illo alio Curma fabro ferrario, quod commemoraui. superius, et de his omnibus, quae cum mihi diceret, iam et se tunc ab illo audisse recolebant atque firmabant.
After two years or more had passed, I learned all these things: first through a certain friend of mine and of his, at my banquet, when we were speaking of some such things; then I urged and brought it about that he himself, being present, should narrate these things to me, with his honorable fellow citizens attesting both concerning his wonderful sickness, how he lay almost dead for very many days, and concerning that other Curma the blacksmith, whom I mentioned above, and concerning all these things; and while he was telling me these, they already recollected and confirmed that they had heard them from him at that time.
quamobrem sicut uidit baptismum suum et me ipsum et Hipponem et basilicam et baptisterium non in rebus ipsis, sed in quibusdam similitudinibus rerum, ita et alios quosdam uiuos eisdem nescientibus uiuis.
Wherefore, just as he saw his baptism and myself and Hippo and the basilica and the baptistery not in the things themselves, but in certain likenesses of the things, so also he saw certain other living persons, while those same living persons were ignorant of it.
Cur non ergo ita et illos mortuos eisdem nescientibus mortuis?
Why not then in the same way also those dead persons, while those same dead persons were ignorant of it?