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Seneca the Younger · The Phoenician Women §580-664

Jocasta's Counsel and the Brothers' Debate on Kingship

Passage 8 of 8 · Latin

Summary

Jocasta advises Polynices to seek other prosperous kingdoms instead of bringing ruin to Thebes, warning of the uncertainty of war; however, Eteocles joins the argument, leading to a fierce debate between the brothers on the nature of kingship, hatred, and the price of power.

§580videre passim? moenibus caris potes §581hostem admovere, sanguine et flamma potes §582implere Thebas? tam ferus durum geris §583saevumque in iras pectus? et nondum imperas.
to behold them here and there? Are you able to bring the enemy to your beloved walls, are you able to fill Thebes with blood and flame? Do you bear a chest so wild, hard, and savage for anger? And you do not yet rule.
§584quid sceptra facient? pone vaesanos, precor, §585animi tumores teque pietati refer.
What will sceptres do? Put away the mad swelling of your mind, I pray, and return yourself to piety.
§586Vt profugus errem? semper ut patria arcear §587opemque gentis hospes externae sequar?
Polynices: Am I to wander as a fugitive? Am I always to be barred from my country, and seek the help of a foreign nation as a guest?
§588quid paterer aliud, si fefellissem fidem?
What else would I suffer, if I had broken faith?
§589si peierassem? fraudis alienae dabo §590poenas, at ille praemium scelerum feret?
If I had perjured myself? Shall I pay the penalty for another's deceit, while he bears the reward of his crimes?
§591iubes abire: matris imperio obsequor—
You order me to depart: I obey my mother's command— give me a place to which I may return.
§592da quo revertar, regia frater meus §593habitat superba: parva me abscondat casa?
My brother inhabits a proud palace: is a tiny cottage to hide me?
§594hanc date repulso; liceat exiguo lare
Give this to me, who has been rejected; is it permitted to balance a kingdom with a tiny hearth?
§595pensare regnum? coniugi donum datus §596arbitria thalami dura felicis feram §597humilisque socerum lixa dominantem sequar?
Given as a gift to my wife, shall I bear the harsh decrees of her fortunate marriage chamber, and, as a humble camp-follower, attend my dominating father-in-law?
§598in servitutem cadere de regno grave est.
To fall into servitude from a kingdom is heavy.
§599ioc. Si regna quaeris nec potest sceptro manus §600vacare saevo, multa quae possunt peti §601in orbe toto quaelibet tellus dabit.
Jocasta: If you seek kingdoms, and your hand cannot be without a cruel sceptre, many things which can be sought any land in the whole world will give you.
§602hinc nota Baccho Tmolus attollit iuga, §603qua lata terris spatia frugiferis iacent §604et qua trahens opulenta Pactolus vada §605inundat auro rura; nec laetis minus §606Maeandros arvis flectit errantis aquas §607rapidusque campos fertiles Hermus secat; §608hinc grata Cereri Gargara et dives solum §609quod Xanthus ambit nivibus Idaeis tumens; §610hinc qua relinquit nomen Ionii mare §611faucesque Abydo Sestos opposita premit, §612aut quae latus iam propior orienti dedit §613tutamque crebris portibus Lyciam videt:
On this side Tmolus, known to Bacchus, raises its ridges, where wide spaces lie with fruit-bearing lands, and where Pactolus, dragging its wealthy shallows, inundates the countryside with gold; nor with less joyful fields does Maeander bend its wandering waters, and swift Hermus cuts the fertile plains; On that side is Gargara, pleasing to Ceres, and the rich soil which Xanthus surrounds, swelling with Idaean snows; on that side, where the sea leaves the name of the Ionian, and Sestos, opposite to Abydos, narrows the straits, or the land which has now given its side closer to the east and sees Lycia safe with its frequent harbors: seek these kingdoms with the sword; against these peoples let your brave father-in-law bring arms; let him prepare these nations for your sceptre and hand them over.
§614haec regna ferro quaere, in hos populos ferat §615socer arma fortis, has tuo sceptro paret §616tradatque gentes, hoc adhuc regnum puta
Think that your father still holds this kingdom.
§617tenere patrem, melius exilium est tibi §618quam reditus iste: crimine alieno exulas, §619tuo redibis.
Exile is better for you than that return of yours: you are in exile by another's crime, but you will return by your own.
melius istis viribus §620nova regna nullo scelere maculata appetes.
It is better to seek new kingdoms with those strengths of yours, kingdoms stained by no crime.
§621quin ipse frater arma comitatus tua §622tibi militabit.
Nay, your brother himself, having accompanied your arms, will fight for you.
vade et id bellum gere §623in quo pater materque pugnanti tibi
Go and wage that war in which both father and mother can favor you as you fight.
§624favere possint, regna cum scelere omnibus §625sunt exilis graviora, nunc belli mala
Kingdoms with crime are heavier for all than exiles.
§626propone, dubias Martis incerti vices: §627licet omne tecum Graeciae robur trahas, §628licet arma longe miles ac late explicet, §629fortuna belli semper ancipiti in loco est.
Now picture the evils of war, the doubtful shifts of uncertain Mars: though you drag all the strength of Greece with you, though the soldier deploys his arms far and wide, the fortune of war is always in a precarious place.
§630quodcumque Mars decernit; exaequat duos, §631licet impares sint, gladius; et spes et metus
Whatever Mars decides; the sword makes two equal, even though they be unequal; and both hope and fear blind Fortune tosses about.
§632Fors caeca versat, praemium incertum petis, §633certum scelus, favisse fac votis deos
You seek an uncertain reward, a certain crime.
§634omnes tuis: cessere et aversi fugam §635petiere cives, clade funesta iacens §636obtexit agros miles— exultes licet §637victorque fratris spolia deiecti geras: §638frangenda palma est.
Suppose that all the gods have favored your prayers: the citizens have given way and, turned, have sought flight, and the soldier, lying in deadly slaughter, has covered the fields—you may exult, and as victor you may wear the spoils of your overthrown brother: the palm must be broken.
quale tu hoc bellum putas, §639in quo execrandum victor admittit nefas,
What kind of war do you think this is, in which the victor admits an accursed crime if he rejoices?
§640si gaudet? hunc quem vincere infelix cupis, §641cum viceris, lugebis.
This man whom you, unhappy one, desire to conquer, when you have conquered, you will mourn.
infaustas age §642dimitte pugnas, libera patriam metu, §643luctu parentes,
Come, dismiss the ill-omened battles, free your country from fear, your parents from grief.
§643bSceleris et fraudis suae §644poenas nefandus frater ut nullas ferat?
Polynices: So that my unspeakable brother may bear no punishment for his crime and deceit?
§645Ne metue.
Jocasta: Do not fear.
poenas et quidem solvet graves: §646regnabit, est haec poena, si dubitas, avo
He will pay penalties, and indeed heavy ones: he will reign; this is the penalty.
§647patrique crede: Cadmus hoc dicet tibi §648Cadmique proles, sceptra Thebano fuit
If you doubt, believe your grandfather and father: Cadmus will tell you this, and the offspring of Cadmus.
§649impune nulli gerere, nec quisquam fide §650rupta tenebit illa: iam numeres licet §651fratrem inter istos.
To no Theban has it been unpunished to bear the sceptre, nor will anyone hold it with broken faith: now you may count your brother among those.
§651bNumeret, est tanti mihi
Eteocles: Let him count.
§652cum regibus iacere, te turbae exulum §653ascribo.
It is worth so much to me to lie with kings; you I enroll in the crowd of exiles.
§653bRegna, dummodo invisus tuis.
Polynices: Reign, so long as you are hated by your own.
§654Regnare non vult esse qui invisus timet: §655simul ista mundi conditor posuit deus,
Eteocles: He does not wish to reign, whoever fears to be hated: the god who established the world put those things together, hatred and kingship.
§656odium atque regnum: regis hoc magni reor, §657odia ipsa premere, multa dominantem vetat §658amor suorum; plus in iratos licet,
I think this is the part of a great king, to suppress hatreds themselves; many things the love of his own forbids a ruler; more is allowed against those who are angry.
§659qui vult amari, languida regnat manu.
He who wishes to be loved, reigns with a slack hand.
§660Invisa numquam imperia retinentur diu.
Polynices: Hated empires are never retained for long.
§661Praecepta melius imperi reges dabunt; §662exilia tu dispone, pro regno velim— §663Patriam penates coniugem flammis dare?
Eteocles: Kings will give the precepts of empire better; do you arrange exiles, in place of a kingdom I would wish— Polynices: To give your country, household gods, and wife to the flames?
§664Imperia pretio quolibet constant bene.
Eteocles: Power is well worth any price.

Notes

  1. 586Vt profugus errem — An independent subjunctive introduced by "ut" to express indignation, protest, or disbelief: "Am I to wander as a fugitive?" Here, Polynices reacts with vehement rejection to his mother's suggestion.
  2. 633favisse fac deos — The imperative "fac" (from "facere"), followed here by an accusative and infinitive construction ("favisse... deos"), functions as a concessive or hypothetical imperative: "suppose/assume that the gods have favored (your prayers)."
  3. 651best tanti — An impersonal expression using the genitive of value ("tanti", from "tantus"), meaning "it is of such value to me" or "it is well worth it for me." It expresses Eteocles' readiness to pay any price, even death, to remain a king.
  4. 664constant bene — The verb "constare" (to cost, to be valued) combined with the adverb "bene" (well/cheaply) forms an idiomatic expression meaning "to be well worth it" or "to be bought at a good price," conveying the ruthless logic of tyranny.

Cite this passage

Seneca the Younger, The Phoenician Women §580-664. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:latinLit:phi1017.phi003.humanitext-lat2:580-664

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