§8.1339aσημεῖον γὰρ οὐ μικρὸν ὅτι δύνανται τοῦτο παρασκευάζειν, ἐν γὰρ τοῖς Ὀλυμπιονίκαις δύο τις ἂν ἢ τρεῖς εὕροι τοὺς αὐτοὺς νενικηκότας ἄνδρας τε καὶ παῖδας, διὰ τὸ νέους ἀσκοῦντας ἀφαιρεῖσθαι τὴν δύναμιν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀναγκαίων γυμνασίων·
For it is no small sign that they can produce this; for among the Olympic victors one would find only two or three who have won both as men and as boys, because by training when young they have their strength taken away by the compulsory exercises.
ὅταν δʼ ἀφʼ ἥβης ἔτη τρία πρὸς τοῖς ἄλλοις μαθήμασι γένωνται, τότε ἁρμόττει καὶ τοῖς πόνοις καὶ ταῖς ἀναγκοφαγίαις καταλαμβάνειν τὴν ἐχομένην ἡλικίαν·
But when they have spent three years after puberty on other studies, then it is fitting to occupy the next age period with both labors and forced diets.
ἅμα γὰρ τῇ τε διανοίᾳ καὶ τῷ σώματι διαπονεῖν οὐ δεῖ, τοὐναντίον γὰρ ἑκάτερος ἀπεργάζεσθαι πέφυκε τῶν πόνων, ἐμποδίζων ὁ μὲν τοῦ σώματος πόνος τὴν διάνοιαν ὁ δὲ ταύτης τὸ σῶμα).
For one must not labor hard at the same time with both the intellect and the body; for on the contrary, each of these labors is by nature suited to produce opposite results, the labor of the body hindering the intellect, and that of the intellect hindering the body.
περὶ δὲ μουσικῆς ἔνια μὲν διηπορήκαμεν τῷ λόγῳ καὶ πρότερον, καλῶς δʼ ἔχει καὶ νῦν ἀναλαβόντας αὐτὰ προαγαγεῖν, ἵνα ὥσπερ ἐνδόσιμον γένηται τοῖς λόγοις οὓς ἄν τις εἴπειεν ἀποφαινόμενος περὶ αὐτῆς.
Concerning music, we have already raised some questions in our discussion before, and it is well also now to take them up and advance them, so that it may serve as a keynote to the arguments which one might make in expressing an opinion about it.
οὔτε γὰρ τίνα ἔχει δύναμιν ῥᾴδιον περὶ αὐτῆς διελεῖν, οὔτε τίνος δεῖ χάριν μετέχειν αὐτῆς, πότερον παιδιᾶς ἕνεκα καὶ ἀναπαύσεως, καθάπερ ὕπνου καὶ μέθης (ταῦτα γὰρ καθʼ αὑτὰ μὲν οὐδὲ τῶν σπουδαίων, ἀλλʼ ἡδέα, καὶ ἀναπαύει μέριμναν, ὥς φησιν Εὐριπίδης· διὸ καὶ τάττουσιν αὐτὴν καὶ χρῶνται πᾶσι τούτοις ὁμοίως, ὕπνῳ καὶ μέθῃ καὶ μουσικῇ· τιθέασι δὲ καὶ τὴν ὄρχησιν ἐν τούτοις), ἢ μᾶλλον οἰητέον πρὸς ἀρετήν τι τείνειν τὴν μουσικήν, ὡς δυναμένην, καθάπερ ἡ γυμναστικὴ τὸ σῶμα ποιόν τι παρασκευάζει, καὶ τὴν μουσικὴν τὸ ἦθος ποιόν τι ποιεῖν, ἐθίζουσαν δύνασθαι χαίρειν ὀρθῶς, ἢ πρὸς διαγωγήν τι συμβάλλεται καὶ πρὸς φρόνησιν (καὶ γὰρ τοῦτο τρίτον θετέον τῶν εἰρημένων).
For it is neither easy to distinguish what power it has, nor for the sake of what one must participate in it—whether for the sake of play and relaxation, like sleep and deep drinking (for these in themselves are not of the serious things, but are pleasant and relax care, as Euripides says; wherefore they also class music with them and employ all these similarly: sleep, deep drinking, and music; and they also place dancing among these)—or rather we must think that music tends in some way toward virtue, as being able to make our character of a certain quality, just as gymnastics makes the body of a certain quality, by habituating us to be able to enjoy rightly; or does it contribute in some way to cultivated leisure and to wisdom (for this must be set as the third of the things mentioned).
ὅτι μὲν οὖν δεῖ τοὺς νέους μὴ παιδιᾶς ἕνεκα παιδεύειν, οὐκ ἄδηλον (οὐ γὰρ παίζουσι μανθάνοντες· μετὰ λύπης γὰρ ἡ μάθησις)·
That, therefore, we must not educate the youth for the sake of play is not unclear (for they do not play while learning; for learning is with pain).
ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδὲ διαγωγήν γε παισὶν ἁρμόττει καὶ ταῖς ἡλικίαις ἀποδιδόναι ταῖς τοιαύταις (οὐθενὶ γὰρ ἀτελεῖ προσήκει τέλος).
But indeed, neither is it fitting to assign cultivated leisure to children and to such ages (for no end belongs to what is incomplete).
ἀλλʼ ἴσως ἂν δόξειεν ἡ τῶν παίδων σπουδὴ παιδιᾶς εἶναι χάριν ἀνδράσι γενομένοις καὶ τελειωθεῖσιν.
But perhaps it might seem that the serious effort of children is for the sake of play when they have become men and have been perfected.
ἀλλʼ εἰ τοῦτʼ ἐστὶ τοιοῦτον, τίνος ἂν ἕνεκα δέοι μανθάνειν αὐτούς, ἀλλὰ μή, καθάπερ οἱ τῶν Περσῶν καὶ Μήδων βασιλεῖς, διʼ ἄλλων αὐτὸ ποιούντων μεταλαμβάνειν τῆς ἡδονῆς καὶ τῆς μαθήσεως;
But if this is so, why would they need to learn it themselves, and not, like the kings of the Persians and Medes, share in its pleasure and learning through others performing it?
καὶ γὰρ ἀναγκαῖον βέλτιον ἀπεργάζεσθαι τοὺς αὐτὸ τοῦτο πεποιημένους ἔργον καὶ τέχνην τῶν τοσοῦτον χρόνον ἐπιμελουμένων ὅσον πρὸς μάθησιν μόνον.
For it is necessary that those who have made this very thing their work and art should produce better results than those who have cared for it only for so much time as is sufficient for learning.
εἰ δὲ δεῖ τὰ τοιαῦτα διαπονεῖν αὐτούς, καὶ τὰ περὶ τὴν τῶν ὄψων πραγματείαν αὐτοὺς ἂν δέοι παρασκευάζειν· ἀλλʼ ἄτοπον.
And if they must labor through such things themselves, they would also need to prepare matters concerning the business of cooking; but that is absurd.
τὴν δʼ αὐτὴν ἀπορίαν ἔχει καὶ εἰ δύναται τὰ ἤθη βελτίω ποιεῖν· ταῦτα γὰρ τί δεῖ μανθάνειν αὐτούς,
And the same difficulty exists also if it can make characters better; for why do they need to learn these things themselves?