Humanitext Reader

Lucian · Dialogues of The Gods §22.1-22.2

Hera and Zeus on the Merits of Dionysus

Passage 22 of 25 · Greek

Summary

Hera criticizes Dionysus for his effeminacy and drunkenness, but Zeus defends him by citing his military exploits and divine punishments, arguing that the negative effects of wine lie in immoderate consumption rather than the drink itself.

§22.1ΗΡΑ Ἐγὼ μὲν ᾐσχυνόμην ἄν, ὦ Ζεῦ, εἴ μοι τοιοῦτος υἱὸς ἦν, θῆλυς οὕτω καὶ διεφθαρμένος ὑπὸ τῆς μέθης, μίτρᾳ μὲν ἀναδεδεμένος τὴν κόμην, τὰ πολλὰ δὲ μαινομέναις γυναιξὶ συνών, ἁβρότερος αὐτῶν ἐκείνων, ὑπὸ τυμπάνοις καὶ αὐλῷ καὶ κυμβάλοις χορεύων, καὶ ὅλως παντὶ μᾶλλον ἐοικὼς ἢ σοὶ τῷ πατρί.
HERA I should be ashamed, Zeus, if I had such a son, so effeminate and ruined by drunkenness, having his hair bound with a headband, spending most of his time with raving women, more delicate than those women themselves, dancing to hand-drums and flutes and cymbals, and in short, resembling anything else rather than you, his father.
ΖΕΥΣ Καὶ μὴν οὗτός γε ὁ θηλυμίτρης, ὁ ἁβρότερος τῶν γυναικῶν οὐ μόνον, ὦ Ἥρα, τὴν Λυδίαν ἐχειρώσατο καὶ τοὺς κατοικοῦντας τὸν Τμῶλον ἔλαβε καὶ Θρᾷκας ὑπηγάγετο, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἐπ' Ἰνδοὺς ἐλάσας τῷ γυναικείῳ τούτῳ στρατιωτικῷ τούς τε ἐλέφαντας εἷλε καὶ τῆς χώρας ἐκράτησε καὶ τὸν βασιλέα πρὸς ὀλίγον ἀντιστῆναι τολμήσαντα αἰχμάλωτον ἀπήγαγε, καὶ ταῦτα πάντα ἔπραξεν ὀρχούμενος ἅμα καὶ χορεύων θύρσοις χρώμενος κιττίνοις, μεθύων, ὡς φῄς, καὶ ἐνθεάζων.
ZEUS And yet this man with the feminine headband, who is more delicate not only than women, Hera, subdued Lydia and captured those who inhabit Tmolus and brought the Thracians under his sway, but also, having marched against the Indians with this womanish army, took their elephants and mastered their country, and led away captive the king who dared to resist for a little while. And he did all this while dancing and reveling, using ivy-wreathed thyrsi, drunk, as you say, and possessed by a god.
εἰ δέ τις ἐπεχείρησε λοιδορήσασθαι αὐτῷ ὑβρίσας ἐς τὴν τελετήν, καὶ τοῦτον ἐτιμωρήσατο ἢ καταδήσας τοῖς κλήμασιν ἢ διασπασθῆναι ποιήσας ὑπὸ τῆς μητρὸς ὥσπερ νεβρόν.
And if anyone attempted to mock him, insulting his rite, he punished him as well, either by binding him with vine-branches or by causing him to be torn to pieces by his mother like a fawn.
ὁρᾷς ὡς ἀνδρεῖα ταῦτα καὶ οὐκ ἀνάξια τοῦ πατρός;
Do you see how brave these deeds are and not unworthy of his father?
εἰ δὲ παιδιὰ καὶ τρυφὴ πρόσεστιν αὐτοῖς, οὐδεὶς φθόνος, καὶ μάλιστα εἰ λογίσαιτό τις, οἷος ἂν οὗτος νήφων ἦν, ὅπου ταῦτα μεθύων ποιεῖ.
And if playfulness and luxury belong to them, there is no cause for envy, especially if one should consider what this man would be when sober, seeing that he does these things when drunk.
§22.2ΗΡΑ Σύ μοι δοκεῖς ἐπαινέσεσθαι καὶ τὸ εὕρεμα αὐτοῦ, τὴν ἄμπελον καὶ τὸν οἶνον, καὶ ταῦτα ὁρῶν οἷα οἱ μεθυσθέντες ποιοῦσι σφαλλόμενοι καὶ πρὸς ὕβριν τρεπόμενοι καὶ ὅλως μεμηνότες ὑπὸ τοῦ ποτοῦ· τὸν γοῦν Ἰκάριον, ᾧ πρώτῳ ἔδωκεν τὸ κλῆμα, οἱ ξυμπόται αὐτοὶ διέφθειραν παίοντες ταῖς δικέλλαις.
HERA You seem to me about to praise even his invention, the vine and wine, and that too though you see what drunken men do, stumbling and turning to insolence and being utterly maddened by the drink; at any rate, Icarius, to whom he first gave the vine, was destroyed by his very drinking companions, who struck him with their mattocks.
ΖΕΥΣ Οὐδὲν τοῦτο φῄς·
ZEUS You say nothing to the point.
οὐ γάρ οἶνος ταῦτα οὐδὲ ὁ Διόνυσος ποιεῖ, τὸ δὲ ἄμετρον τῆς πόσεως καὶ τὸ πέρα τοῦ καλῶς ἔχοντος ἐμφορεῖσθαι τοῦ ἀκράτου.
For it is not wine nor Dionysus that does these things, but the immoderate drinking and the pouring in of unmixed wine beyond what is proper.
ὃς δ’ ἂν ἔμμετρα πίνῃ, ἱλαρώτερος μὲν καὶ ἡδίων γένοιτ' ἄν· οἷον δὲ ὁ Ἰκάριος ἔπαθεν, οὐδὲν ἂν ἐργάσαιτο οὐδένα τῶν ξυμποτῶν.
But whoever drinks in moderation would become more cheerful and pleasant; and he would do nothing to any of his drinking companions such as Icarius suffered.
ἀλλὰ σὺ ἔτι ζηλοτυπεῖν ἔοικας, ὦ Ἥρα, καὶ τῆς Σεμέλης μνημονεύειν, ἥ γε διαβάλλεις τοῦ Διονύσου τὰ κάλλιστα.
But you, Hera, seem to be still jealous and to remember Semele, since you slander the most beautiful gifts of Dionysus.

Notes

  1. 22.1Ἐγὼ μὲν ᾐσχυνόμην ἄν, ὦ Ζεῦ, εἴ μοι τοιοῦτος υἱὸς ἦν — A counterfactual condition referring to present or continuous past time. Hera indicates her hypothetical rejection of having such a son, emphasizing that Dionysus is not her own child.
  2. 22.1ἁβρότερος αὐτῶν ἐκείνων — Genitive of comparison after the comparative `ἁβρότερος`. `αὐτῶν ἐκείνων` refers to the preceding `μαινομέναις γυναιξὶ` (raving women), emphasizing that Dionysus appeared even more delicate than the fanatical women themselves.
  3. 22.1διασπασθῆναι ποιήσας ὑπὸ τῆς μητρὸς ὥσπερ νεβρόν — A causative construction with `ποιέω` and the infinitive `διασπασθῆναι`. The agent is expressed by `ὑπὸ τῆς μητρὸς`. This refers to the myth where Dionysus caused Pentheus to be torn apart by his own mother, Agave.
  4. 22.1οἷος ἂν οὗτος νήφων ἦν, ὅπου ταῦτα μεθύων ποιεῖ — `οἷος ἂν ... ἦν` is the apodosis of a counterfactual statement. The conjunction `ὅπου` here introduces a contrasting fact or premise ('since/seeing that'). It forms the core of Zeus's argument: 'since he does such things when drunk, imagine what he would be like if sober.'
  5. 22.2ἥ γε διαβάλλεις — The relative pronoun `ἥ` (with Hera implied in the second-person verb as the antecedent) combined with the intensive particle `γε`, meaning 'since you...' or 'inasmuch as you...'. This causal relative clause serves as the ground for Zeus's claim that Hera is still jealous of Semele.

Cite this passage

Lucian, Dialogues of The Gods §22.1-22.2. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0062.tlg068.humanitext-grc3:22.1-22.2

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