§7.793ΚΛ. οὐδὲν δεῖ σε, ὦ ξένε, Μέγιλλον ἀνερωτᾶν πότερος ἡμῶν ὀρθότερον εἴρηκεν· ἐγὼ γὰρ αὐτός σοι συγχωρῶ τὸν λύπης τε καὶ ἡδονῆς ἀκράτου βίον φεύγειν δεῖν πάντας, μέσον δέ τινα τέμνειν ἀεί.
CLIN.: There is no need at all, stranger, for you to ask Megillus which of us has spoken more correctly; for I myself concede to you that everyone must flee the life of unmixed pain and pleasure, and always cleave a middle path.
καλῶς τοίνυν εἴρηκάς τε καὶ ἀκήκοας ἅμα.
Therefore, you have both spoken well and at the same time heard my agreement.
ΑΘ. μάλα μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς, ὦ Κλεινία.
ATH.: Quite correctly indeed, Cleinias.
τόδε τοίνυν ἐπὶ τούτοις τρεῖς ὄντες διανοηθῶμεν.
Let us three then consider this next point in addition to these.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον;
CLIN.: What sort of point?
ΑΘ. ὅτι ταῦτʼ ἔστιν πάντα, ὅσα νῦν διεξερχόμεθα, τὰ καλούμενα ὑπὸ τῶν πολλῶν ἄγραφα νόμιμα· καὶ οὓς πατρίους νόμους ἐπονομάζουσιν, οὐκ ἄλλα ἐστὶν ἢ τὰ τοιαῦτα σύμπαντα.
ATH.: That all these things, which we are now going through in detail, are what are called by the many "unwritten customs"; and those which they name ancestral laws are nothing other than all such things taken together.
καὶ ἔτι γε ὁ νυνδὴ λόγος ἡμῖν ἐπιχυθείς, ὡς οὔτε νόμους δεῖ προσαγορεύειν αὐτὰ οὔτε ἄρρητα ἐᾶν, εἴρηται καλῶς·
And furthermore, the argument that just now flowed in upon us—that we should neither address them as laws nor leave them unspoken—was well spoken.
δεσμοὶ γὰρ οὗτοι πάσης εἰσὶν πολιτείας, μεταξὺ πάντων ὄντες τῶν ἐν γράμμασιν τεθέντων τε καὶ κειμένων καὶ τῶν ἔτι θησομένων, ἀτεχνῶς οἷον πάτρια καὶ παντάπασιν ἀρχαῖα νόμιμα, ἃ καλῶς μὲν τεθέντα καὶ ἐθισθέντα πάσῃ σωτηρίᾳ περικαλύψαντα ἔχει τοὺς τότε γραφέντας νόμους, ἂν δʼ ἐκτὸς τοῦ καλοῦ βαίνῃ πλημμελῶς, οἷον τεκτόνων ἐν οἰκοδομήμασιν ἐρείσματα ἐκ μέσου ὑπορρέοντα, συμπίπτειν εἰς ταὐτὸν ποιεῖ τὰ σύμπαντα, κεῖσθαί τε ἄλλα ὑφʼ ἑτέρων, αὐτά τε καὶ τὰ καλῶς ὕστερον ἐποικοδομηθέντα, τῶν ἀρχαίων ὑποπεσόντων.
For these are the bonds of every constitution, being in the midst of all those laws that have been set down and are established in writing, and those still to be set down, serving literally as ancestral and altogether ancient customs; which, when well established and made habitual, cover and protect with complete safety the then written laws; but if they depart from what is beautiful in a discordant manner, like builders' supports slipping out from the middle in buildings, they cause the whole structure to collapse into the same ruin, and both the laws themselves and those beautifully built upon them later lie fallen, because the ancient foundations have given way.
ἃ δὴ διανοουμένους ἡμᾶς, ὦ Κλεινία, σοὶ δεῖ τὴν πόλιν καινὴν οὖσαν πάντῃ συνδεῖν, μήτε μέγα μήτε σμικρὸν παραλιπόντας εἰς δύναμιν ὅσα νόμους ἢ ἔθη τις ἢ ἐπιτηδεύματα καλεῖ·
Thinking on these things, Cleinias, you must bind together your city, which is entirely new, omitting to the best of your power neither great nor small of all the things that anyone calls laws or customs or practices.
πᾶσι γὰρ τοῖς τοιούτοις πόλις συνδεῖται, ἄνευ δὲ ἀλλήλων ἑκάτερα τούτων οὐκ ἔστιν μόνιμα, ὥστε οὐ χρὴ θαυμάζειν ἐὰν ἡμῖν πολλὰ ἅμα καὶ σμικρὰ δοκούντων εἶναι νόμιμα ἢ καὶ ἐθίσματα ἐπιρρέοντα μακροτέρους ποιῇ τοὺς νόμους.
For by all such things a city is bound together, and neither of these two is lasting without the other; so we must not wonder if many customs or habits, appearing to be small, flow in and make our laws longer.
ΚΛ. ἀλλʼ ὀρθῶς σύ γε λέγεις, ἡμεῖς τε οὕτω διανοησόμεθα.
CLIN.: Indeed you speak correctly, and we shall think in this way.
ΑΘ. εἰς μὲν τοίνυν τὴν τοῦ τρίʼ ἔτη γεγονότος ἡλικίαν, κόρου καὶ κόρης, ταῦτα εἴ τις ἀκριβῶς ἀποτελοῖ καὶ μὴ παρέργως τοῖς εἰρημένοις χρῷτο, οὐ σμικρὰ εἰς ὠφελίαν γίγνοιτʼ ἂν τοῖς νεωστὶ τρεφομένοις·
ATH.: Now, up to the age of three years, for a boy and a girl, if one should precisely fulfill these things and use what has been said not as a secondary matter, it would result in no small benefit to the newly nurtured.
§7.794ΑΘ. τριετεῖ δὲ δὴ καὶ τετραετεῖ καὶ πενταετεῖ καὶ ἔτι ἑξετεῖ ἤθει ψυχῆς παιδιῶν δέον ἂν εἴη, τρυφῆς δʼ ἤδη παραλυτέον κολάζοντα, μὴ ἀτίμως, ἀλλʼ ὅπερ ἐπὶ τῶν δούλων γʼ ἐλέγομεν, τὸ μὴ μεθʼ ὕβρεως κολάζοντας ὀργὴν ἐμποιῆσαι δεῖν τοῖς κολασθεῖσιν μηδʼ ἀκολάστους ἐῶντας τρυφήν, ταὐτὸν δραστέον τοῦτό γε καὶ ἐπʼ ἐλευθέροισι.
ATH.: But for children of three, four, five, and even six years of age, there would be need of play for the character of their soul; but they must now be released from luxury by being punished—not in an ignominious way, but just as we were saying in the case of slaves, that we must not, by punishing with insolence, engender anger in those who are punished, nor yet allow them to be undisciplined in luxury; this same thing must be done also to free children.
παιδιαὶ δʼ εἰσὶν τοῖς τηλικούτοις αὐτοφυεῖς τινες, ἃς ἐπειδὰν συνέλθωσιν αὐτοὶ σχεδὸν ἀνευρίσκουσι.
And there are some natural plays for children of this age, which they almost find out for themselves when they come together.
συνιέναι δὲ εἰς τὰ κατὰ κώμας ἱερὰ δεῖ πάντα ἤδη τὰ τηλικαῦτα παιδία, ἀπὸ τριετοῦς μέχρι τῶν ἓξ ἐτῶν, κοινῇ τὰ τῶν κωμητῶν εἰς ταὐτὸν ἕκαστα·
And all children of this age, from three up to six years, must now assemble at the temples in each village, all the children of the villagers together in the same place.
τὰς δὲ τροφοὺς ἔτι τῶν τηλικούτων κοσμιότητός τε καὶ ἀκολασίας ἐπιμελεῖσθαι, τῶν δὲ τροφῶν αὐτῶν καὶ τῆς ἀγέλης συμπάσης, τῶν δώδεκα γυναικῶν μίαν ἐφʼ ἑκάστῃ τετάχθαι κοσμοῦσαν κατʼ ἐνιαυτὸν τῶν προειρημένων ἃς ἂν τάξωσιν οἱ νομοφύλακες.
And the senses of these children must still attend to their decorum and their lack of discipline; and to govern the nurses themselves and the whole flock, one of the twelve women—appointed annually from the aforementioned women by the guardians of the laws—must be stationed over each temple to maintain order.
ταύτας δὲ αἱρείσθωσαν μὲν αἱ τῶν γάμων κύριαι τῆς ἐπιμελείας, ἐξ ἑκάστης τῆς φυλῆς μίαν, ἥλικας αὑταῖς· ἡ δὲ καταστᾶσα ἀρχέτω φοιτῶσα εἰς τὸ ἱερὸν ἑκάστης ἡμέρας καὶ κολάζουσα ἀεὶ τὸν ἀδικοῦντα, δοῦλον μὲν καὶ δούλην καὶ ξένον καὶ ξένην αὐτὴ διά τινων τῆς πόλεως οἰκετῶν, πολίτην δὲ ἀμφισβητοῦντα μὲν τῇ κολάσει πρὸς τοὺς ἀστυνόμους ἐπὶ δίκην ἄγουσα, ἀναμφισβήτητον δὲ ὄντα καὶ τὸν πολίτην αὐτὴ κολαζέτω.
And let these women be chosen by those women who are in charge of marriage supervision, one from each tribe, of the same age as themselves; and let the woman who has been appointed rule, visiting the temple each day and always punishing anyone who does wrong: a male or female slave, or a male or female stranger, she may punish herself through some of the public servants of the city; but a citizen who disputes the punishment she shall bring before the city-wardens for trial, though if the citizen does not dispute it, she may punish him herself.
μετὰ δὲ τὸν ἑξέτη καὶ τὴν ἑξέτιν διακρινέσθω μὲν ἤδη τὸ γένος ἑκατέρων—κόροι μὲν μετὰ κόρων, παρθένοι δὲ ὡσαύτως μετʼ ἀλλήλων τὴν διατριβὴν ποιείσθωσαν—πρὸς δὲ τὰ μαθήματα τρέπεσθαι χρεὼν ἑκατέρους, τοὺς μὲν ἄρρενας ἐφʼ ἵππων διδασκάλους καὶ τόξων καὶ ἀκοντίων καὶ σφενδονήσεως, ἐὰν δέ πῃ συγχωρῶσιν, μέχρι γε μαθήσεως καὶ τὰ θήλεα, καὶ δὴ τά γε μάλιστα πρὸς τὴν τῶν ὅπλων χρείαν.
And after the age of six, for both boys and girls, let the gender of each now be separated—let boys spend their time with boys, and girls likewise with one another—and both must turn to their lessons, the males to teachers of riding, archery, javelin-throwing, and slinging; and if they agree to it in any way, even the females up to the point of learning these things, and indeed especially as regards the use of weapons.
τὸ γὰρ δὴ νῦν καθεστὸς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα ἀγνοεῖται παρὰ τοῖς πᾶσιν ὀλίγου.
For indeed, the current practice concerning such matters is misunderstood by almost everyone.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον;
CLIN.: What sort of practice?
ΑΘ. ὡς ἄρα τὰ δεξιὰ καὶ τὰ ἀριστερὰ διαφέροντά ἐσθʼ ἡμῶν φύσει πρὸς τὰς χρείας εἰς ἑκάστας τῶν πράξεων τὰ περὶ τὰς χεῖρας, ἐπεὶ τά γε περὶ πόδας τε καὶ τὰ κάτω τῶν μελῶν οὐδὲν διαφέροντα εἰς τοὺς πόνους φαίνεται· τὰ δὲ κατὰ χεῖρας ἀνοίᾳ τροφῶν καὶ μητέρων οἷον χωλοὶ γεγόναμεν ἕκαστοι.
ATH.: That, as it seems, our right and left hands are naturally different for our needs in each of our actions; whereas concerning our feet and lower limbs, they appear to differ not at all in labor; but regarding our hands, by the ignorance of nurses and mothers, we have each become as it were lame.
τῆς φύσεως γὰρ ἑκατέρων τῶν μελῶν σχεδὸν ἰσορροπούσης, αὐτοὶ διὰ τὰ ἔθη διάφορα αὐτὰ πεποιήκαμεν οὐκ ὀρθῶς χρώμενοι.
For though the nature of both limbs is almost balanced, we ourselves, through our habits, have made them different by not using them correctly.