§51ΤΙ. ταὐτὸν οὖν καὶ τῷ τὰ τῶν πάντων ἀεί τε ὄντων κατὰ πᾶν ἑαυτοῦ πολλάκις ἀφομοιώματα καλῶς μέλλοντι δέχεσθαι πάντων ἐκτὸς αὐτῷ προσήκει πεφυκέναι τῶν εἰδῶν.
TI. Therefore, the same also applies to that which is to receive well, repeatedly throughout the whole of itself, the likenesses of all things that always exist: it is proper for it to be by nature free from all forms.
διὸ δὴ τὴν τοῦ γεγονότος ὁρατοῦ καὶ πάντως αἰσθητοῦ μητέρα καὶ ὑποδοχὴν μήτε γῆν μήτε ἀέρα μήτε πῦρ μήτε ὕδωρ λέγωμεν, μήτε ὅσα ἐκ τούτων μήτε ἐξ ὧν ταῦτα γέγονεν· ἀλλʼ ἀνόρατον εἶδός τι καὶ ἄμορφον, πανδεχές, μεταλαμβάνον δὲ ἀπορώτατά πῃ τοῦ νοητοῦ καὶ δυσαλωτότατον αὐτὸ λέγοντες οὐ ψευσόμεθα.
Therefore, let us not call the mother and receptacle of what has come to be, which is visible and in every way perceptible, either earth or air or fire or water, nor any of the things that come from these or from which these have come to be; but if we speak of it as an invisible and formless class, all-receiving, and participating in some most baffling way in the intelligible, and most difficult to grasp, we shall not be speaking falsely.
καθʼ ὅσον δʼ ἐκ τῶν προειρημένων δυνατὸν ἐφικνεῖσθαι τῆς φύσεως αὐτοῦ, τῇδʼ ἄν τις ὀρθότατα λέγοι· πῦρ μὲν ἑκάστοτε αὐτοῦ τὸ πεπυρωμένον μέρος φαίνεσθαι, τὸ δὲ ὑγρανθὲν ὕδωρ, γῆν τε καὶ ἀέρα καθʼ ὅσον ἂν μιμήματα τούτων δέχηται.
But insofar as it is possible to attain to its nature from what has been said before, one would speak most correctly in this way: that the part of it which has been ignited appears each time as fire, and the part liquefied as water, and as earth and air insofar as it receives likenesses of these.
λόγῳ δὲ δὴ μᾶλλον τὸ τοιόνδε διοριζομένους περὶ αὐτῶν διασκεπτέον· ἆρα ἔστιν τι πῦρ αὐτὸ ἐφʼ ἑαυτοῦ καὶ πάντα περὶ ὧν ἀεὶ λέγομεν οὕτως αὐτὰ καθʼ αὑτὰ ὄντα ἕκαστα, ἢ ταῦτα ἅπερ καὶ βλέπομεν, ὅσα τε ἄλλα διὰ τοῦ σώματος αἰσθανόμεθα, μόνα ἐστὶν τοιαύτην ἔχοντα ἀλήθειαν, ἄλλα δὲ οὐκ ἔστι παρὰ ταῦτα οὐδαμῇ οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλὰ μάτην ἑκάστοτε εἶναί τί φαμεν εἶδος ἑκάστου νοητόν, τὸ δʼ οὐδὲν ἄρʼ ἦν πλὴν λόγος;
But we must examine this by determining it more fully through argument: is there such a thing as fire itself by itself, and do all those things which we always speak of in this way each exist itself by itself? Or are these very things which we also look at, and whatever else we perceive through the body, the only things that possess such truth, and are there no other things besides these in any way whatsoever, but is it in vain that we say each time that there is a certain intelligible form of each, whereas it was in fact nothing but a word?
οὔτε οὖν δὴ τὸ παρὸν ἄκριτον καὶ ἀδίκαστον ἀφέντα ἄξιον φάναι διισχυριζόμενον ἔχειν οὕτως, οὔτʼ ἐπὶ λόγου μήκει πάρεργον ἄλλο μῆκος ἐπεμβλητέον·
Therefore, it is neither right to dismiss the present issue undecided and unjudged, asserting dogmatically that things are so, nor should we superimpose another long digression onto an already long discourse.
εἰ δέ τις ὅρος ὁρισθεὶς μέγας διὰ βραχέων φανείη, τοῦτο μάλιστα ἐγκαιριώτατον γένοιτʼ ἄν.
If, however, some great definition, once defined, could be shown briefly, this would be most opportune.
ὧδε οὖν τήν γʼ ἐμὴν αὐτὸς τίθεμαι ψῆφον.
Here, then, is how I cast my own vote.
εἰ μὲν νοῦς καὶ δόξα ἀληθής ἐστον δύο γένη, παντάπασιν εἶναι καθʼ αὑτὰ ταῦτα, ἀναίσθητα ὑφʼ ἡμῶν εἴδη, νοούμενα μόνον· εἰ δʼ, ὥς τισιν φαίνεται, δόξα ἀληθὴς νοῦ διαφέρει τὸ μηδέν, πάνθʼ ὁπόσʼ αὖ διὰ τοῦ σώματος αἰσθανόμεθα θετέον βεβαιότατα.
If intellect and true opinion are two distinct classes, then these forms, imperceptible to us and objects of thought alone, absolutely exist by themselves; but if, as it appears to some, true opinion differs in no way from intellect, then we must posit all those things which we perceive through the body as most secure.
δύο δὴ λεκτέον ἐκείνω, διότι χωρὶς γεγόνατον ἀνομοίως τε ἔχετον.
Indeed, we must say that those two are distinct, because they come to be separately and are in different conditions.
τὸ μὲν γὰρ αὐτῶν διὰ διδαχῆς, τὸ δʼ ὑπὸ πειθοῦς ἡμῖν ἐγγίγνεται· καὶ τὸ μὲν ἀεὶ μετʼ ἀληθοῦς λόγου, τὸ δὲ ἄλογον· καὶ τὸ μὲν ἀκίνητον πειθοῖ, τὸ δὲ μεταπειστόν· καὶ τοῦ μὲν πάντα ἄνδρα μετέχειν φατέον, νοῦ δὲ θεούς, ἀνθρώπων δὲ γένος βραχύ τι.
For the one of them arises in us through instruction, the other through persuasion; and the one is always accompanied by true reason, while the other is irrational; and the one is unmoved by persuasion, whereas the other is alterable by persuasion; and of the latter, we must say that every man participates, but of intellect, only gods and some small class of men.
§52ΤΙ. τούτων δὲ οὕτως ἐχόντων ὁμολογητέον ἓν μὲν εἶναι τὸ κατὰ ταὐτὰ εἶδος ἔχον, ἀγέννητον καὶ ἀνώλεθρον, οὔτε εἰς ἑαυτὸ εἰσδεχόμενον ἄλλο ἄλλοθεν οὔτε αὐτὸ εἰς ἄλλο ποι ἰόν, ἀόρατον δὲ καὶ ἄλλως ἀναίσθητον, τοῦτο ὃ δὴ νόησις εἴληχεν ἐπισκοπεῖν·
TI. These things being so, we must agree that there is, first, that which has the self-same form, ungenerated and indestructible, neither receiving into itself anything else from elsewhere, nor itself entering into anything else anywhere, invisible and otherwise imperceptible—that which in fact intellect has been allotted to contemplate.
τὸ δὲ ὁμώνυμον ὅμοιόν τε ἐκείνῳ δεύτερον, αἰσθητόν, γεννητόν, πεφορημένον ἀεί, γιγνόμενόν τε ἔν τινι τόπῳ καὶ πάλιν ἐκεῖθεν ἀπολλύμενον, δόξῃ μετʼ αἰσθήσεως περιληπτόν·
Second is that which shares its name and is similar to it, perceptible, generated, always in motion, coming to be in some place and again perishing from there, graspable by opinion accompanied by perception.
τρίτον δὲ αὖ γένος ὂν τὸ τῆς χώρας ἀεί, φθορὰν οὐ προσδεχόμενον, ἕδραν δὲ παρέχον ὅσα ἔχει γένεσιν πᾶσιν, αὐτὸ δὲ μετʼ ἀναισθησίας ἁπτὸν λογισμῷ τινι νόθῳ, μόγις πιστόν, πρὸς ὃ δὴ καὶ ὀνειροπολοῦμεν βλέποντες καί φαμεν ἀναγκαῖον εἶναί που τὸ ὂν ἅπαν ἔν τινι τόπῳ καὶ κατέχον χώραν τινά, τὸ δὲ μήτʼ ἐν γῇ μήτε που κατʼ οὐρανὸν οὐδὲν εἶναι.
And third is another class, that of space, which exists always and does not admit destruction, but provides a seat for all things that have generation, and is itself graspable without perception by a kind of bastard reasoning, barely trustworthy; looking toward which we indeed dream and say that it is necessary for everything that exists to be somewhere in some place and to occupy some space, and that what is neither on earth nor anywhere in heaven is nothing.
ταῦτα δὴ πάντα καὶ τούτων ἄλλα ἀδελφὰ καὶ περὶ τὴν ἄυπνον καὶ ἀληθῶς φύσιν ὑπάρχουσαν ὑπὸ ταύτης τῆς ὀνειρώξεως οὐ δυνατοὶ γιγνόμεθα ἐγερθέντες διοριζόμενοι τἀληθὲς λέγειν, ὡς εἰκόνι μέν, ἐπείπερ οὐδʼ αὐτὸ τοῦτο ἐφʼ ᾧ γέγονεν ἑαυτῆς ἐστιν, ἑτέρου δέ τινος ἀεὶ φέρεται φάντασμα, διὰ ταῦτα ἐν ἑτέρῳ προσήκει τινὶ γίγνεσθαι, οὐσίας ἁμωσγέπως ἀντεχομένην, ἢ μηδὲν τὸ παράπαν αὐτὴν εἶναι, τῷ δὲ ὄντως ὄντι βοηθὸς ὁ διʼ ἀκριβείας ἀληθὴς λόγος, ὡς ἕως ἄν τι τὸ μὲν ἄλλο ᾖ, τὸ δὲ ἄλλο, οὐδέτερον ἐν οὐδετέρῳ ποτὲ γενόμενον ἓν ἅμα ταὐτὸν καὶ δύο γενήσεσθον.
Because of all these and other kindred dreams, even concerning the waking and truly existing nature, we are unable, when awake, to distinguish and speak the truth: that for an image—since not even that very thing on which it has come to be belongs to itself, but it is always carried along as a phantom of something else—it is proper for this reason to come to be in something else, clinging to existence in some way or other, or else be nothing at all; whereas for that which really exists, the strictly true argument is an ally: that as long as one thing is one thing and another is another, neither of them, by coming to be in the other, will ever become both one and the same, and at the same time two.
οὗτος μὲν οὖν δὴ παρὰ τῆς ἐμῆς ψήφου λογισθεὶς ἐν κεφαλαίῳ δεδόσθω λόγος, ὄν τε καὶ χώραν καὶ γένεσιν εἶναι, τρία τριχῇ, καὶ πρὶν οὐρανὸν γενέσθαι·
Let this, then, be the account calculated and given in brief as my own vote: that being, space, and becoming exist, as three distinct things in three ways, even before the heaven came to be.
τὴν δὲ δὴ γενέσεως τιθήνην ὑγραινομένην καὶ πυρουμένην καὶ τὰς γῆς τε καὶ ἀέρος μορφὰς δεχομένην, καὶ ὅσα ἄλλα τούτοις πάθη συνέπεται πάσχουσαν, παντοδαπὴν μὲν ἰδεῖν φαίνεσθαι, διὰ δὲ τὸ μήθʼ ὁμοίων δυνάμεων μήτε ἰσορρόπων ἐμπίμπλασθαι κατʼ οὐδὲν αὐτῆς ἰσορροπεῖν, ἀλλʼ ἀνωμάλως πάντῃ ταλαντουμένην σείεσθαι μὲν ὑπʼ ἐκείνων αὐτήν, κινουμένην δʼ αὖ πάλιν ἐκεῖνα σείειν·
And indeed, the nurse of becoming, being liquefied and ignited and receiving the forms of earth and air, and experiencing whatever other conditions accompany these, appears to look all-varied; but because it is filled with powers that are neither similar nor balanced, it is in no part balanced, but being unevenly swayed in every direction, it is shaken by those things, and being moved, in its turn shakes them.