§3.412ἐπὶ δὴ δύʼ ὄντε τούτω, ὡς ἔοικε, δύο τέχνα θεὸν ἔγωγʼ ἄν τινα φαίην δεδωκέναι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, μουσικήν τε καὶ γυμναστικὴν ἐπὶ τὸ θυμοειδὲς καὶ τὸ φιλόσοφον, οὐκ ἐπὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα, εἰ μὴ εἰ πάρεργον, ἀλλʼ ἐπʼ ἐκείνω, ὅπως ἂν ἀλλήλοιν συναρμοσθῆτον ἐπιτεινομένω καὶ ἀνιεμένω μέχρι τοῦ προσήκοντος.
"Then indeed, since these two exist, as it seems, I would say some god has given two arts to humans, music and gymnastics, for the spirited and the philosophical [parts of the soul], not for soul and body, except perhaps as a side-effect, but for those two, so that they may be harmonized with each other, being tensioned and relaxed to the proper extent." "So indeed it seems," he said.
καὶ γὰρ ἔοικεν, ἔφη. τὸν κάλλιστʼ ἄρα μουσικῇ γυμναστικὴν κεραννύντα καὶ μετριώτατα τῇ ψυχῇ προσφέροντα, τοῦτον ὀρθότατʼ ἂν φαῖμεν εἶναι τελέως μουσικώτατον καὶ εὐαρμοστότατον, πολὺ μᾶλλον ἢ τὸν τὰς χορδὰς ἀλλήλαις συνιστάντα.
"The one, then, who mixes gymnastics with music in the most beautiful way and applies them to the soul in the most measured degree, we would say most correctly that this person is completely the most musical and best harmonized, much more than the one who tunes strings to one another." "Reasonably so, Socrates," he said.
εἰκότως γʼ, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες. οὐκοῦν καὶ ἐν τῇ πόλει ἡμῖν, ὦ Γλαύκων, δεήσει τοῦ τοιούτου τινὸς ἀεὶ ἐπιστάτου, εἰ μέλλει ἡ πολιτεία σῴζεσθαι; δεήσει μέντοι ὡς οἷόν τέ γε μάλιστα. οἱ μὲν δὴ τύποι τῆς παιδείας τε καὶ τροφῆς οὗτοι ἂν εἶεν.
"Must there not then also in our city, Glaucon, always be some such overseer of this kind, if the constitution is to be preserved?" "There must indeed, as much as possible." "These then would be the patterns of education and nurture.
χορείας γὰρ τί ἄν τις διεξίοι τῶν τοιούτων καὶ θήρας τε καὶ κυνηγέσια καὶ γυμνικοὺς ἀγῶνας καὶ ἱππικούς;
For why should anyone go through dances of such people, and hunts and chases, and gymnastic contests and horse races?
σχεδὸν γάρ τι δῆλα δὴ ὅτι τούτοις ἑπόμενα δεῖ αὐτὰ εἶναι, καὶ οὐκέτι χαλεπὰ εὑρεῖν. ἴσως, ἦ δʼ ὅς, οὐ χαλεπά. εἶεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ· τὸ δὴ μετὰ τοῦτο τί ἂν ἡμῖν διαιρετέον εἴη;
For it is almost clear that these must follow those, and are no longer difficult to find." "Perhaps," he said, "not difficult." "Well," I said; "what would be the next thing for us to divide?
ἆρʼ οὐκ αὐτῶν τούτων οἵτινες ἄρξουσί τε καὶ ἄρξονται; τί μήν; οὐκοῦν ὅτι μὲν πρεσβυτέρους τοὺς ἄρχοντας δεῖ εἶναι, νεωτέρους δὲ τοὺς ἀρχομένους, δῆλον; δῆλον. καὶ ὅτι γε τοὺς ἀρίστους αὐτῶν; καὶ τοῦτο. οἱ δὲ γεωργῶν ἄριστοι ἆρʼ οὐ γεωργικώτατοι γίγνονται; ναί. νῦν δʼ, ἐπειδὴ φυλάκων αὐτοὺς ἀρίστους δεῖ εἶναι, ἆρʼ οὐ φυλακικωτάτους πόλεως; ναί. οὐκοῦν φρονίμους τε εἰς τοῦτο δεῖ ὑπάρχειν καὶ δυνατοὺς καὶ ἔτι κηδεμόνας τῆς πόλεως; ἔστι ταῦτα. κήδοιτο δέ γʼ ἄν τις μάλιστα τούτου ὃ τυγχάνοι φιλῶν. ἀνάγκη. καὶ μὴν τοῦτό γʼ ἂν μάλιστα φιλοῖ, ᾧ συμφέρειν ἡγοῖτο τὰ αὐτὰ καὶ ἑαυτῷ καὶ ἐκείνου μὲν εὖ πράττοντος οἴοιτο συμβαίνειν καὶ ἑαυτῷ εὖ πράττειν, μὴ δέ, τοὐναντίον. οὕτως, ἔφη.
Is it not from these very persons who will rule and who will be ruled?" "How not?" "Is it not clear then that the rulers must be older, and the ruled younger?" "Clear." "And that they must be the best among them?" "This too." "Do not the best of farmers become the most skilled in farming?" "Yes." "And now, since they must be the best of guardians, must they not be the most guarding of the city?" "Yes." "Must they not then be wise in this, and capable, and further, caring for the city?" "This is so." "And one would care most for that which he happens to love." "Inevitably." "And indeed he would love this most, for which he thinks the same things are advantageous as for himself, and when that is doing well, he thinks it happens that he himself does well, and if not, the opposite." "So it is," he said.
ἐκλεκτέον ἄρʼ ἐκ τῶν ἄλλων φυλάκων τοιούτους ἄνδρας, οἳ ἂν σκοποῦσιν ἡμῖν μάλιστα φαίνωνται παρὰ πάντα τὸν βίον, ὃ μὲν ἂν τῇ πόλει ἡγήσωνται συμφέρειν, πάσῃ προθυμίᾳ ποιεῖν, ὃ δʼ ἂν μή, μηδενὶ τρόπῳ πρᾶξαι ἂν ἐθέλειν. ἐπιτήδειοι γάρ, ἔφη.
"We must then select from the other guardians such men as, when we observe them, seem to us most of all through all their life to do with all eagerness what they believe to be advantageous to the city, and to be unwilling by any means to do what is not." "They are indeed suitable," he said.
δοκεῖ δή μοι τηρητέον αὐτοὺς εἶναι ἐν ἁπάσαις ταῖς ἡλικίαις, εἰ φυλακικοί εἰσι τούτου τοῦ δόγματος καὶ μήτε γοητευόμενοι μήτε βιαζόμενοι ἐκβάλλουσιν ἐπιλανθανόμενοι δόξαν τὴν τοῦ ποιεῖν δεῖν ἃ τῇ πόλει βέλτιστα. τίνα, ἔφη, λέγεις τὴν ἐκβολήν;
"It seems to me, then, that we must watch them in all ages, whether they are guardians of this belief, and neither by being enchanted nor by being forced do they cast out, through forgetting, the opinion that one must do what is best for the city." "What casting out do you mean?" he said.
§3.413ἐγώ σοι, ἔφην, ἐρῶ.
"I will tell you," I said.
φαίνεταί μοι δόξα ἐξιέναι ἐκ διανοίας ἢ ἑκουσίως ἢ ἀκουσίως, ἑκουσίως μὲν ἡ ψευδὴς τοῦ μεταμανθάνοντος, ἀκουσίως δὲ πᾶσα ἡ ἀληθής. τὸ μὲν τῆς ἑκουσίου, ἔφη, μανθάνω, τὸ δὲ τῆς ἀκουσίου δέομαι μαθεῖν.
"It seems to me that an opinion departs from the intellect either voluntarily or involuntarily: voluntarily, the false opinion from the one who changes his mind; involuntarily, every true opinion." "The case of the voluntary," he said, "I understand, but of the involuntary I need to learn." "What?
τί δέ; οὐ καὶ σὺ ἡγῇ, ἔφην ἐγώ, τῶν μὲν ἀγαθῶν ἀκουσίως στέρεσθαι τοὺς ἀνθρώπους, τῶν δὲ κακῶν ἑκουσίως;
Do you not also think," I said, "that humans are deprived of good things involuntarily, but of bad things voluntarily?
ἢ οὐ τὸ μὲν ἐψεῦσθαι τῆς ἀληθείας κακόν, τὸ δὲ ἀληθεύειν ἀγαθόν;
Or is it not a bad thing to be deceived about the truth, and a good thing to possess the truth?
ἢ οὐ τὸ τὰ ὄντα δοξάζειν ἀληθεύειν δοκεῖ σοι εἶναι; ἀλλʼ, ἦ δʼ ὅς, ὀρθῶς λέγεις, καί μοι δοκοῦσιν ἄκοντες ἀληθοῦς δόξης στερίσκεσθαι. οὐκοῦν κλαπέντες ἢ γοητευθέντες ἢ βιασθέντες τοῦτο πάσχουσιν; οὐδὲ νῦν, ἔφη, μανθάνω. τραγικῶς, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, κινδυνεύω λέγειν.
Or does it not seem to you that to believe what is is to possess the truth?" "Yes," he said, "you speak correctly, and they seem to me to be deprived of a true opinion involuntarily." "Do they not suffer this then by being stolen, or enchanted, or forced?" "Not even now," he said, "do I understand." "I am likely," I said, "speaking like a tragic poet.
κλαπέντας μὲν γὰρ τοὺς μεταπεισθέντας λέγω καὶ τοὺς ἐπιλανθανομένους, ὅτι τῶν μὲν χρόνος, τῶν δὲ λόγος ἐξαιρούμενος λανθάνει· νῦν γάρ που μανθάνεις; ναί. τοὺς τοίνυν βιασθέντας λέγω οὓς ἂν ὀδύνη τις ἢ ἀλγηδὼν μεταδοξάσαι ποιήσῃ. καὶ τοῦτʼ, ἔφη, ἔμαθον, καὶ ὀρθῶς λέγεις. τοὺς μὴν γοητευθέντας, ὡς ἐγᾦμαι, κἂν σὺ φαίης εἶναι οἳ ἂν μεταδοξάσωσιν ἢ ὑφʼ ἡδονῆς κηληθέντες ἢ ὑπὸ φόβου τι δείσαντες. ἔοικε γάρ, ἦ δʼ ὅς, γοητεύειν πάντα ὅσα ἀπατᾷ. ὃ τοίνυν ἄρτι ἔλεγον, ζητητέον τίνες ἄριστοι φύλακες τοῦ παρʼ αὑτοῖς δόγματος, τοῦτο ὡς ποιητέον ὃ ἂν τῇ πόλει ἀεὶ δοκῶσι βέλτιστον εἶναι.
For I call 'stolen' those who are persuaded to change their minds and those who forget, because from the latter time, and from the former argument, taking away, escapes notice; now surely you understand?" "Yes." "Then I call 'forced' those whom some pain or grief makes change their opinion." "And this," he said, "I have understood, and you speak correctly." "And the 'enchanted,' as I think, you too would say are those who change their opinion either being charmed by pleasure or fearing something under fear." "For it seems," he said, "that everything that deceives enchants." "That, then, which I was saying just now: we must seek who are the best guardians of their belief within themselves, that they must do whatever they always think is best for the city.
τηρητέον δὴ εὐθὺς ἐκ παίδων προθεμένοις ἔργα ἐν οἷς ἄν τις τὸ τοιοῦτον μάλιστα ἐπιλανθάνοιτο καὶ ἐξαπατῷτο, καὶ τὸν μὲν μνήμονα καὶ δυσεξαπάτητον ἐγκριτέον, τὸν δὲ μὴ ἀποκριτέον. ἦ γάρ; ναί.
We must indeed watch them straight from childhood, proposing deeds in which one would most of all forget such a thing and be deceived, and the one who remembers and is hard to deceive we must select, but the other we must reject.
καὶ πόνους γε αὖ καὶ ἀλγηδόνας καὶ ἀγῶνας αὐτοῖς θετέον, ἐν οἷς ταὐτὰ ταῦτα τηρητέον. ὀρθῶς, ἔφη.
Is it not so?" "Yes." "And also labors and pains and contests we must set for them, in which these same things must be watched." "Correct," he said.
οὐκοῦν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, καὶ τρίτου εἴδους τούτοις γοητείας ἅμιλλαν ποιητέον, καὶ θεατέον—ὥσπερ τοὺς πώλους ἐπὶ τοὺς ψόφους τε καὶ θορύβους ἄγοντες σκοποῦσιν εἰ φοβεροί, οὕτω νέους ὄντας εἰς δείματʼ ἄττα κομιστέον καὶ εἰς ἡδονὰς αὖ μεταβλητέον, βασανίζοντας πολὺ μᾶλλον ἢ χρυσὸν ἐν πυρί—εἰ δυσγοήτευτος καὶ εὐσχήμων ἐν πᾶσι φαίνεται, φύλαξ αὑτοῦ ὢν ἀγαθὸς καὶ μουσικῆς ἧς ἐμάνθανεν, εὔρυθμόν τε καὶ εὐάρμοστον ἑαυτὸν ἐν πᾶσι τούτοις παρέχων, οἷος δὴ ἂν ὢν καὶ ἑαυτῷ καὶ πόλει χρησιμώτατος εἴη.
"Must we not then," I said, "also make a contest of a third kind of enchantment for them, and observe—just as they lead colts to noises and tumults to see if they are fearful, so we must bring them, while they are young, into certain terrors, and again change them into pleasures, testing them much more than gold in fire—to see if he appears hard to enchant and graceful in all things, being a good guardian of himself and of the music he learned, showing himself rhythmic and harmonious in all these things, such as indeed being, he would be most useful to himself and to the city."