§91ΣΩ. καλῶς λέγεις.
SOC. You speak well.
νῦν τοίνυν ἔξεστί σε μετʼ ἐμοῦ κοινῇ βουλεύεσθαι περὶ τοῦ ξένου τουτουῒ Μένωνος.
Now, therefore, you can deliberate in common with me concerning this guest here, Meno.
οὗτος γάρ, ὦ Ἄνυτε, πάλαι λέγει πρός με ὅτι ἐπιθυμεῖ ταύτης τῆς σοφίας καὶ ἀρετῆς ᾗ οἱ ἄνθρωποι τάς τε οἰκίας καὶ τὰς πόλεις καλῶς διοικοῦσι, καὶ τοὺς γονέας τοὺς αὑτῶν θεραπεύουσι, καὶ πολίτας καὶ ξένους ὑποδέξασθαί τε καὶ ἀποπέμψαι ἐπίστανται ἀξίως ἀνδρὸς ἀγαθοῦ.
For he, Anytus, has long been telling me that he desires this wisdom and virtue by which men manage both their households and cities well, and care for their own parents, and know how to welcome and send away both citizens and guests in a manner worthy of a good man.
ταύτην οὖν τὴν ἀρετὴν σκόπει παρὰ τίνας ἂν πέμποντες αὐτὸν ὀρθῶς πέμποιΜΕΝ. ἢ δῆλον δὴ κατὰ τὸν ἄρτι λόγον ὅτι παρὰ τούτους τοὺς ὑπισχνουμένους ἀρετῆς διδασκάλους εἶναι καὶ ἀποφήναντας αὑτοὺς κοινοὺς τῶν Ἑλλήνων τῷ βουλομένῳ μανθάνειν, μισθὸν τούτου ταξαμένους τε καὶ πραττομένους;
Therefore, consider concerning this virtue to which teachers we would send him to send him rightly. Or is it indeed clear, according to the recent argument, that it should be to those who promise to be teachers of virtue and have declared themselves as common teachers to any of the Greeks who wish to learn, having set and charged a fee for this?
ΑΝ. καὶ τίνας λέγεις τούτους, ὦ Σώκρατες;
ANY. And whom do you mean by these, Socrates?
ΣΩ. οἶσθα δήπου καὶ σὺ ὅτι οὗτοί εἰσιν οὓς οἱ ἄνθρωποι καλοῦσι σοφιστάς.
SOC. Surely you too know that these are those whom people call sophists.
ΑΝ. Ἡράκλεις, εὐφήμει, ὦ Σώκρατες.
ANY. By Heracles, speak words of good omen, Socrates!
μηδένα τῶν γʼ ἐμῶν μήτε οἰκείων μήτε φίλων, μήτε ἀστὸν μήτε ξένον, τοιαύτη μανία λάβοι, ὥστε παρὰ τούτους ἐλθόντα λωβηθῆναι, ἐπεὶ οὗτοί γε φανερά ἐστι λώβη τε καὶ διαφθορὰ τῶν συγγιγνομένων.
May no one of my relatives or friends, whether citizen or guest, be seized by such madness as to go to these people and be ruined, since these men are a manifest ruin and corruption to those who associate with them.
ΣΩ. πῶς λέγεις, ὦ Ἄνυτε;
SOC. How do you mean, Anytus?
οὗτοι ἄρα μόνοι τῶν ἀντιποιουμένων τι ἐπίστασθαι εὐεργετεῖν τοσοῦτον τῶν ἄλλων διαφέρουσιν, ὅσον οὐ μόνον οὐκ ὠφελοῦσιν, ὥσπερ οἱ ἄλλοι, ὅτι ἄν τις αὐτοῖς παραδῷ, ἀλλὰ καὶ τὸ ἐναντίον διαφθείρουσιν;
Do these men, then, alone among those who claim to know how to do good, differ so much from the others, that they not only do not benefit, as the others do, whatever one hands over to them, but even, on the contrary, corrupt it?
καὶ τούτων φανερῶς χρήματα ἀξιοῦσι πράττεσθαι;
And for this do they openly claim the right to charge money?
ἐγὼ μὲν οὖν οὐκ ἔχω ὅπως σοι πιστεύσω· οἶδα γὰρ ἄνδρα ἕνα Πρωταγόραν πλείω χρήματα κτησάμενον ἀπὸ ταύτης τῆς σοφίας ἢ Φειδίαν τε, ὃς οὕτω περιφανῶς καλὰ ἔργα ἠργάζετο, καὶ ἄλλους δέκα τῶν ἀνδριαντοποιῶν.
For my part, I do not know how I can believe you; for I know of one man, Protagoras, who acquired more wealth from this wisdom than Pheidias, who produced such conspicuously beautiful works, and ten other sculptors besides.
καίτοι τέρας λέγεις εἰ οἱ μὲν τὰ ὑποδήματα ἐργαζόμενοι τὰ παλαιὰ καὶ τὰ ἱμάτια ἐξακούμενοι οὐκ ἂν δύναιντο λαθεῖν τριάκονθʼ ἡμέρας μοχθηρότερα ἀποδιδόντες ἢ παρέλαβον τὰ ἱμάτιά τε καὶ ὑποδήματα, ἀλλʼ εἰ τοιαῦτα ποιοῖεν, ταχὺ ἂν τῷ λιμῷ ἀποθάνοιεν, Πρωταγόρας δὲ ἄρα ὅλην τὴν Ἑλλάδα ἐλάνθανεν διαφθείρων τοὺς συγγιγνομένους καὶ μοχθηροτέρους ἀποπέμπων ἢ παρελάμβανεν πλέον ἢ τετταράκοντα ἔτη— οἶμαι γὰρ αὐτὸν ἀποθανεῖν ἐγγὺς καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα ἔτη γεγονότα, τετταράκοντα δὲ ἐν τῇ τέχνῃ ὄντα—
And yet you speak of a marvel, if those who work on old shoes and mend clothes could not escape notice for thirty days returning the clothes and shoes in a worse condition than they received them, but if they did such things, they would quickly die of hunger, whereas Protagoras, it seems, escaped the notice of the whole of Greece corrupting those who associated with him and sending them away worse than he received them for more than forty years—for I believe he died when he was nearly seventy years old, having been forty years in his art— SOC.
§92ΣΩ. καὶ ἐν ἅπαντι τῷ χρόνῳ τούτῳ ἔτι εἰς τὴν ἡμέραν ταυτηνὶ εὐδοκιμῶν οὐδὲν πέπαυται, καὶ οὐ μόνον Πρωταγόρας, ἀλλὰ καὶ ἄλλοι πάμπολλοι, οἱ μὲν πρότερον γεγονότες ἐκείνου, οἱ δὲ καὶ νῦν ἔτι ὄντες.
And during all this time, even to this very day, he has never ceased to be held in high repute; and not only Protagoras, but also very many others, some born before him, and others still existing even now.
πότερον δὴ οὖν φῶμεν κατὰ τὸν σὸν λόγον εἰδότας αὐτοὺς ἐξαπατᾶν καὶ λωβᾶσθαι τοὺς νέους, ἢ λεληθέναι καὶ ἑαυτούς;
Shall we then say, according to your argument, that they knowingly deceive and ruin the young, or that they escape their own notice too?
καὶ οὕτω μαίνεσθαι ἀξιώσομεν τούτους, οὓς ἔνιοί φασι σοφωτάτους ἀνθρώπων εἶναι;
And shall we deem them to be so mad, whom some say are the wisest of men?
ΑΝ. πολλοῦ γε δέουσι μαίνεσθαι, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀλλὰ πολὺ μᾶλλον οἱ τούτοις διδόντες ἀργύριον τῶν νέων, τούτων δʼ ἔτι μᾶλλον οἱ τούτοις ἐπιτρέποντες, οἱ προσήκοντες, πολὺ δὲ μάλιστα πάντων αἱ πόλεις, ἐῶσαι αὐτοὺς εἰσαφικνεῖσθαι καὶ οὐκ ἐξελαύνουσαι, εἴτε τις ξένος ἐπιχειρεῖ τοιοῦτόν τι ποιεῖν εἴτε ἀστός.
ANY. They are far indeed from being mad, Socrates, but much more so are those of the young who give them money, and still more than these, those who entrust them to them, their relatives, and far most of all the cities, which allow them to enter and do not expel them, whether some guest attempts to do such a thing or a citizen.
ΣΩ. πότερον δέ, ὦ Ἄνυτε, ἠδίκηκέ τίς σε τῶν σοφιστῶν, ἢ τί οὕτως αὐτοῖς χαλεπὸς εἶ;
SOC. But has any of the sophists wronged you, Anytus, or why are you so harsh towards them?
ΑΝ. οὐδὲ μὰ Δία ἔγωγε συγγέγονα πώποτε αὐτῶν οὐδενί, οὐδʼ ἂν ἄλλον ἐάσαιμι τῶν ἐμῶν οὐδένα.
ANY. No, by Zeus, I myself have never associated with any of them, nor would I allow any of my people to do so.
ΣΩ. ἄπειρος ἄρʼ εἶ παντάπασι τῶν ἀνδρῶν;
SOC. Are you then completely without experience of the men?
ΑΝ. καὶ εἴην γε.
ANY. And may I remain so indeed.
ΣΩ. πῶς οὖν ἄν, ὦ δαιμόνιε, εἰδείης περὶ τούτου τοῦ πράγματος, εἴτε τι ἀγαθὸν ἔχει ἐν αὑτῷ εἴτε φλαῦρον, οὗ παντάπασιν ἄπειρος εἴης;
SOC. How then, my strange friend, could you know about this matter, whether it has any good or bad in it, of which you are completely without experience?
ΑΝ. ῥᾳδίως·
ANY.
τούτους γοῦν οἶδα οἵ εἰσιν, εἴτʼ οὖν ἄπειρος αὐτῶν εἰμι εἴτε μή.
Easily; at any rate I know who these men are, whether I have experience of them or not.
ΣΩ. μάντις εἶ ἴσως, ὦ Ἄνυτε·
SOC.
ἐπεὶ ὅπως γε ἄλλως οἶσθα τούτων πέρι, ἐξ ὧν αὐτὸς λέγεις θαυμάζοιμʼ ἄν.
Perhaps you are a prophet, Anytus; since how else you know about these things, from what you say yourself, I would wonder.
ἀλλὰ γὰρ οὐ τούτους ἐπιζητοῦμεν τίνες εἰσίν, παρʼ οὓς ἂν Μένων ἀφικόμενος μοχθηρὸς γένοιτο—οὗτοι μὲν γάρ, εἰ σὺ βούλει, ἔστων οἱ σοφισταί—ἀλλὰ δὴ ἐκείνους εἰπὲ ἡμῖν, καὶ τὸν πατρικὸν τόνδε ἑταῖρον εὐεργέτησον φράσας αὐτῷ παρὰ τίνας ἀφικόμενος ἐν τοσαύτῃ πόλει τὴν ἀρετὴν ἣν νυνδὴ ἐγὼ διῆλθον γένοιτʼ ἂν ἄξιος λόγου.
But indeed, we are not searching for those people who they are, by going to whom Meno would become corrupt—for let these, if you wish, be the sophists—but tell us those others, and do a service to this hereditary friend here by telling him to which people in so great a city he might go to become worthy of account in the virtue which I have just described.
ΑΝ. τί δὲ αὐτῷ οὐ σὺ ἔφρασας;
ANY. Why did you not tell him yourself?
ΣΩ. ἀλλʼ οὓς μὲν ἐγὼ ᾤμην διδασκάλους τούτων εἶναι, εἶπον, ἀλλὰ τυγχάνω οὐδὲν λέγων, ὡς σὺ φῄς· καὶ ἴσως τὶ λέγεις.
SOC. But I did mention those whom I thought to be teachers of these things, but I happen to be talking nonsense, as you say; and perhaps you say something.
ἀλλὰ σὺ δὴ ἐν τῷ μέρει αὐτῷ εἰπὲ παρὰ τίνας ἔλθῃ Ἀθηναίων· εἰπὲ ὄνομα ὅτου βούλει.
But you, in your turn, tell him to which of the Athenians he should go; speak the name of anyone you wish.
ΑΝ. τί δὲ ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου ὄνομα δεῖ ἀκοῦσαι;
ANY. Why is there a need to hear the name of one man?
ὅτῳ γὰρ ἂν ἐντύχῃ Ἀθηναίων τῶν καλῶν κἀγαθῶν, οὐδεὶς ἔστιν ὃς οὐ βελτίω αὐτὸν ποιήσει ἢ οἱ σοφισταί, ἐάνπερ ἐθέλῃ πείθεσθαι.
For of the gentlemanly Athenians, whomever he meets, there is no one who will not make him better than the sophists, if indeed he is willing to obey.