§273ΣΩ. πάλιν οὖν ἐκαθεζόμην, καὶ ὀλίγῳ ὕστερον εἰσέρχεσθον τούτω—ὅ τʼ Εὐθύδημος καὶ ὁ Διονυσόδωρος—καὶ ἄλλοι μαθηταὶ ἅμα αὖ πολλοὶ ἐμοὶ δοκεῖν· εἰσελθόντε δὲ περιπατείτην ἐν τῷ καταστέγῳ δρόμῳ.
SOCRATES: So I sat down again, and a little later these two entered — Euthydemus and Dionysodorus — and with them also many other pupils, as it seemed to me; having entered, they were walking around in the covered racetrack.
καὶ οὔπω τούτω δύʼ ἢ τρεῖς δρόμους περιεληλυθότε ἤστην, καὶ εἰσέρχεται Κλεινίας, ὃν σὺ φῂς πολὺ ἐπιδεδωκέναι, ἀληθῆ λέγων·
And they had not yet gone around two or three laps when Clinias entered, the one who you say has grown so much, speaking the truth.
ὄπισθεν δὲ αὐτοῦ ἐρασταὶ πάνυ πολλοί τε καὶ ἄλλοι καὶ Κτήσιππος, νεανίσκος τις Παιανιεύς, μάλα καλός τε κἀγαθὸς τὴν φύσιν, ὅσον μὴ ὑβριστὴς διὰ τὸ νέος εἶναι.
And behind him came very many lovers and others, including Ctesippus, a young man of Paiania, extremely handsome and of noble nature, except for being somewhat insolent because of being young.
ἰδὼν οὖν με ὁ Κλεινίας ἀπὸ τῆς εἰσόδου μόνον καθήμενον, ἄντικρυς ἰὼν παρεκαθέζετο ἐκ δεξιᾶς, ὥσπερ καὶ σὺ φῄς.
So Clinias, seeing me from the entrance sitting alone, went straight to me and sat down on my right, just as you say.
ἰδόντε δὲ αὐτὸν ὅ τε Διονυσόδωρος καὶ ὁ Εὐθύδημος πρῶτον μὲν ἐπιστάντε διελεγέσθην ἀλλήλοιν, ἄλλην καὶ ἄλλην ἀποβλέποντε εἰς ἡμᾶς—καὶ γὰρ πάνυ αὐτοῖν προσεῖχον τὸν νοῦν—ἔπειτα ἰόντε ὁ μὲν παρὰ τὸ μειράκιον ἐκαθέζετο, ὁ Εὐθύδημος, ὁ δὲ παρʼ αὐτὸν ἐμὲ ἐξ ἀριστερᾶς, οἱ δʼ ἄλλοι ὡς ἕκαστος ἐτύγχανεν.
And Dionysodorus and Euthydemus, seeing him, first stood still and conversed with each other, looking at us now and then — for indeed I was paying close attention to them — then they approached, and Euthydemus sat down by the youth, while the other sat next to me on the left, and the rest sat down as each happened.
ἠσπαζόμην οὖν αὐτὼ ἅτε διὰ χρόνου ἑωρακώς· μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο εἶπον πρὸς τὸν Κλεινίαν· ὦ Κλεινία, τώδε μέντοι τὼ ἄνδρε σοφώ, Εὐθύδημός τε καὶ Διονυσόδωρος, οὐ τὰ σμικρὰ ἀλλὰ τὰ μεγάλα·
So I greeted them, since I had not seen them for some time; and after this I said to Clinias, "Clinias, these two men, Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, are indeed wise, not in small matters, but in great ones.
τὰ γὰρ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον πάντα ἐπίστασθον, ὅσα δεῖ τὸν μέλλοντα ἀγαθὸν στρατηγὸν ἔσεσθαι, τάς τε τάξεις καὶ τὰς ἡγεμονίας τῶν στρατοπέδων καὶ ἐν ὅπλοις μάχεσθαι· οἵω τε δὲ καὶ ποιῆσαι δυνατὸν εἶναι αὐτὸν αὑτῷ βοηθεῖν ἐν τοῖς δικαστηρίοις, ἄν τις αὐτὸν ἀδικῇ. εἰπὼν οὖν ταῦτα κατεφρονήθην ὑπʼ αὐτοῖν· ἐγελασάτην οὖν ἄμφω βλέψαντε εἰς ἀλλήλω, καὶ ὁ Εὐθύδημος εἶπεν· οὔτοι ἔτι ταῦτα, ὦ Σώκρατες, σπουδάζομεν, ἀλλὰ παρέργοις αὐτοῖς χρώμεθα. κἀγὼ θαυμάσας εἶπον· καλὸν ἄν που τὸ ἔργον ὑμῶν εἴη, εἰ τηλικαῦτα πράγματα πάρεργα ὑμῖν τυγχάνει ὄντα, καὶ πρὸς θεῶν εἴπετόν μοι τί ἐστι τοῦτο τὸ καλόν. ἀρετήν,
ἔφη,
ὦ Σώκρατες, οἰόμεθα οἵω τʼ εἶναι παραδοῦναι κάλλιστʼ ἀνθρώπων καὶ τάχιστα.
For they understand everything concerning war, as many things as are necessary for one who is to be a good general, both the tactics and the leadership of armies, and how to fight in armor; and they are also able to make a man capable of helping himself in the law courts, if anyone should wrong him." Now when I said this, I was looked down upon by the two; so they both laughed, looking at each other, and Euthydemus said: "We no longer take these things seriously, Socrates, but we treat them as mere side-interests." And I, marveling, said, "Your main business must indeed be a fine thing, if such great matters happen to be side-interests for you; and, by the gods, tell me what this fine thing is." "Virtue, Socrates," he said, "we think we are able to transmit more finely and more quickly than any other men." "O Zeus," I said, "what a thing you two are claiming!
ὦ Ζεῦ, οἷον, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, λέγετον πρᾶγμα· πόθεν τοῦτο τὸ ἕρμαιον ηὑρέτην;
Wherever did you find this godsend?
ἐγὼ δὲ περὶ ὑμῶν διενοούμην ἔτι, ὥσπερ νυνδὴ ἔλεγον, ὡς τὸ πολὺ τοῦτο δεινοῖν ὄντοιν, ἐν ὅπλοις μάχεσθαι, καὶ ταῦτα ἔλεγον περὶ σφῷν·
For I was still thinking about you, just as I was saying now, that you were clever for the most part in this — fighting in armor — and I was saying these very things about you.
ὅτε γὰρ τὸ πρότερον ἐπεδημησάτην, τοῦτο μέμνημαι σφὼ ἐπαγγελλομένω. §274ΣΩ. εἰ δὲ νῦν ἀληθῶς ταύτην τὴν ἐπιστήμην ἔχετον, ἵλεω εἶτον—ἀτεχνῶς γὰρ ἔγωγε σφὼ ὥσπερ θεὼ προσαγορεύω, συγγνώμην δεόμενος ἔχειν μοι τῶν ἔμπροσθεν εἰρημένων.
For when you visited here previously, I remember you two professing this very thing." "But if you now truly possess this knowledge, be propitious — for indeed I address you two just like gods, asking you to have forgiveness for me for what was said before.
ἀλλʼ ὁρᾶτον, ὦ Εὐθύδημέ τε καὶ Διονυσόδωρε, εἰ ἀληθῆ λέγετον· ὑπὸ γὰρ τοῦ μεγέθους τοῦ ἐπαγγέλματος οὐδὲν θαυμαστὸν ἀπιστεῖν. ἀλλʼ εὖ ἴσθι, ὦ Σώκρατες,
τοῦτο οὕτως ἔχον. μακαρίζω ἄρʼ ὑμᾶς ἔγωγε τοῦ κτήματος πολὺ μᾶλλον ἢ μέγαν βασιλέα τῆς ἀρχῆς· τοσόνδε δέ μοι εἴπετον, εἰ ἐν νῷ ἔχετον ἐπιδεικνύναι ταύτην τὴν σοφίαν, ἢ πῶς σφῷν βεβούλευται. ἐπʼ αὐτό γε τοῦτο πάρεσμεν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὡς ἐπιδείξοντε καὶ διδάξοντε, ἐάν τις ἐθέλῃ μανθάνειν. ἀλλʼ ὅτι μὲν ἐθελήσουσιν ἅπαντες οἱ μὴ ἔχοντες, ἐγὼ ὑμῖν ἐγγυῶμαι, πρῶτος μὲν ἐγώ, ἔπειτα δὲ Κλεινίας οὑτοσί, πρὸς δʼ ἡμῖν Κτήσιππός τε ὅδε καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι οὗτοι, ἦν δʼ ἐγὼ δεικνὺς αὐτῷ τοὺς ἐραστὰς τοὺς Κλεινίου·
But consider, Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, whether you are speaking the truth; for because of the greatness of the promise, it is nothing wonderful to be unbelieving." "But rest assured, Socrates, that this is indeed so." "Then I indeed congratulate you on your possession much more than the Great King on his empire; but tell me just this much, whether you have it in mind to exhibit this wisdom, or how you two have decided." "For this very purpose, Socrates, we are here, to exhibit and to teach, if anyone wishes to learn." "But that all who do not possess it will wish to learn, I guarantee you — first I myself, then Clinias here, and in addition to us both Ctesippus here and these others," I said, pointing out to him the lovers of Clinias; for they happened to be already standing around us.
οἱ δὲ ἐτύγχανον ἡμᾶς ἤδη περιιστάμενοι. ὁ γὰρ Κτήσιππος ἔτυχε πόρρω καθεζόμενος τοῦ Κλεινίου—κἀμοὶ δοκεῖν ὡς ἐτύγχανεν ὁ Εὐθύδημος ἐμοὶ διαλεγόμενος προνενευκὼς εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν, ἐν μέσῳ ὄντος ἡμῶν τοῦ Κλεινίου ἐπεσκότει τῷ Κτησίππῳ τῆς θέας—βουλόμενός τε οὖν θεάσασθαι ὁ Κτήσιππος τὰ παιδικὰ καὶ ἅμα φιλήκοος ὢν ἀναπηδήσας πρῶτος προσέστη ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ καταντικρύ· οὕτως οὖν καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι ἐκεῖνον ἰδόντες περιέστησαν ἡμᾶς, οἵ τε τοῦ Κλεινίου ἐρασταὶ καὶ οἱ τοῦ Εὐθυδήμου τε καὶ Διονυσοδώρου ἑταῖροι.
For Ctesippus happened to be sitting far from Clinias — and, as it seemed to me, since Euthydemus happened to lean forward as he spoke to me, Clinias, being in the middle of us, blocked Ctesippus's view — so Ctesippus, wishing to gaze upon his beloved and at the same time being fond of listening, was the first to leap up and stand before us, directly opposite; thus the others also, seeing him, stood around us, both the lovers of Clinias and the companions of Euthydemus and Dionysodorus.
τούτους δὴ ἐγὼ δεικνὺς ἔλεγον τῷ Εὐθυδήμῳ ὅτι πάντες ἕτοιμοι εἶεν μανθάνειν· ὅ τε οὖν Κτήσιππος συνέφη μάλα προθύμως καὶ οἱ ἄλλοι, καὶ ἐκέλευον αὐτὼ κοινῇ πάντες ἐπιδείξασθαι τὴν δύναμιν τῆς σοφίας.
Pointing these out, then, I told Euthydemus that they were all ready to learn; and so Ctesippus agreed very eagerly, as did the others, and they all jointly bid them to exhibit the power of their wisdom.
εἶπον οὖν ἐγώ· ὦ Εὐθύδημε καὶ Διονυσόδωρε, πάνυ μὲν οὖν παντὶ τρόπῳ καὶ τούτοις χαρίσασθον καὶ ἐμοῦ ἕνεκα ἐπιδείξασθον.
So I said, "Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, by all means and in every way gratify these people, and for my sake too, make an exhibition.
τὰ μὲν οὖν πλεῖστα δῆλον ὅτι οὐκ ὀλίγον ἔργον ἐπιδεῖξαι· τόδε δέ μοι εἴπετον, πότερον πεπεισμένον ἤδη ὡς χρὴ παρʼ ὑμῶν μανθάνειν δύναισθʼ ἂν ἀγαθὸν ποιῆσαι ἄνδρα μόνον, ἢ καὶ ἐκεῖνον τὸν μήπω πεπεισμένον διὰ τὸ μὴ οἴεσθαι ὅλως τὸ πρᾶγμα τὴν ἀρετὴν μαθητὸν εἶναι ἢ μὴ σφὼ εἶναι αὐτῆς διδασκάλω;
Now, to exhibit most of it is clearly no small task; but tell me just this: whether you could make a good man only of the one who is already persuaded that he ought to learn from you, or also of him who is not yet persuaded, because he does not believe at all that virtue is a teachable thing or that you two are teachers of it?
φέρε, καὶ τὸν οὕτως ἔχοντα τῆς αὐτῆς τέχνης ἔργον πεῖσαι ὡς καὶ διδακτὸν ἡ ἀρετὴ καὶ οὗτοι ὑμεῖς ἐστὲ παρʼ ὧν ἂν κάλλιστά τις αὐτὸ μάθοι, ἢ ἄλλης; ταύτης μὲν οὖν,
ἔφη,
τῆς αὐτῆς, ὦ Σώκρατες,
ὁ Διονυσόδωρος.
Come, is it the task of the same art, or of another, to persuade a person in this state of mind both that virtue is teachable and that you are the ones from whom he would learn it best?" "Of this very same art, Socrates," said Dionysodorus.