§207πάνυ μὲν οὖν, ἔφη.
"Certainly," she said.
τί δὴ οὖν τῆς γεννήσεως;
"Why then of generation?
ὅτι ἀειγενές ἐστι καὶ ἀθάνατον ὡς θνητῷ ἡ γέννησις.
Because generation is an eternal generation and immortal, as far as possible for a mortal.
ἀθανασίας δὲ ἀναγκαῖον ἐπιθυμεῖν μετὰ ἀγαθοῦ ἐκ τῶν ὡμολογημένων, εἴπερ τοῦ ἀγαθοῦ ἑαυτῷ εἶναι ἀεὶ ἔρως ἐστίν.
And it is necessary to desire immortality along with the good from what has been agreed, if indeed love is for the good to be always one's own.
ἀναγκαῖον δὴ ἐκ τούτου τοῦ λόγου καὶ τῆς ἀθανασίας τὸν ἔρωτα εἶναι. ταῦτά τε οὖν πάντα ἐδίδασκέ με, ὁπότε περὶ τῶν ἐρωτικῶν λόγους ποιοῖτο, καί ποτε ἤρετο τί οἴει, ὦ Σώκρατες, αἴτιον εἶναι τούτου τοῦ ἔρωτος καὶ τῆς ἐπιθυμίας;
It is necessary then from this argument that love is also of immortality." And she used to teach me all these things, whenever she made discourses concerning love, and once she asked: "What do you think, Socrates, is the cause of this love and desire?
ἢ οὐκ αἰσθάνῃ ὡς δεινῶς διατίθεται πάντα τὰ θηρία ἐπειδὰν γεννᾶν ἐπιθυμήσῃ, καὶ τὰ πεζὰ καὶ τὰ πτηνά, νοσοῦντά τε πάντα καὶ ἐρωτικῶς διατιθέμενα, πρῶτον μὲν περὶ τὸ συμμιγῆναι ἀλλήλοις, ἔπειτα περὶ τὴν τροφὴν τοῦ γενομένου, καὶ ἕτοιμά ἐστιν ὑπὲρ τούτων καὶ διαμάχεσθαι τὰ ἀσθενέστατα τοῖς ἰσχυροτάτοις καὶ ὑπεραποθνῄσκειν, καὶ αὐτὰ τῷ λιμῷ παρατεινόμενα ὥστʼ ἐκεῖνα ἐκτρέφειν, καὶ ἄλλο πᾶν ποιοῦντα.
Or do you not perceive how terribly all the beasts are affected when they desire to generate, both the land animals and the birds, all being sick and passionately affected, first concerning union with one another, then concerning the nourishment of what is generated, and they are ready even to fight on behalf of these, the weakest against the strongest, and to die for them, and they themselves are wasted by hunger so as to rear them, and doing everything else?
τοὺς μὲν γὰρ ἀνθρώπους, ἔφη, οἴοιτʼ ἄν τις ἐκ λογισμοῦ ταῦτα ποιεῖν· τὰ δὲ θηρία τίς αἰτία οὕτως ἐρωτικῶς διατίθεσθαι;
For as for men," she said, "one might think they do these things from reasoning; but as for the beasts, what is the cause of their being so passionately affected?
ἔχεις λέγειν; καὶ ἐγὼ αὖ ἔλεγον ὅτι οὐκ εἰδείην· ἣ δʼ εἶπεν, Διανοῇ οὖν δεινός ποτε γενήσεσθαι τὰ ἐρωτικά, ἐὰν ταῦτα μὴ ἐννοῇς; ἀλλὰ διὰ ταῦτά τοι, ὦ Διοτίμα, ὅπερ νυνδὴ εἶπον, παρὰ σὲ ἥκω, γνοὺς ὅτι διδασκάλων δέομαι.
Can you tell?" And I said again that I did not know; and she said, "Do you then expect ever to become skilled in love matters, if you do not understand these things?" "But indeed for this very reason, Diotima, as I said just now, I have come to you, knowing that I need teachers.
ἀλλά μοι λέγε καὶ τούτων τὴν αἰτίαν καὶ τῶν ἄλλων τῶν περὶ τὰ ἐρωτικά. εἰ τοίνυν, ἔφη, πιστεύεις ἐκείνου εἶναι φύσει τὸν ἔρωτα, οὗ πολλάκις ὡμολογήκαμεν, μὴ θαύμαζε.
So tell me the cause of these things and of the other things concerning love." "If then," she said, "you believe that love is by nature for that which we have often agreed upon, do not marvel.
ἐνταῦθα γὰρ τὸν αὐτὸν ἐκείνῳ λόγον ἡ θνητὴ φύσις ζητεῖ κατὰ τὸ δυνατὸν ἀεί τε εἶναι καὶ ἀθάνατος.
For here mortal nature seeks, as far as possible, to be always and immortal.
δύναται δὲ ταύτῃ μόνον, τῇ γενέσει, ὅτι ἀεὶ καταλείπει ἕτερον νέον ἀντὶ τοῦ παλαιοῦ, ἐπεὶ καὶ ἐν ᾧ ἓν ἕκαστον τῶν ζῴων ζῆν καλεῖται καὶ εἶναι τὸ αὐτό—οἷον ἐκ παιδαρίου ὁ αὐτὸς λέγεται ἕως ἂν πρεσβύτης γένηται· οὗτος μέντοι οὐδέποτε τὰ αὐτὰ ἔχων ἐν αὑτῷ ὅμως ὁ αὐτὸς καλεῖται, ἀλλὰ νέος ἀεὶ γιγνόμενος, τὰ δὲ ἀπολλύς, καὶ κατὰ τὰς τρίχας καὶ σάρκα καὶ ὀστᾶ καὶ αἷμα καὶ σύμπαν τὸ σῶμα.
And it is able to do so only in this way, by generation, because it always leaves behind another new thing in place of the old; since even in the period during which each of the living beings is said to live and to be the same—as, for instance, a man is said to be the same from childhood until he becomes an old man; yet he, though never having the same things in himself, is nevertheless called the same, but always becoming new, and losing other things, both in respect of hair and flesh and bones and blood and the whole body.
καὶ μὴ ὅτι κατὰ τὸ σῶμα, ἀλλὰ καὶ κατὰ τὴν ψυχὴν οἱ τρόποι, τὰ ἤθη, δόξαι, ἐπιθυμίαι, ἡδοναί, λῦπαι, φόβοι, τούτων ἕκαστα οὐδέποτε τὰ αὐτὰ πάρεστιν ἑκάστῳ, ἀλλὰ τὰ μὲν γίγνεται, τὰ δὲ ἀπόλλυται.
And not only according to the body, but also according to the soul: one's ways, characters, opinions, desires, pleasures, pains, fears—each of these is never present as the same to each person, but some come into being, while others perish.
§208πολὺ δὲ τούτων ἀτοπώτερον ἔτι, ὅτι καὶ αἱ ἐπιστῆμαι μὴ ὅτι αἱ μὲν γίγνονται, αἱ δὲ ἀπόλλυνται ἡμῖν, καὶ οὐδέποτε οἱ αὐτοί ἐσμεν οὐδὲ κατὰ τὰς ἐπιστήμας, ἀλλὰ καὶ μία ἑκάστη τῶν ἐπιστημῶν ταὐτὸν πάσχει.
"And what is still much stranger than these is that, concerning knowledge, not only do some knowledges come into being while others perish for us, so that we are never the same even in respect of knowledge, but also each single piece of knowledge suffers this same thing.
ὃ γὰρ καλεῖται μελετᾶν, ὡς ἐξιούσης ἐστὶ τῆς ἐπιστήμης· λήθη γὰρ ἐπιστήμης ἔξοδος, μελέτη δὲ πάλιν καινὴν ἐμποιοῦσα ἀντὶ τῆς ἀπιούσης μνήμην σῴζει τὴν ἐπιστήμην, ὥστε τὴν αὐτὴν δοκεῖν εἶναι.
For what is called 'practicing' exists because knowledge is going out; for forgetfulness is the exit of knowledge, and practicing, by implanting again a new memory in place of the departing one, preserves the knowledge, so that it seems to be the same.
τούτῳ γὰρ τῷ τρόπῳ πᾶν τὸ θνητὸν σῴζεται, οὐ τῷ παντάπασιν τὸ αὐτὸ ἀεὶ εἶναι ὥσπερ τὸ θεῖον, ἀλλὰ τῷ τὸ ἀπιὸν καὶ παλαιούμενον ἕτερον νέον ἐγκαταλείπειν οἷον αὐτὸ ἦν.
For in this way everything mortal is preserved, not by being absolutely always the same like the divine, but by the departing and aging thing leaving behind another new thing such as it was itself.
ταύτῃ τῇ μηχανῇ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφη, θνητὸν ἀθανασίας μετέχει, καὶ σῶμα καὶ τἆλλα πάντα· ἀθάνατον δὲ ἄλλῃ.
'By this device, Socrates,' she said, 'the mortal partakes of immortality, both the body and all other things; but the immortal in another way.
μὴ οὖν θαύμαζε εἰ τὸ αὑτοῦ ἀποβλάστημα φύσει πᾶν τιμᾷ· ἀθανασίας γὰρ χάριν παντὶ αὕτη ἡ σπουδὴ καὶ ὁ ἔρως ἕπεται. καὶ ἐγὼ ἀκούσας τὸν λόγον ἐθαύμασά τε καὶ εἶπον εἶεν, ἦν δʼ ἐγώ, ὦ σοφωτάτη Διοτίμα, ταῦτα ὡς ἀληθῶς οὕτως ἔχει; καὶ ἥ, ὥσπερ οἱ τέλεοι σοφισταί, εὖ ἴσθι, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες· ἐπεί γε καὶ τῶν ἀνθρώπων εἰ ἐθέλεις εἰς τὴν φιλοτιμίαν βλέψαι, θαυμάζοις ἂν τῆς ἀλογίας περὶ ἃ ἐγὼ εἴρηκα εἰ μὴ ἐννοεῖς, ἐνθυμηθεὶς ὡς δεινῶς διάκεινται ἔρωτι τοῦ ὀνομαστοὶ γενέσθαι
"καὶ κλέος ἐς τὸν ἀεὶ χρόνον ἀθάνατον καταθέσθαι"
, καὶ ὑπὲρ τούτου κινδύνους τε κινδυνεύειν ἕτοιμοί εἰσι πάντας ἔτι μᾶλλον ἢ ὑπὲρ τῶν παίδων, καὶ χρήματα ἀναλίσκειν καὶ πόνους πονεῖν οὑστινασοῦν καὶ ὑπεραποθνῄσκειν.
Do not then marvel if everything by nature values its own offshoot; for it is for the sake of immortality that this eagerness and love follow everything.'" And I, having heard the argument, marveled and said: "So be it, O most wise Diotima, are these things truly so?" And she, like the perfect sophists, said: "Know well, Socrates; since indeed, if you will look at the love of honor among men, you would marvel at their irrationality concerning what I have said, unless you understand, reflecting on how terribly they are affected by the love of becoming famous 'and of laying up an immortal glory for all time,' and on behalf of this they are ready to run all risks even more than on behalf of their children, and to spend money, and to undergo any labors whatsoever, and to die for it.
ἐπεὶ οἴει σύ, ἔφη, Ἄλκηστιν ὑπὲρ Ἀδμήτου ἀποθανεῖν ἄν, ἢ Ἀχιλλέα Πατρόκλῳ ἐπαποθανεῖν, ἢ προαποθανεῖν τὸν ὑμέτερον Κόδρον ὑπὲρ τῆς βασιλείας τῶν παίδων, μὴ οἰομένους ἀθάνατον μνήμην ἀρετῆς πέρι ἑαυτῶν ἔσεσθαι, ἣν νῦν ἡμεῖς ἔχομεν;
For do you think," she said, "that Alcestis would have died for Admetus, or Achilles have died after Patroclus, or your Codrus have died beforehand for the kingship of his children, if they did not think there would be an immortal memory of their virtue, which we now preserve?
πολλοῦ γε δεῖ, ἔφη, ἀλλʼ οἶμαι ὑπὲρ ἀρετῆς ἀθανάτου καὶ τοιαύτης δόξης εὐκλεοῦς πάντες πάντα ποιοῦσιν, ὅσῳ ἂν ἀμείνους ὦσι, τοσούτῳ μᾶλλον· τοῦ γὰρ ἀθανάτου ἐρῶσιν.
Far from it," she said, "but I think on behalf of immortal virtue and such glorious reputation everyone does everything, and the better they are, the more they do so; for they love the immortal."