Humanitext Reader

Plato · Symposium §197-198

Conclusion of Agathon's Speech and Socrates's Critique

Passage 18 of 36 · Greek

Summary

Agathon concludes his speech by praising Eros as the source of all creation and the arts of the gods, and Socrates, while overwhelmed by its rhetorical beauty, points out the difference between telling the truth and making a beautiful speech.

§197καὶ μὲν δὴ τήν γε τῶν ζῴων ποίησιν πάντων τίς ἐναντιώσεται μὴ οὐχὶ Ἔρωτος εἶναι σοφίαν, ᾗ γίγνεταί τε καὶ φύεται πάντα τὰ ζῷα;
And indeed, who will deny that the creation of all living things is the wisdom of Eros, by which all living things are generated and grow?
ἀλλὰ τὴν τῶν τεχνῶν δημιουργίαν οὐκ ἴσμεν, ὅτι οὗ μὲν ἂν ὁ θεὸς οὗτος διδάσκαλος γένηται, ἐλλόγιμος καὶ φανὸς ἀπέβη, οὗ δʼ ἂν Ἔρως μὴ ἐφάψηται, σκοτεινός;
But as for the creation of the arts, do we not know that he whose teacher this god becomes turns out famous and illustrious, but he whom Eros does not touch remains obscure?
τοξικήν γε μὴν καὶ ἰατρικὴν καὶ μαντικὴν Ἀπόλλων ἀνηῦρεν ἐπιθυμίας καὶ ἔρωτος ἡγεμονεύσαντος, ὥστε καὶ οὗτος Ἔρωτος ἂν εἴη μαθητής, καὶ Μοῦσαι μουσικῆς καὶ Ἥφαιστος χαλκείας καὶ Ἀθηνᾶ ἱστουργίας καὶ "Ζεὺς κυβερνᾶν θεῶν τε καὶ ἀνθρώπων" .
At any rate, Apollo invented archery, medicine, and divination, with desire and love guiding him, so that he too would be a disciple of Eros, and the Muses of music, Hephaestus of blacksmithing, Athena of weaving, and 'Zeus of governing both gods and humans'.
ὅθεν δὴ καὶ κατεσκευάσθη τῶν θεῶν τὰ πράγματα Ἔρωτος ἐγγενομένου, δῆλον ὅτι κάλλους—αἴσχει γὰρ οὐκ ἔπι ἔρως—πρὸ τοῦ δέ, ὥσπερ ἐν ἀρχῇ εἶπον, πολλὰ καὶ δεινὰ θεοῖς ἐγίγνετο, ὡς λέγεται, διὰ τὴν τῆς ἀνάγκης βασιλείαν· ἐπειδὴ δʼ ὁ θεὸς οὗτος ἔφυ, ἐκ τοῦ ἐρᾶν τῶν καλῶν πάντʼ ἀγαθὰ γέγονεν καὶ θεοῖς καὶ ἀνθρώποις.
From which indeed the affairs of the gods were also set in order once Eros arose among them, clearly of beauty—for love does not attach to ugliness—but before that, as I said in the beginning, many terrible things happened to the gods, as it is said, through the reign of Necessity; but since this god was born, from the love of beautiful things all good things have come to be for both gods and humans.
οὕτως ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, ὦ Φαῖδρε, Ἔρως πρῶτος αὐτὸς ὢν κάλλιστος καὶ ἄριστος μετὰ τοῦτο τοῖς ἄλλοις ἄλλων τοιούτων αἴτιος εἶναι.
Thus it seems to me, O Phaedrus, that Eros, being himself first most beautiful and best, is thereafter the cause of other such things for others.
ἐπέρχεται δέ μοί τι καὶ ἔμμετρον εἰπεῖν, ὅτι οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ ποιῶν " εἰρήνην μὲν ἐν ἀνθρώποις, πελάγει δὲ γαλήνην νηνεμίαν, ἀνέμων κοίτην ὕπνον τʼ ἐνὶ κήδει. " οὗτος δὲ ἡμᾶς ἀλλοτριότητος μὲν κενοῖ, οἰκειότητος δὲ πληροῖ, τὰς τοιάσδε συνόδους μετʼ ἀλλήλων πάσας τιθεὶς συνιέναι, ἐν ἑορταῖς, ἐν χοροῖς, ἐν θυσίαισι γιγνόμενος ἡγεμών· πρᾳότητα μὲν πορίζων, ἀγριότητα δʼ ἐξορίζων· φιλόδωρος εὐμενείας, ἄδωρος δυσμενείας· ἵλεως ἀγαθός· θεατὸς σοφοῖς, ἀγαστὸς θεοῖς· ζηλωτὸς ἀμοίροις, κτητὸς εὐμοίροις· τρυφῆς, ἁβρότητος, χλιδῆς, χαρίτων, ἱμέρου, πόθου πατήρ· ἐπιμελὴς ἀγαθῶν, ἀμελὴς κακῶν· ἐν πόνῳ, ἐν φόβῳ, ἐν πόθῳ, ἐν λόγῳ κυβερνήτης, ἐπιβάτης, παραστάτης τε καὶ σωτὴρ ἄριστος, συμπάντων τε θεῶν καὶ ἀνθρώπων κόσμος, ἡγεμὼν κάλλιστος καὶ ἄριστος, ᾧ χρὴ ἕπεσθαι πάντα ἄνδρα ἐφυμνοῦντα καλῶς, ᾠδῆς μετέχοντα ἣν ᾁδει θέλγων πάντων θεῶν τε καὶ ἀνθρώπων νόημα.
And it occurs to me to say also in verse, that he is the one who brings "peace among humans, and on the sea a windless calm, a resting-place for winds, and sleep in grief." And he empties us of estrangement and fills us with intimacy, causing all such gatherings with one another to assemble, becoming the leader in festivals, in dances, in sacrifices; providing gentleness, banishing wildness; lavish of goodwill, giving no ill-will; gracious and good; gazed upon by the wise, admired by gods; envied by the unfortunate, possessed by the fortunate; father of luxury, of delicacy, of elegance, of graces, of longing, of desire; careful of the good, careless of the bad; in labor, in fear, in longing, in speech, a helmsman, a passenger, a defender, and best savior; the ornament of all gods and humans, the most beautiful and best leader, whom every man ought to follow, singing beautiful hymns, sharing in the song which he sings, charming the mind of all gods and humans.
οὗτος, ἔφη, ὁ παρʼ ἐμοῦ λόγος, ὦ Φαῖδρε, τῷ θεῷ ἀνακείσθω, τὰ μὲν παιδιᾶς, τὰ δὲ σπουδῆς μετρίας, καθʼ ὅσον ἐγὼ δύναμαι, μετέχων.
This speech from me, he said, O Phaedrus, let it be dedicated to the god, sharing partly in play, and partly in moderate seriousness, as far as I am able.
§198εἰπόντος δὲ τοῦ Ἀγάθωνος πάντας ἔφη ὁ Ἀριστόδημος ἀναθορυβῆσαι τοὺς παρόντας, ὡς πρεπόντως τοῦ νεανίσκου εἰρηκότος καὶ αὑτῷ καὶ τῷ θεῷ.
And when Agathon had spoken, Aristodemus said that all those present applauded, as the young man had spoken in a manner fitting both to himself and to the god.
τὸν οὖν Σωκράτη εἰπεῖν βλέψαντα εἰς τὸν Ἐρυξίμαχον, ἆρά σοι δοκῶ, φάναι, ὦ παῖ Ἀκουμενοῦ, ἀδεὲς πάλαι δέος δεδιέναι, ἀλλʼ οὐ μαντικῶς ἃ νυνδὴ ἔλεγον εἰπεῖν, ὅτι Ἀγάθων θαυμαστῶς ἐροῖ, ἐγὼ δʼ ἀπορήσοιμι; τὸ μὲν ἕτερον, φάναι τὸν Ἐρυξίμαχον, μαντικῶς μοι δοκεῖς εἰρηκέναι, ὅτι Ἀγάθων εὖ ἐρεῖ· τὸ δὲ σὲ ἀπορήσειν, οὐκ οἶμαι. καὶ πῶς, ὦ μακάριε, εἰπεῖν τὸν Σωκράτη, οὐ μέλλω ἀπορεῖν καὶ ἐγὼ καὶ ἄλλος ὁστισοῦν, μέλλων λέξειν μετὰ καλὸν οὕτω καὶ παντοδαπὸν λόγον ῥηθέντα;
Socrates then, looking at Eryximachus, said, "Do I seem to you, O son of Acumenus, to have feared a groundless fear for a long time, and not to have spoken prophetically when I said just now that Agathon would speak marvelously, and I would be at a loss?" "The one thing," said Eryximachus, "you seem to me to have spoken prophetically, that Agathon would speak well; but as for your being at a loss, I do not think so." "And how, my dear friend," said Socrates, "am I not going to be at a loss, both I and anyone else, when about to speak after such a beautiful and diverse speech has been delivered?
καὶ τὰ μὲν ἄλλα οὐχ ὁμοίως μὲν θαυμαστά· τὸ δὲ ἐπὶ τελευτῆς τοῦ κάλλους τῶν ὀνομάτων καὶ ῥημάτων τίς οὐκ ἂν ἐξεπλάγη ἀκούων;
And though the other parts were not equally marvelous, who would not be struck on hearing at the end the beauty of the nouns and verbs?
ἐπεὶ ἔγωγε ἐνθυμούμενος ὅτι αὐτὸς οὐχ οἷός τʼ ἔσομαι οὐδʼ ἐγγὺς τούτων οὐδὲν καλὸν εἰπεῖν, ὑπʼ αἰσχύνης ὀλίγου ἀποδρὰς ᾠχόμην, εἴ πῃ εἶχον.
For I, reflecting that I myself would not be able to say anything beautiful that comes even close to this, almost ran away in shame, if only I had somewhere to go.
καὶ γάρ με Γοργίου ὁ λόγος ἀνεμίμνῃσκεν, ὥστε ἀτεχνῶς τὸ τοῦ Ὁμήρου ἐπεπόνθη· ἐφοβούμην μή μοι τελευτῶν ὁ Ἀγάθων Γοργίου κεφαλὴν δεινοῦ λέγειν ἐν τῷ λόγῳ ἐπὶ τὸν ἐμὸν λόγον πέμψας αὐτόν με λίθον τῇ ἀφωνίᾳ ποιήσειεν.
For indeed his speech reminded me of Gorgias, so that I literally suffered what Homer described; I was afraid lest Agathon, at the end, by sending the head of Gorgias, that terrible speaker, into his speech against my speech, should turn me myself into stone with muteness.
καὶ ἐνενόησα τότε ἄρα καταγέλαστος ὤν, ἡνίκα ὑμῖν ὡμολόγουν ἐν τῷ μέρει μεθʼ ὑμῶν ἐγκωμιάσεσθαι τὸν ἔρωτα καὶ ἔφην εἶναι δεινὸς τὰ ἐρωτικά, οὐδὲν εἰδὼς ἄρα τοῦ πράγματος, ὡς ἔδει ἐγκωμιάζειν ὁτιοῦν.
And I realized then that I was indeed ridiculous when I agreed with you to praise love in my turn with you, and said that I was skilled in love affairs, knowing nothing, as it turns out, of the matter, how one ought to praise anything.
ἐγὼ μὲν γὰρ ὑπʼ ἀβελτερίας ᾤμην δεῖν τἀληθῆ λέγειν περὶ ἑκάστου τοῦ ἐγκωμιαζομένου, καὶ τοῦτο μὲν ὑπάρχειν, ἐξ αὐτῶν δὲ τούτων τὰ κάλλιστα ἐκλεγομένους ὡς εὐπρεπέστατα τιθέναι· καὶ πάνυ δὴ μέγα ἐφρόνουν ὡς εὖ ἐρῶν, ὡς εἰδὼς τὴν ἀλήθειαν τοῦ ἐπαινεῖν ὁτιοῦν.
For I, in my foolishness, thought that one ought to tell the truth about each thing praised, and that this should be the foundation, and that from these very truths one should choose the most beautiful things and arrange them in the most fitting way; and I was indeed very proud that I would speak well, as if knowing the truth of how to praise anything.
τὸ δὲ ἄρα, ὡς ἔοικεν, οὐ τοῦτο ἦν τὸ καλῶς ἐπαινεῖν ὁτιοῦν, ἀλλὰ τὸ ὡς μέγιστα ἀνατιθέναι τῷ πράγματι καὶ ὡς κάλλιστα, ἐάν τε ᾖ οὕτως ἔχοντα ἐάν τε μή· εἰ δὲ ψευδῆ, οὐδὲν ἄρʼ ἦν πρᾶγμα.
But this, as it seems, was not what it meant to praise anything well, but rather to attribute to the object the greatest and most beautiful things possible, whether they are so or not; and if they are false, it turns out to be of no consequence.
προυρρήθη γάρ, ὡς ἔοικεν, ὅπως ἕκαστος ἡμῶν τὸν ἔρωτα ἐγκωμιάζειν δόξει, οὐχ ὅπως ἐγκωμιάσεται.
For it was agreed beforehand, as it seems, that each of us should seem to praise Eros, not that he should actually praise him."

Notes

  1. 197aμὴ οὐχὶ — Double negative particle used before the infinitive (εἶναι) following a question implying a negative answer ('who will deny', meaning 'no one will deny'). It strengthens the negation, meaning 'who will deny that it is NOT...', resulting in a strong positive assertion 'everyone must agree that it is...'.
  2. 197bκυβερνᾶν — An infinitive from a poetic quotation, treated in apposition to the preceding nouns (such as χαλκείας and ἱστουργίας), representing the 'art of governing' learned with Eros as the teacher.
  3. 198cμή μοι ... ποιήσειεν — A fear clause introduced by μή following a verb of fearing in the past tense (ἐφοβούμην), which triggers the optative mood (ποιήσειεν) in the dependent clause. It also conveys a humorous wordplay on Gorgias and the Gorgon's head.
  4. 198eὅπως ... δόξει — The conjunction ὅπως with the future indicative (δόξει) functioning as the complement of the verb προυρρήθη (it was agreed beforehand), expressing the content or purpose of the agreement ('that each should seem...').

Cite this passage

Plato, Symposium §197-198. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0059.tlg011.humanitext-grc2:197-198

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