§277ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ κινδυνεύει γε, ὦ ξένε, τελέως ἂν ἡμῖν οὕτως ἔχειν ἡ περὶ τὸν πολιτικὸν ἀπόδειξις.
YOUNG SOCRATES: And indeed, stranger, it seems likely that our demonstration concerning the statesman would be completely finished in this way.
ΞΕ. καλῶς ἄν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἡμῖν ἔχοι.
STRANGER: It would be well, Socrates.
δεῖ δὲ μὴ σοὶ μόνῳ ταῦτα, ἀλλὰ κἀμοὶ μετὰ σοῦ κοινῇ συνδοκεῖν.
But this must not seem so to you alone, but to me also in common with you.
νῦν δὲ κατά γε τὴν ἐμὴν οὔπω φαίνεται τέλεον ὁ βασιλεὺς ἡμῖν σχῆμα ἔχειν, ἀλλὰ καθάπερ ἀνδριαντοποιοὶ παρὰ καιρὸν ἐνίοτε σπεύδοντες πλείω καὶ μείζω τοῦ δέοντος ἕκαστα τῶν ἔργων ἐπεμβαλλόμενοι βραδύνουσι, καὶ νῦν ἡμεῖς, ἵνα δὴ πρὸς τῷ ταχὺ καὶ μεγαλοπρεπῶς δηλώσαιμεν τὸ τῆς ἔμπροσθεν ἁμάρτημα διεξόδου, τῷ βασιλεῖ νομίσαντες πρέπειν μεγάλα παραδείγματα ποιεῖσθαι, θαυμαστὸν ὄγκον ἀράμενοι τοῦ μύθου, μείζονι τοῦ δέοντος ἠναγκάσθημεν αὐτοῦ μέρει προσχρήσασθαι·
But now, at least in my view, the king does not yet seem to us to have his perfect shape; but just like sculptors who sometimes, in untimely haste, by inserting more and larger things than necessary into each of their works, make their progress slow, so now we too, in order to show quickly and magnificently the error of our previous inquiry, thinking it appropriate to make great examples for the king, and having taken up a wonderful mass of myth, were forced to make use of a larger part of it than necessary.
διὸ μακροτέραν τὴν ἀπόδειξιν πεποιήκαμεν καὶ πάντως τῷ μύθῳ τέλος οὐκ ἐπέθεμεν, ἀλλʼ ἀτεχνῶς ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν ὥσπερ ζῷον τὴν ἔξωθεν μὲν περιγραφὴν ἔοικεν ἱκανῶς ἔχειν, τὴν δὲ οἷον τοῖς φαρμάκοις καὶ τῇ συγκράσει τῶν χρωμάτων ἐνάργειαν οὐκ ἀπειληφέναι πω.
On this account, we have made our demonstration longer, and we have not put a finish to the myth at all, but indeed our discourse, just like a living creature, seems to have its outer outline sufficiently, but not yet to have received its vividness, as it were, through drugs and the mixing of colors.
γραφῆς δὲ καὶ συμπάσης χειρουργίας λέξει καὶ λόγῳ δηλοῦν πᾶν ζῷον μᾶλλον πρέπει τοῖς δυναμένοις ἕπεσθαι· τοῖς δʼ ἄλλοις διὰ χειρουργιῶν.
But to show any living creature through speech and discourse is more fitting for those who are able to follow; but for others, it is through handiworks.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τοῦτο μὲν ὀρθῶς· ὅπῃ δὲ ἡμῖν οὔπω φῂς ἱκανῶς εἰρῆσθαι δήλωσον.
YOUNG SOCRATES: This is correct; but make clear in what way you say it has not yet been sufficiently spoken.
ΞΕ. χαλεπόν, ὦ δαιμόνιε, μὴ παραδείγμασι χρώμενον ἱκανῶς ἐνδείκνυσθαί τι τῶν μειζόνων.
STRANGER: It is difficult, my good friend, to make clear any of the greater things sufficiently without using examples.
κινδυνεύει γὰρ ἡμῶν ἕκαστος οἷον ὄναρ εἰδὼς ἅπαντα πάντʼ αὖ πάλιν ὥσπερ ὕπαρ ἀγνοεῖν.
For each of us seems, as if knowing all things in a dream, in turn to be ignorant of everything as if awake.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς τοῦτʼ εἶπες;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How did you say this?
ΞΕ. καὶ μάλʼ ἀτόπως ἔοικά γε ἐν τῷ παρόντι κινήσας τὸ περὶ τῆς ἐπιστήμης πάθος ἐν ἡμῖν.
STRANGER: I seem, and indeed very strangely, at the present moment to have stirred up the condition concerning knowledge in us.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί δή;
YOUNG SOCRATES: Why so?
ΞΕ. παραδείγματος, ὦ μακάριε, αὖ μοι καὶ τὸ παράδειγμα αὐτὸ δεδέηκεν.
STRANGER: For me, my blessed friend, even the example itself has in turn required an example.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί οὖν;
YOUNG SOCRATES: What then?
λέγε μηδὲν ἐμοῦ γε ἕνεκα ἀποκνῶν.
Speak, not hesitating at all on my account.
ΞΕ. λεκτέον ἐπειδὴ καὶ σύ γε ἕτοιμος ἀκολουθεῖν.
STRANGER: I must speak, since you are indeed ready to follow.
τοὺς γάρ που παῖδας ἴσμεν, ὅταν ἄρτι γραμμάτων ἔμπειροι γίγνωνται—
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ ποῖον;
For we know, I suppose, that children, when they are newly becoming experienced in letters— YOUNG SOCRATES: What about them?
ΞΕ. ὅτι τῶν στοιχείων ἕκαστον ἐν ταῖς βραχυτάταις καὶ ῥᾴσταις τῶν συλλαβῶν ἱκανῶς διαισθάνονται, καὶ τἀληθῆ φράζειν περὶ ἐκεῖνα δυνατοὶ γίγνονται.
STRANGER: —that they sufficiently perceive each of the elements in the shortest and easiest of syllables, and become able to state the truth about them.
§278ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How could they not?
ΞΕ. ταὐτὰ δέ γε ταῦτα ἐν ἄλλαις ἀμφιγνοοῦντες πάλιν δόξῃ τε ψεύδονται καὶ λόγῳ.
STRANGER: But these very same letters, when in other syllables, they are in doubt about, and in turn are deceived both in opinion and in speech.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Absolutely.
ΞΕ. ἆρʼ οὖν οὐχ ὧδε ῥᾷστον καὶ κάλλιστον ἐπάγειν αὐτοὺς ἐπὶ τὰ μήπω γιγνωσκόμενα;
STRANGER: Is it not, then, in this way easiest and finest to lead them to what is not yet known?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς;
YOUNG SOCRATES: How?
ΞΕ. ἀνάγειν πρῶτον ἐπʼ ἐκεῖνα ἐν οἷς ταὐτὰ ταῦτα ὀρθῶς ἐδόξαζον, ἀναγαγόντας δὲ τιθέναι παρὰ τὰ μήπω γιγνωσκόμενα, καὶ παραβάλλοντας ἐνδεικνύναι τὴν αὐτὴν ὁμοιότητα καὶ φύσιν ἐν ἀμφοτέραις οὖσαν ταῖς συμπλοκαῖς, μέχριπερ ἂν πᾶσι τοῖς ἀγνοουμένοις τὰ δοξαζόμενα ἀληθῶς παρατιθέμενα δειχθῇ, δειχθέντα δέ, παραδείγματα οὕτω γιγνόμενα, ποιήσῃ τῶν στοιχείων ἕκαστον πάντων ἐν πάσαις ταῖς συλλαβαῖς τὸ μὲν ἕτερον ὡς τῶν ἄλλων ἕτερον ὄν, τὸ δὲ ταὐτὸν ὡς ταὐτὸν ἀεὶ κατὰ ταὐτὰ ἑαυτῷ προσαγορεύεσθαι.
STRANGER: To lead them back first to those cases in which they were holding right opinions about these same things, and having led them back, to place these alongside what is not yet known, and by comparing them, to show that the same likeness and nature is present in both combinations, until all the unrecognized things are shown placed alongside those which are truly believed, and, being shown, and thus becoming examples, make each of all the elements in all the syllables be addressed, the different as being different from others, and the same as being always the same and identical with itself.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Absolutely indeed.
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν τοῦτο μὲν ἱκανῶς συνειλήφαμεν, ὅτι παραδείγματός γʼ ἐστὶ τότε γένεσις, ὁπόταν ὂν ταὐτὸν ἐν ἑτέρῳ διεσπασμένῳ δοξαζόμενον ὀρθῶς καὶ συναχθὲν περὶ ἑκάτερον ὡς συνάμφω μίαν ἀληθῆ δόξαν ἀποτελῇ;
STRANGER: Therefore, have we sufficiently grasped this: that the coming-into-being of an example occurs when that which is the same, being correctly believed in another distinct thing, and being brought together, produces one true opinion about each as both together?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. φαίνεται.
YOUNG SOCRATES: So it appears.
ΞΕ. θαυμάζοιμεν ἂν οὖν εἰ ταὐτὸν τοῦτο ἡμῶν ἡ ψυχὴ φύσει περὶ τὰ τῶν πάντων στοιχεῖα πεπονθυῖα τοτὲ μὲν ὑπʼ ἀληθείας περὶ ἓν ἕκαστον ἔν τισι συνίσταται, τοτὲ δὲ περὶ ἅπαντα ἐν ἑτέροις αὖ φέρεται, καὶ τὰ μὲν αὐτῶν ἁμῇ γέ πῃ τῶν συγκράσεων ὀρθῶς δοξάζει, μετατιθέμενα δʼ εἰς τὰς τῶν πραγμάτων μακρὰς καὶ μὴ ῥᾳδίους συλλαβὰς ταὐτὰ ταῦτα πάλιν ἀγνοεῖ;
STRANGER: Would we wonder then if our soul, having naturally experienced this very same thing regarding the elements of all things, at one time is established by truth concerning each single one in certain things, but at another time is carried away about all things in other cases, and on the one hand correctly believes some of their combinations in some way or other, but on the other hand, when these very same things are transposed into the long and difficult syllables of reality, is again ignorant of them?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ θαυμαστόν γε οὐδέν.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Indeed, not at all wonderful.
ΞΕ. πῶς γάρ, ὦ φίλε, δύναιτο ἄν τις ἀρχόμενος ἀπὸ δόξης ψευδοῦς ἐπί τι τῆς ἀληθείας καὶ μικρὸν μέρος ἀφικόμενος κτήσασθαι φρόνησιν;
STRANGER: For how, my friend, could anyone, starting from false opinion and arriving at some small part of truth, acquire wisdom?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. σχεδὸν οὐδαμῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Scarcely in any way.
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν ταῦτα εἰ ταύτῃ πέφυκεν, οὐδὲν δὴ πλημμελοῖμεν ἂν ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ πρῶτον μὲν ἐπιχειρήσαντες ὅλου παραδείγματος ἰδεῖν τὴν φύσιν ἐν σμικρῷ κατὰ μέρος ἄλλῳ παραδείγματι, μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα μέλλοντες, ἐπὶ τὸ τοῦ βασιλέως μέγιστον ὂν ταὐτὸν εἶδος ἀπʼ ἐλαττόνων φέροντές ποθεν, διὰ παραδείγματος ἐπιχειρεῖν αὖ τὴν τῶν κατὰ πόλιν θεραπείαν τέχνῃ γνωρίζειν, ἵνα ὕπαρ ἀντʼ ὀνείρατος ἡμῖν γίγνηται;
STRANGER: Therefore, if these things are naturally so, surely you and I would commit no error, first by attempting to see the nature of the example as a whole in a small particular other example, and after this, being about to bring the same form—which is greatest—of the king from smaller things somewhere, by attempting in turn to recognize the care of those in the city through an art by means of an example, so that a waking state instead of a dream may come about for us?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς.
YOUNG SOCRATES: Entirely correct indeed.