Humanitext Reader

Aristophanes · Wealth §460-523

The Debate Between Poverty and Chremylus

Passage 7 of 16 · Greek

Summary

Chremylus and Blepsidas engage in a heated debate with Poverty (Penia) regarding the benefits of restoring Plutus's sight. Poverty argues that she is the source of all human industry and warns that if everyone becomes rich, no one will work, but Chremylus remains unconvinced.

§460βλέψαι πάλιν;
to see again?
§460bτί οὖν ἀδικοῦμεν τοῦτό σε, §461εἰ πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποισιν ἐκπορίζομεν §462ἀγαθόν;
In what, then, do we wrong you in this, if we provide for all men a good?
§462bτί δʼ ἂν ὑμεῖς ἀγαθὸν ἐξεύροιθʼ;
And what good could you find?
§462cὅ τι;
What?
§463σὲ πρῶτον ἐκβαλόντες ἐκ τῆς Ἑλλάδος.
By first casting you out of Greece.
§464ἔμʼ ἐκβαλόντες;
Casting me out?
καὶ τί ἂν νομίζετον §465κακὸν ἐργάσασθαι μεῖζον ἀνθρώπους;
And what greater harm do you two think you would have done to mankind?
§465bὅ τι;
What?
§466εἰ τοῦτο δρᾶν μέλλοντες ἐπιλαθοίμεθα.
If, when about to do this, we should forget it.
§467καὶ μὴν περὶ τούτου σφῷν ἐθέλω δοῦναι λόγον §468τὸ πρῶτον αὐτοῦ·
And indeed, concerning this, I wish to give you two an explanation first of all.
κἂν μὲν ἀποφήνω μόνην §469ἀγαθῶν ἁπάντων οὖσαν αἰτίαν ἐμὲ §470ὑμῖν διʼ ἐμέ τε ζῶντας ὑμᾶς· εἰ δὲ μή, §471ποιεῖτον ἤδη τοῦθʼ ὅ τι ἂν ὑμῖν δοκῇ.
And if I show that I alone am the cause of all good things to you, and that you live because of me; but if not, do then immediately whatever seems good to you.
§472ταυτὶ σὺ τολμᾷς ὦ μιαρωτάτη λέγειν;
Do you dare to say these things, you most abominable woman?
§473καὶ σύ γε διδάσκου·
And you, be instructed!
πάνυ γὰρ οἶμαι ῥᾳδίως §474ἅπανθʼ ἁμαρτάνοντά σʼ ἀποδείξειν ἐγώ, §475εἰ τοὺς δικαίους φῂς ποιήσειν πλουσίους.
For I think I shall very easily show that you are entirely mistaken, if you say that you will make the just rich.
§476ὦ τύμπανα καὶ κύφωνες οὐκ ἀρήξετε;
O executioners' drums and pillories, will you not come to help?
§477οὐ δεῖ σχετλιάζειν καὶ βοᾶν πρὶν ἂν μάθῃς.
There is no need to complain and shout before you learn.
§478καὶ τίς δύναιτʼ ἂν μὴ βοᾶν ἰοὺ ἰοὺ
And who could help shouting 'Alas!
§479τοιαῦτʼ ἀκούων;
Alas!' on hearing such things?
§479bὅστις ἐστὶν εὖ φρονῶν.
Anyone who is of sound mind.
§480τί δῆτά σοι τίμημʼ ἐπιγράψω τῇ δίκῃ, §481ἐὰν ἁλῷς;
What penalty, then, shall I write down for your trial, if you are convicted?
§481bὅ τι σοι δοκεῖ.
Whatever seems good to you.
§481cκαλῶς λέγεις.
Well said.
§482τὸ γὰρ αὔτʼ, ἐὰν ἡττᾶσθε, καὶ σφὼ δεῖ παθεῖν.
For the very same, if you two are defeated, you also must suffer.
§483ἱκανοὺς νομίζεις δῆτα θανάτους εἴκοσιν;
Do you think twenty deaths are sufficient then?
§484ταύτῃ γε· νῷν δὲ δὔ ἀποχρήσουσιν μόνω.
For her, yes; but for us two, only two will suffice.
§485οὐκ ἂν φθάνοιτον τοῦτο πράττοντʼ, ἢ τί γʼ ἂν §486ἔχοι τις ἂν δίκαιον ἀντειπεῖν ἔτι;
You two cannot be too quick in doing this; or what indeed could anyone have to say in reply that is just?
§487ἀλλʼ ἤδη χρῆν τι λέγειν ὑμᾶς σοφὸν ᾧ νικήσετε τηνδὶ §488ἐν τοῖσι λόγοις ἀντιλέγοντες, μαλακὸν δʼ ἐνδώσετε μηδέν.
But now you must say something wise by which you will conquer this woman by speaking in opposition in arguments, and show no weakness.
§489φανερὸν μὲν ἔγωγʼ οἶμαι γνῶναι τοῦτʼ εἶναι πᾶσιν ὁμοίως, §490ὅτι τοὺς χρηστοὺς τῶν ἀνθρώπων εὖ πράττειν ἐστὶ δίκαιον, §491τοὺς δὲ πονηροὺς καὶ τοὺς ἀθέους τούτων τἀναντία δήπου.
I think it is clear for all alike to know this, that it is just for the good among men to fare well, and for the wicked and impious to experience the opposite, surely.
§492τοῦτʼ οὖν ἡμεῖς ἐπιθυμοῦντες μόλις ηὕρομεν, ὥστε γενέσθαι §493βούλευμα καλὸν καὶ γενναῖον καὶ χρήσιμον εἰς ἅπαν ἔργον.
Desiring this, we have with difficulty found a way to achieve a plan that is beautiful, noble, and useful for every deed.
§494ἢν γὰρ ὁ Πλοῦτος νυνὶ βλέψῃ καὶ μὴ τυφλὸς ὢν περινοστῇ, §495ὡς τοὺς ἀγαθοὺς τῶν ἀνθρώπων βαδιεῖται κοὐκ ἀπολείψει, §496τοὺς δὲ πονηροὺς καὶ τοὺς ἀθέους φευξεῖται· κᾆτα ποιήσει §497πάντας χρηστοὺς καὶ πλουτοῦντας δήπου τά τε θεῖα σέβοντας.
For if Plutus should now see and not go about blind, he will go to the good among men and will not leave them, and he will flee the wicked and impious; and then he will make everyone honest, rich, and surely revering the divine things.
§498καίτοι τούτου τοῖς ἀνθρώποις τίς ἂν ἐξεύροι ποτʼ ἄμεινον;
And yet, what better thing than this could anyone ever find for men?
§499οὐδείς·
No one!
τούτου μάρτυς ἐγώ σοι· μηδὲν ταύτην γʼ ἀνερώτα.
I am your witness for this; do not ask her at all.
§500ὡς μὲν γὰρ νῦν ἡμῖν ὁ βίος τοῖς ἀνθρώποις διάκειται, §501τίς ἂν οὐχ ἡγοῖτʼ εἶναι μανίαν κακοδαιμονίαν τʼ ἔτι μᾶλλον;
For as life is now arranged for us men, who would not consider it madness, and even more, misery?
§502πολλοὶ μὲν γὰρ τῶν ἀνθρώπων ὄντες πλουτοῦσι πονηροί, §503ἀδίκως αὐτὰ ξυλλεξάμενοι· πολλοὶ δʼ ὄντες πάνυ χρηστοὶ §504πράττουσι κακῶς καὶ πεινῶσιν μετὰ σοῦ τε τὰ πλεῖστα σύνεισιν.
For many of men, being wicked, are rich, having gathered those things unjustly; while many, being very honest, fare badly and starve, and live with you for the most part.
§505οὔκουν εἶναί φημʼ, εἰ παύσει ταύτην βλέψας ποθʼ ὁ Πλοῦτος, §506ὁδὸν ἥντινʼ ἰὼν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἀγάθʼ ἄν μείζω πορίσειεν.
Therefore I say there is not, if Plutus should ever see and stop this, any road going along which he could provide greater goods to men.
§507ἀλλʼ ὦ πάντων ῥᾷστʼ ἀνθρώπων ἀναπεισθέντʼ οὐχ ὑγιαίνειν §508δύο πρεσβύτα, ξυνθιασώτα τοῦ ληρεῖν καὶ παραπαίειν, §509εἰ τοῦτο γένοιθʼ ὃ ποθεῖθʼ ὑμεῖς, οὔ φημʼ ἂν λυσιτελεῖν σφῷν.
But, O you two of all men most easily persuaded not to be of sound mind, two old men, fellow-members of the guild of nonsense and madness, if this should happen which you desire, I say it would not benefit you two.
§510εἰ γὰρ ὁ Πλοῦτος βλέψειε πάλιν διανείμειέν τʼ ἴσον αὑτόν, §511οὔτε τέχνην ἂν τῶν ἀνθρώπων οὔτʼ ἂν σοφίαν μελετῴη §512οὐδείς· ἀμφοῖν δʼ ὑμῖν τούτοιν ἀφανισθέντοιν ἐθελήσει §513τίς χαλκεύειν ἢ ναυπηγεῖν ἢ ῥάπτειν ἢ τροχοποιεῖν, §514ἢ σκυτοτομεῖν ἢ πλινθουργεῖν ἢ πλύνειν ἢ σκυλοδεψεῖν, §515ἢ γῆς ἀρότροις ῥήξας δάπεδον καρπὸν Δηοῦς θερίσασθαι, §516ἢν ἐξῇ ζῆν ἀργοῖς ὑμῖν πάντων ἀμελοῦσιν;
For if Plutus should see again and distribute himself equally, neither would any of men practice any craft nor any wisdom anyone; and when both of these have vanished for you, who will wish to work metal, or build ships, or sew, or make wheels, or mend shoes, or make bricks, or wash, or tan hides, or, cleaving the soil of the earth with plows, to harvest the fruit of Deo, if it is permitted for you to live idle, neglecting everything?
§517λῆρον ληρεῖς.
You talk nonsense!
ταῦτα γὰρ ἡμῖν πάνθʼ ὅσα νῦν δὴ κατέλεξας §518οἱ θεράποντες μοχθήσουσιν.
For all these things which you have just listed our slaves will toil to do for us.
§518bπόθεν οὖν ἕξεις θεράποντας;
From where then will you have slaves?
§519ὠνησόμεθʼ ἀργυρίου δήπου.
We will buy them for silver, surely.
§519bτίς δʼ ἔσται πρῶτον ὁ πωλῶν, §520ὅταν ἀργύριον κἀκεῖνος ἔχῃ;
But who will first be the seller, when he also has silver?
§520bκερδαίνειν βουλόμενός τις §521ἔμπορος ἥκων ἐκ Θετταλίας παρὰ πλείστων ἀνδραποδιστῶν.
Someone wishing to make a profit, a merchant coming from Thessaly from the most numerous slave-dealers.
§522ἀλλʼ οὐδʼ ἔσται πρῶτον ἁπάντων οὐδεὶς οὐδʼ ἀνδραποδιστὴς §523κατὰ τὸν λόγον ὃν σὺ λέγεις δήπου.
But there will not first of all be even any slave-dealer, according to the argument you speak of, surely.
τίς γὰρ πλουτῶν ἐθελήσει
For who, being rich, will wish

Notes

  1. §464τί ἂν νομίζετον κακὸν ἐργάσασθαι — The particle ἄν goes with the infinitive ἐργάσασθαι, giving a potential force ("would have done" or "would do") to the indirect discourse dependent on the main verb νομίζετον (second-person dual).
  2. §485οὐκ ἂν φθάνοιτον τοῦτο πράττοντʼ — The idiom "οὐκ ἂν φθάνοιμι" with a present participle (here the dual πράττοντε) literally means "you cannot be too quick in doing this," and is used as an idiomatic expression to mean "do this at once" or "lose no time in doing this."
  3. §505οὔκουν εἶναί φημʼ — The accusative noun ὁδόν in the following line (§506) serves as the subject of the existential infinitive εἶναι, dependent on φημί (forming the construction οὔκουν εἶναι [ὁδόν] φημι). The insertion of the conditional clause (εἰ παύσει...) causes a hyperbaton, postponing the subject to the very end of the sentence.

Cite this passage

Aristophanes, Wealth §460-523. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0019.tlg011.humanitext-grc2:460-523

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