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Aristophanes · The Frogs §947b-1026

Debate on the Educational Role of Poets

Passage 12 of 18 · Greek

Summary

Euripides claims that his tragedies taught citizens rational thinking and daily wisdom, which Dionysus agrees with. In response, Aeschylus argues that a poet's mission is to raise brave and noble citizens, explaining how his own plays inspired the Athenians' warlike spirit.

§947bκρεῖττον γὰρ ἦν σοι νὴ Δίʼ ἢ τὸ σαυτοῦ.
AESCHYLUS: By Zeus, that would have been better for you than to speak of your own lineage.
§948ἔπειτʼ ἀπὸ τῶν πρώτων ἐπῶν οὐδὲν παρῆκʼ ἂν ἀργόν, §949ἀλλʼ ἔλεγεν ἡ γυνή τέ μοι χὠ δοῦλος οὐδὲν ἧττον, §950χὠ δεσπότης χἠ παρθένος χἠ γραῦς ἄν.
EURIPIDES: Then, from the very first verses, I would leave nothing idle, but the woman would speak for me, and the slave no less, and the master, and the maiden, and the old woman too.
§950bεἶτα δῆτα §951οὐκ ἀποθανεῖν σε ταῦτʼ ἐχρῆν τολμῶντα;
DIONYSUS: Then surely, shouldn't you have been put to death for daring such things?
§951bμὰ τὸν Ἀπόλλω·
EURIPIDES: By Apollo, no!
§952δημοκρατικὸν γὰρ αὔτʼ ἔδρων.
For I was doing it in a democratic way.
§952bτοῦτο μὲν ἔασον ὦ τᾶν.
DIONYSUS: Let that subject be, my good friend.
§953οὐ σοὶ γάρ ἐστι περίπατος κάλλιστα περί γε τούτου.
For that is not the finest walk of argument for you.
§954ἔπειτα τουτουσὶ λαλεῖν ἐδίδαξα— §954bφημὶ κἀγώ.
EURIPIDES: Next, I taught these people to chatter— AESCHYLUS: I agree!
§955ὡς πρὶν διδάξαι γʼ ὤφελες μέσος διαρραγῆναι.
And I wish you had burst in the middle before you taught them.
§956λεπτῶν τε κανόνων ἐσβολὰς ἐπῶν τε γωνιασμούς, §957νοεῖν ὁρᾶν ξυνιέναι στρέφειν ἐρᾶν τεχνάζειν, §958κάχʼ ὑποτοπεῖσθαι, περινοεῖν ἅπαντα— §958bφημὶ κἀγώ.
EURIPIDES:...and the introductions of subtle rules and cornerings of words, to think, to see, to understand, to twist, to love, to scheme, to suspect evil, to think around everything— AESCHYLUS: I agree!
§959οἰκεῖα πράγματʼ εἰσάγων, οἷς χρώμεθʼ,οἷς ξύνεσμεν,
EURIPIDES:...by introducing household affairs, which we use, which we live with, by which I could be tested.
§960ἐξ ὧν γʼ ἂν ἐξηλεγχόμην· ξυνειδότες γὰρ οὗτοι §961ἤλεγχον ἄν μου τὴν τέχνην·
For these people, knowing them well, would have tested my art.
ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐκομπολάκουν §962ἀπὸ τοῦ φρονεῖν ἀποσπάσας, οὐδʼ ἐξέπληττον αὐτούς, §963Κύκνους ποιῶν καὶ Μέμνονας κωδωνοφαλαροπώλους.
But I did not bluster, snatching them away from their senses, nor did I strike them with awe, making Cycnuses and Memnons with horses wearing bells and cheek-plates.
§964γνώσει δὲ τοὺς τούτου τε κἀμοὺς ἑκατέρου μαθητάς.
And you will know the disciples of each of us—his and mine.
§965τουτουμενὶ Φορμίσιος Μεγαίνετός θʼ ὁ Μανῆς, §966σαλπιγγολογχυπηνάδαι, σαρκασμοπιτυοκάμπται, §967οὑμοὶ δὲ Κλειτοφῶν τε καὶ Θηραμένης ὁ κομψός.
His are Phormisius and Megainetus the slave, trumpet-lance-whiskered ones, sneering-pine-benders; while mine are Cleitophon and the elegant Theramenes.
§968Θηραμένης;
DIONYSUS: Theramenes?
σοφός γʼ ἀνὴρ καὶ δεινὸς ἐς τὰ πάντα, §969ὃς ἢν κακοῖς που περιπέσῃ καὶ πλησίον παραστῇ, §970πέπτωκεν ἔξω τῶν κακῶν, οὐ Χῖος ἀλλὰ Κεῖος.
A wise man indeed and clever in all things, who, if he ever falls into trouble and stands close to it, slips out of the trouble, not a Chian but a Cean.
§971τοιαῦτα μέντοὐγὼ φρονεῖν §972τούτοισιν εἰσηγησάμην, §973λογισμὸν ἐνθεὶς τῇ τέχνῃ §974καὶ σκέψιν, ὥστʼ ἤδη νοεὶν §975ἅπαντα καὶ διειδέναι §976τά τʼ ἄλλα καὶ τὰς οἰκίας §977οἰκεῖν ἄμεινον ἢ πρὸ τοῦ §978κἀνασκοπεῖν, πῶς τοῦτʼ ἔχει; §979ποῦ μοι τοδί; τίς τοῦτʼ ἔλαβε;
EURIPIDES: Such indeed were the ways of thinking I introduced to these people, putting reasoning and examination into my art, so that they now understand all things and discern other matters, and especially manage their households better than before, and look into things: "How is this?" "Where is that thing of mine?
§980νὴ τοὺς θεοὺς νῦν γοῦν Ἀθηναίων §981ἅπας τις εἰσιὼν §982κέκραγε πρὸς τοὺς οἰκέτας §983ζητεῖ τε, ποῦ ʼστιν ἡ χύτρα;
Who took this?" DIONYSUS: By the gods, now at least every Athenian, when he enters, yells at the servants and searches: "Where is the pot?
§984τίς τὴν κεφαλὴν ἀπεδήδοκεν §985τῆς μαινίδος;
Who has eaten off the head of the sprat?
τὸ τρύβλιον §986τὸ περυσινὸν τέθνηκέ μοι·
My dish of last year is broken!
§987ποῦ τὸ σκόροδον τὸ χθιζινόν;
Where is the garlic of yesterday?
§988τίς τῆς ἐλάας παρέτραγεν; §989τέως δʼ ἀβελτερώτατοι §990κεχηνότες Μαμμάκυθοι §991Μελιτίδαι καθῆντο.
Who gnawed at the olive?" But before this, they used to sit like the most stupid, gaping blockheads and simpletons.
§992τάδε μὲν λεύσσεις φαίδιμʼ Ἀχιλλεῦ· §993σὺ δὲ τί φέρε πρὸς ταῦτα λέξεις;
CHORUS: You see these things, glorious Achilles; but come, what will you say to this?
§994μόνον ὅπως §994aμή σʼ ὁ θυμὸς ἁρπάσας §995ἐκτὸς οἴσει τῶν ἐλαῶν·
Only take care that your anger, snatching you away, does not carry you outside the olives.
§996δεινὰ γὰρ κατηγόρηκεν.
For he has made terrible accusations.
§997ἀλλʼ ὅπως ὦ γεννάδα §998μὴ πρὸς ὀργὴν ἀντιλέξεις, §999ἀλλὰ συστείλας ἄκροισι §1000χρώμενος τοῖς ἱστίοις, §1001εἶτα μᾶλλον μᾶλλον ἄξεις §1002καὶ φυλάξεις, §1003ἡνίκʼ ἂν τὸ πνεῦμα λεῖον §1003aκαὶ καθεστηκὸς λάβῃς.
But, noble sir, see to it that you do not reply in anger, but furling your sails and using only their edges, then you will guide your ship more and more and keep watch for when you receive a smooth and steady breeze.
§1004ἀλλʼ ὦ πρῶτος τῶν Ἑλλήνων πυργώσας ῥήματα σεμνὰ §1005καὶ κοσμήσας τραγικὸν λῆρον, θαρρῶν τὸν κρουνὸν ἀφίει.
But, O you who first of the Greeks built up majestic words and adorned tragic nonsense, take courage and let loose your torrent.
§1006θυμοῦμαι μὲν τῇ ξυντυχίᾳ, καὶ μου τὰ σπλάγχνʼ ἀγανακτεῖ,
AESCHYLUS: I am angry at this turn of events, and my inwards are vexed that I must argue against this fellow.
§1007εἰ πρὸς τοῦτον δεῖ μʼ ἀντιλέγειν· ἵνα μὴ φάσκῃ δʼ ἀπορεῖν με, §1008ἀπόκριναί μοι, τίνος οὕνεκα χρὴ θαυμάζειν ἄνδρα ποιητήν;
But so that he may not say I am at a loss, answer me: for what reason should one admire a poet?
§1009δεξιότητος καὶ νουθεσίας, ὅτι βελτίους τε ποιοῦμεν §1010τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν.
EURIPIDES: For cleverness and advice, because we make people better in their cities.
§1010bτοῦτʼ οὖν εἰ μὴ πεποίηκας, §1011ἀλλʼ ἐκ χρηστῶν καὶ γενναίων μοχθηροτάτους ἀπέδειξας, §1012τί παθεῖν φήσεις ἄξιος εἶναι;
AESCHYLUS: If, then, you have not done this, but instead of good and noble men you have turned them into the most wretched rascals, what do you say you deserve to suffer?
§1012bτεθνάναι·
DIONYSUS: Death!
μὴ τοῦτον ἐρώτα.
Don't ask him.
§1013σκέψαι τοίνυν οἵους αὐτοὺς παρʼ ἐμοῦ παρεδέξατο πρῶτον, §1014εἰ γενναίους καὶ τετραπήχεις, καὶ μὴ διαδρασιπολίτας, §1015μηδʼ ἀγοραίους μηδὲ κοβάλους ὥσπερ νῦν μηδὲ πανούργους, §1016ἀλλὰ πνέοντας δόρυ καὶ λόγχας καὶ λευκολόφους τρυφαλείας §1017καὶ πήληκας καὶ κνημῖδας καὶ θυμοὺς ἑπταβοείους.
AESCHYLUS: Consider then what kind of men he first received from me, if they were noble and four cubits tall, and not shirkers of public duty, nor loafers in the marketplace, nor rascals like now, nor knaves, but breathing spears and lances and white-crested helmets, and skullcaps and greaves, and seven-fold-oxhide spirits.
§1018καὶ δὴ χωρεῖ τουτὶ τὸ κακόν· κρανοποιῶν αὖ μʼ ἐπιτρίψει.
DIONYSUS: And here indeed comes the trouble; he will crush me again with his helmet-making.
§1019καὶ τί σὺ δράσας οὕτως αὐτοὺς γενναίους ἐξεδίδαξας;
But by doing what did you so train them to be noble?
§1020Αἰσχύλε λέξον, μηδʼ αὐθάδως σεμνυνόμενος χαλέπαινε.
Tell us, Aeschylus, and do not be cross with stubborn pride.
§1021δρᾶμα ποιήσας Ἄρεως μεστόν.
AESCHYLUS: By composing a play full of Ares.
§1021bποῖον;
DIONYSUS: Which one?
§1021cτοὺς ἕπτʼ ἐπὶ Θήβας· §1022ὃ θεασάμενος πᾶς ἄν τις ἀνὴρ ἠράσθη δάιος εἶναι.
AESCHYLUS: "Seven Against Thebes"; which every man who beheld it fell in love with being warlike.
§1023τουτὶ μέν σοι κακὸν εἴργασται· Θηβαίους γὰρ πεποίηκας §1024ἀνδρειοτέρους ἐς τὸν πόλεμον, καὶ τούτου γʼ οὕνεκα τύπτου.
DIONYSUS: That indeed was a bad thing you did; for you made the Thebans braver for war, and for that at least, you should be beaten!
§1025ἀλλʼ ὑμῖν αὔτʼ ἐξῆν ἀσκεῖν, ἀλλʼ οὐκ ἐπὶ τοῦτʼ ἐτράπεσθε.
AESCHYLUS: But it was open to you to practice it, but you did not turn to this.
§1026εἶτα διδάξας Πέρσας μετὰ τοῦτʼ ἐπιθυμεῖν ἐξεδίδαξα
Then, by producing "The Persians" after that, I taught them to desire...

Notes

  1. 947bκρεῖττον γὰρ ἦν σοι νὴ Δίʼ ἢ τὸ σαυτοῦ. — In contrast to the preceding phrase τοῦ δράματος τὸ γένος (the lineage of the drama), γένος is omitted in τὸ σαυτοῦ (γένος) (your own lineage), poking fun at Euripides' reputedly low birth. The imperfect indicative ἦν without ἄν expresses an unfulfilled past potential ("it would have been better for you").
  2. 951οὐκ ἀποθανεῖν σε ταῦτʼ ἐχρῆν τολμῶντα; — The past form of the impersonal verb ἐχρῆν (one ought to have, but did not) takes an accusative with infinitive (A.C.I.) construction. The accusative participle τολμῶντα agrees with the subject of the infinitive, σε, and functions adverbially ("for daring such things").
  3. 955ὤφελες μέσος διαρραγῆναι — The second aorist second-person singular ὤφελες (from ὀφείλω) with the passive aorist infinitive διαρραγῆναι expresses an unattainable past wish ("would that you had burst"). The adjective μέσος agrees with the subject and functions predicatively ("in the middle" or "in half").
  4. 970οὐ Χῖος ἀλλὰ Κεῖος — A wordplay on "not a Chian but a Cean." "Chian" (Chios) was associated with the lowest throw of the dice, while "Cean" (Ceos) was associated with the highest (representing political versatility). It satirizes Theramenes' notorious ability to change sides depending on the political situation (earning him the nickname "Cothurnus").
  5. 1016πνέοντας δόρυ καὶ λόγχας — The verb πνέω (to breathe), which usually takes an accusative of what is breathed out, here takes δόρυ (spear) and λόγχας (lances) to express the figurative meaning of "breathing" or "radiating" martial spirit and warlike energy.

Cite this passage

Aristophanes, The Frogs §947b-1026. Humanitext Reader, https://reader.humanitext.ai/en/text/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0019.tlg009.humanitext-grc2:947b-1026

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